#dev 2019-09-04

2019-09-04 UTC
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[fluffy] you’ll probably be “happy” to know that some of the stuff at the day job I’ mleaving actually does to REST “properly” in that it makes use of verbs like DELETE and whatever
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[fluffy] well okay just DELETE
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[fluffy] no PUT or PATCH
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Ruxton [07:35:36] nobody follows REST properly anyway <-- broad generalisation, correctly verbed REST API's are some of the most well-made APIs in existence.
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aaronpk That wasn't my argument ;-)
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dansup Pixelfed now has location tagging! https://staging.pixelfed.net/discover/places
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[KevinMarks] PUT and PATCH are dangerous
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dansup [KevinMarks]: how so?
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[KevinMarks] They require callers to fully understand the resources' structure, and they set up a read/modify/write race condition.
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[KevinMarks] Much safer to use POST and keep the knowledge of the resource structure and ability to do atomic updates in the server.
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cweiske #1 is solved with validation
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dansup well, if you are using mongo yeah. otherwise ACID handles atomic updates
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dansup transactions ftw
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Ruxton argubaly the HTTP verb you use to do the update isn't the issue, how is PUT/PATCH more likely to cause race conidtion over POST? it's all abput what you're doing upon receiving the request
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cweiske POST creates a new record, so you can't have a race condition over exisiting data :)
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Ruxton ugh. need a new MBP keyboard, 890,IOP,KL; are not pressing properly :/
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Ruxton cweiske: but if you use post for updating.. it's the same problem?
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cweiske yes
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cweiske maybe not, depending on what [KevinMarks] means
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cweiske if PUT requires you to send the full content for updating, then it would overwrite data modified in the meantime
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cweiske PATCH doesn't have this problem
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cweiske but it seems to me as if kevin wants to use POST for patching
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cweiske or so
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[KevinMarks] Yes, PUT causes the race condition but PATCH has the structure problem - the client needs to completely understand the resource to know how to patch it. If you change the structure, all the old clients will corrupt it.
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cweiske .. if you change your POST parameters, all the old clients will stumble
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[KevinMarks] Yes, but at least try won't corrupt the server data
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cweiske #1 is solved with validation
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cweiske besides, you're talking about api versioning.
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[KevinMarks] I'm talking about avoiding api versioning
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cweiske I missed that announcement
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[KevinMarks] Maybe this comes from having worked on an OS that had to maintain binary api compatibility. I'm wary of requiring everything to change at once.
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aaronpk This is a different argument, but I agree with what Kevinmarks is saying. It's not the http verb specifically that's the problem, it's the REST idea itself. It's one of those things that's nice in theory, but just isn't practical for most things
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aaronpk kind of like the OSI model, which is total crap beyond the lowest couple layers
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aaronpk https://blog.erratasec.com/2019/08/thread-on-osi-model-is-lie.html
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sknebel I have no idea why the OSI model gets referenced so much. teaching it for our actual networks is a bit like getting people into the details of XML when you try to teach them HTML5
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aaronpk It's a trap
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jgmac1106[m] Ruxton I am wondering if I am just done with macbook... Every release just gets worse and Apple cares less
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cweiske you'd have to change your nickname then
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@brianleroux It occurs to me that Twitter's data is designed to be static (uneditable) and thusly a *perfect* serverless app. We should clone it, enable a pub/sub timeline with webmention, publish to AWS SAR and GTFO of here. (twitter.com/_/status/1169253233996386305)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Folks talk about this in #IndieWeb-dev channels. Websub supported chat with webmentions be really neat. Biggest issue with Mastodon for me, besides admins acting as feudal lords, is no webmention support. #mb bunch just hand on… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/09/04/brianleroux-folks-talk-about-this-in-indieweb-dev (twitter.com/_/status/1169254636022358016)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Bunch of folks have made micropub and microsub readers that support webmentions, think many (though at limits of my knowledge) use websub for polling...I am currently building a webmention badging platform (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/16EDoz) (twitter.com/_/status/1169260874466549762)
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[schmarty] that doesn't sound accurate, jgmac1106
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[schmarty] i don't know of any microsub implementation (or reader of any kind) that supports sending or receiving webmentions.
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[schmarty] some micropub endpoints likely handle sending webmentions, but not receiving them.
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aaronpk also websub is used to *avoid* polling
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[fluffy] And you still want to poll periodically to get missed updates like in case of momentary outages
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[fluffy] Like I see it more as a mechanism to fast-track an update between polling intervals
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[jgmac1106] please feel free to correct me in tweet, as I said I was unsure
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ I was correct in my assumption of probably being wrong, some unattributed quotes from the #IndieWeb-dev channel correcting my assumptions "i don't know of any microsub implementation (or reader of any kind) that supports sending or… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/09/04/brianleroux-i-was-correct-in-my (twitter.com/_/status/1169289831517741056)
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[snarfed] idly wonders about scraping m.facebook.com with a test account's logged in cookie, for backfeed
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[snarfed] (since, hell, we're already doing it for instagram now)
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[schmarty] ooooh
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[snarfed] just as bad an idea as the notif email scraping, probably
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[schmarty] how is that working so far?
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[snarfed] it works, but only a handful people have tried, and only a few times. some people haven't been able to get FB to turn on their notif emails at all. (including me, at least on my main account)
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[snarfed] one example user: https://brid.gy/facebook-email/xavierroy
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[schmarty] not a ton of activity there 😅
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GWG [snarfed]: I am going to look at the webmention header issue next
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GWG It is going to have to be an option
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GWG Because of the previous issues that caused a reversion
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bekomotion[m] oi [schmarty] I'd suggest to get in touch with Matt from SocialFixer. He knows the FB stream fairly well if scraping is still an option. I'd also be interested in the mailbox thingy if you still need Feedback.
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[snarfed] thanks! the technical parts of scraping are the easiest. the policy, avoiding blocking, etc are harder.
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[snarfed] as for the existing FB notif email scraping feature, it works now, the remaining thing to see is if anyone actually uses it going forward. signs point to no so far
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bekomotion[m] I'm phasing FB out from my streams at all. It's a long process tho. Started to poke ppl about alternate streams of their content.
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bekomotion[m] So for some time I'd like this but it's really low priority [for me]
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[snarfed] background: https://brid.gy/about#rip-facebook
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bekomotion[m] Read.
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bekomotion[m] Also the gory details.
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bekomotion[m] It was another nail in the ⚰️ for FB for me
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@glueckpress ↩️ @mor10 In the Indieweb world, they are! And webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/1169357917553856515)
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@mor10 ↩️ @glueckpress See, now you have to explain webmentions to the class. (twitter.com/_/status/1169358515330150400)
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@glueckpress ↩️ @mor10 Hi, class! Webmentions are likes, RTs, and mentions, but on your website. Example: https://glueckpress.com/10096/automattic-tumbling/ (twitter.com/_/status/1169359587998339073)
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@glueckpress ↩️ @mor10 Docs: https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1169359668839362560)
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@glueckpress ↩️ @mor10 WordPress plugin: https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/ Your welcome! (twitter.com/_/status/1169359768697344010)
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@glueckpress ↩️ @mor10 WordPress plugin: https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/ You’re welcome! (twