#dev 2019-08-27

2019-08-27 UTC
qotta, cannabysDiscord[ and gRegorLove joined the channel
#
Loqi gRegorLove: jgmac1106 left you a message on 2019-07-18 at 5:21pm UTC: made some progress on my ideas for an IndieWeb 101 lesson: https://buildyourfirstwebsitelessonplans.glitch.me/
#
Loqi gRegorLove: [jgmac1106] left you a message on 2019-07-16 at 10:33am UTC: maybe add a date field to indieboookclub.biz so people can publish backdated post
#
gRegorLove Yeah, the iCalendar spec says "MUST NOT" use UTC offsets https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-3-5-date-time.html
[j12t] and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] Wow that TZID format!!!!!
[jeremycherfas] joined the channel
#
[jeremycherfas] Fantastical does a pretty good job of displaying local times if it has a Timezone specified. Never had to try and schedule in another Timezone around appointments in a third.
#
aaronpk hmm, 21 day free trial
#
Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-09-05 11:19pm PDT (#6638)
#
aaronpk 10 days until remind aaronpk to start the trial of fantastical
#
aaronpk i'm gonna be in this timezone for over a week, but then I will be hopping many timezones again, so I can test it out
#
[jeremycherfas] I think there is an API too that you could probably make sing and dance.
gRegorLove, cweiske and [Michael_Beckwit joined the channel
#
@tw2113 @sonniesedge sorry for possible multiple webmentions POST request on your latest React post. It inspired me to write a quick blurb, but I got the webmention part wrong initially. (twitter.com/_/status/1166242382863642625)
#
@sonniesedge ↩️ @tw2113 Thank you for using webmentions! (twitter.com/_/status/1166243613766029312)
#
@JamieTanna ↩️ The great thing is that you can write it into your Micropub server about whether you want it syndicated as well as being able to use something like http://brid.gy to syndicate content (doesn't look like it supports Mastodon yet, but code is Open Source!) (twitter.com/_/status/1166245095030611968)
gRegorLove, jeremych_, [prtksxna], jgmac1106, [KevinMarks] and bupkes joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] React >> many levels of criticism https://www.sonniesedge.net/posts/react/
#
sknebel Arrow wrong way around
#
[KevinMarks] React << many levels of criticism https://www.sonniesedge.net/posts/react/
#
Loqi ok, I added "many levels of criticism https://www.sonniesedge.net/posts/react/" to the "See Also" section of /React https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=64665&oldid=58560
[jgarber], [manton], jujudario, [schmarty] and [snarfed] joined the channel
#
@schnarfed ↩️ @janboddez @JamieTanna cool! btw https://fed.brid.gy/ is the alternative to https://brid.gy/ that supports mastodon (twitter.com/_/status/1166366569506603010)
[KevinMarks], jackjamieson, gxt, gRegorLove and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] charlie++ for https://sonniesedge.co.uk/posts/react/
#
Loqi charlie has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
#
aaronpk yeah that was a good read
#
[snarfed] aaronpk kevinmarks example in-reply-to in granary atom: <thr:in-reply-to ref="tag:twitter.com:1166255208269262848" href="https://twitter.com/janboddez/status/1166255208269262848" type="text/html" />
#
@janboddez @JamieTanna Fun fact: I’m already syndicating outward, to my “main” Mastodon account, and, eventually, to Twitter. (Do I somehow _like_ these quirky, needlessly convoluted setups?) Micropub makes so much more sense! (twitter.com/_/status/1166255208269262848)
#
[snarfed] (reply tweet i converted is https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/1166366569506603010 )
#
@schnarfed @janboddez @JamieTanna cool! btw https://fed.brid.gy/ is the alternative to https://brid.gy/ that supports mastodon (twitter.com/_/status/1166366569506603010)
#
aaronpk oh gosh
#
aaronpk gonna put me in namespace hell again
#
[snarfed] lol sorry. i'm not asking you to support it. just saying it's there
#
aaronpk every time i have to extract an element from an xml file that is namespaced it takes me like 3 hours fighting with the particular xml library i am using at the time
#
[tantek] and that's why all those Atom extensions got pretty close to zero uptake
#
[tantek] namespaces are how you kill the extensibility of a format
#
[tantek] [KevinMarks] when you say you "can do something in Atom", I'm gonna start asking for citations of *anyone* / *anything* actually consuming (codewise) that something
#
aaronpk for real
#
[tantek] there's a lot of theoretical handwaving proposals for doing things in Atom that never got any ecosystem uptake, so they're all just proposal-ware, and IMO do not meet the bar for "can do something"
#
[tantek] if you'd like to rephrase to "you can experiment with this something in Atom" that would be more accurate and transparent
#
[KevinMarks] Don't make me dig out the opensocial apis
#
[tantek] which are all now dead
#
[tantek] actually consuming (codewise) that something *now* *live* *on the web*
#
[tantek] note that I asked for an actual thing that does the consuming, not another API layer on the abstraction sandwich
[bdesham] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] aaronpk btw re likes, i'm not sure what you mean, since granary silo => mf2 generally doesn't include a post's likes either
#
aaronpk oh yeah, just reposts i guess
#
aaronpk i was thinking following what someone has liked, but i guess i only see that when i'm following someone's website directly
#
[tantek] double-checks his Atom feed
#
[snarfed] to close the loop, for reposts, granary atom uses the AS1 namespace, http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/
#
[snarfed] example:
#
[snarfed] <activity:verb>http://activitystrea.ms/schema/1.0/share</activity:verb>
#
[snarfed] <activity:object>https://twitter.com/monikabielskyte/status/1166162022846713856</activity:object>
#
@monikabielskyte So... I am actually working on #ProtopianFutures documentary show/series. Who are the people around the world that embody Protopian thinking/doing today that you think we should interview? Who could be the best partners in this journey? Share it away & let’s make it happen ✨🐉 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EC8KLTAUcAEZ6AO.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1166162022846713856)
#
aaronpk so i guess my next question then is how on earth do I know any of this? i didn't see any docs
#
[snarfed] true! the output atom format isn't documented. sorry 🙁
#
aaronpk i guess if i can test it on granary (it's easier to get an example out of granary) and know that it will work on twitter-atom, that's something
#
[snarfed] i would discourage reader authors from custom supporting or otherwise special casing granary in any case, for obvious reasons, but yes, https://granary.readthedocs.io/ should definitely have more detail on output formats!
[vendan] and nloadholtes joined the channel
#
[tantek] Progress! I've updated the markup on my most recent event post (last week's HWC SF) such that it now works via H2VX to create an ICS that gets added to Apple Calendar!
#
[tantek] https://tantek.com/2019/233/e1/homebrew-website-club-sf
#
[tantek] now the hard part, to design what the "Add to calendar" link should look like and where to put it
#
[schmarty] lol i was just looking for that add to calendar link about to ask where it was
#
[tantek] one step at a time. fixing the markup so it works with H2VX to produce ICS that Apple Calendar can actually consume was task in itself!
#
[schmarty] yeah that is pretty rad!
#
[schmarty] i'm not sure how best to fix my current Add to Calendar ics implementation
#
[tantek] [schmarty] did you document anywhere how your "Add to Google Calendar" link is generated / how it works?
#
[schmarty] i like having correct timezones but i absolutely do not want to have all these tz names
#
[tantek] (or do I have to reverse engineer it 😭)
#
[tantek] yeah tznames--
#
Loqi tznames has -2 karma over the last year
#
[tantek] did someone way somewhere that tz offsets were forbidden?!?
#
[schmarty] yeah gRegorLove pointed to the spec and they are indeed forbidden
#
[schmarty] you can specify floating events w/ no timezone, fixed events with `Z`, or add a timezone with a very unixy `TZID=America/New_York;2019-...`
#
[tantek] ugh wat
#
[schmarty] here's the link again: https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-3-5-date-time.html
#
aaronpk i guess that's one way to avoid the daylight savings time problem
#
[schmarty] lol looks like i typo'd twice in my fake example above. colon (not semi-) and no dashes in a datetime string.
#
[tantek] wow. that's pretty idiotic.
#
[tantek] it doesn't avoid the DST problem, it makes you depend on the DST problem to pick a static timezone
#
aaronpk "avoid"
#
aaronpk more like "make it not our problem"
#
aaronpk lol
#
[tantek] yeah
#
[tantek] hmm, then we might need to patch that in H2VX
#
[tantek] make it do the tz offset math conversion to Z
#
[tantek] (right now H2VX is happy to pass through datetimes with tzoffsets, which then breaks Apple Calendar)
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
[tantek] or maybe this is a won't fix. the prospect of doing tzoffset to Z math in XSLT is not good
#
[tantek] I suppose we could put in a warning or something so people at least know their ICS won't work
#
[tantek] anyway the consequence of that is that my events will all have floating times for the forseeable future
#
[tantek] because ICS made tz handling too ugly, "have all these tz names" etc.
#
[tantek] after I get "Add to Calendar" link(s) working on my event permalink(s), I have to rethink/redesign the POSSE tweet version of events to include similar add to calendar links
#
[schmarty] tantek: looks like i didn't capture how i constructed the Google Calendar URLs
#
[schmarty] i vaguely recall reverse-engineering others' examples
#
[tantek] ok I'll that to the list 😂
#
[schmarty] this looks pretty close: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10488831/link-to-add-to-google-calendar#21653600
#
[tantek] what is Add to calendar
#
Loqi Add to Calendar is a common button or menu option shown on event user interfaces that a user can click to add the event to their calendaring program; consider putting an "✚🗓 Add to Calendar" button your indie event posts as an easy way for your readers to keep track of your event in their calendar https://indieweb.org/Add_to_Calendar
#
[tantek] Add to calendar << How to generate a Google Calendar link to add an event: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10488831/link-to-add-to-google-calendar#21653600
#
Loqi ok, I added "How to generate a Google Calendar link to add an event: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10488831/link-to-add-to-google-calendar#21653600" to the "See Also" section of /Add_to_Calendar https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=64673&oldid=64657
#
[tantek] [schmarty]++ thanks! will try that!
#
[schmarty] can someone give the iCal link on this page a try? http://localhost:1313/2019/07/27/musical-improv-level-1-showcase/
#
[tantek] not my localhost 🙂
#
[schmarty] lol oops
#
[schmarty] i meant this one https://martymcgui.re/2019/07/27/musical-improv-level-1-showcase/
#
[schmarty] specifically interested if iCal is happy with it now
[Lewis_Cowles] joined the channel
#
[Lewis_Cowles] I'll check it on a mac
#
[Lewis_Cowles] sunday 28th 0100 BST?
#
[Lewis_Cowles] html escape is showing up
#
[Lewis_Cowles] &rsquo;
#
[schmarty] the fact that it loaded at all is a big improvement. previously i had datetimes with UTC offsets which (per earlier discussion) is an iCal nono
#
[schmarty] thanks for looking at it!
#
[Lewis_Cowles] NP, I made a government app using ical many moons ago. It's not the most fun format
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
[Lewis_Cowles] IT's the wrong day for some reason too
[jgarber] joined the channel
#
[Lewis_Cowles] nope it's just me mistaking 8am for 8pm
eli_oat, cweiske and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Do you use the source stuff in Atom for reposts, [snarfed]?
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] [KevinMarks] probably not? just AS1
#
[snarfed] i'm not familiar with the "source stuff"
#
[KevinMarks] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.11
#
[snarfed] ah interesting. looks useful! except it evidently requires an atom id for the source, which i don't have, but i could fabricate
#
[KevinMarks] You can use the url as an id I think
#
[snarfed] true!
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] I know people do mung them into guids, but it says IRI
[jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
@jackyalcine ↩️ I wish I could do the reverse on Twitter: post into a bucket / list that people could follow. I can do that on my own site thanks to IndieWeb / Microsub logic. (twitter.com/_/status/1166457910865457152)
#
[snarfed] sounds like a hashtag
bob1 and [tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] TIL: You can be denied entry to the US based on your *friends* posts on social media: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/harvard-university-student-lebanon-denied-entry-united-states-n1046831
#
[tantek] "asked … to unlock his phone and laptop… . When an immigration officer returned with his phone and laptop about five hours later, he was questioned about his friends' social media activity"
#
[tantek] I intended that for the main #indieweb channel
#
[tantek] snarfed, like a reader-opt-in hashtag
#
[tantek] whereas hashtags by default are opt-out at best (you can mute specific hashtags on Twitter)
#
[KevinMarks] A tag on your blog is your posts about the topic. A tag on twitter is everyone's
#
[snarfed] ugh instagram blocked my bridgy proxy's IP
shrysr joined the channel
#
aaronpk that was fast
#
[snarfed] yup
jackjamieson joined the channel
#
[tantek] hence the question about rotation
#
[snarfed] oh yeah, i understood it. i just didn't need to last time, so i hoped i wouldn't need to this time
#
[snarfed] (i also don't really have a big block of available IPv4 IPs to rotate between)
qotta, [jgmac1106] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
jgmac1106[m] grantcodes++ for adding his site as example
#
Loqi grantcodes has 30 karma in this channel over the last year (47 in all channels)
KartikPrabhu joined the channel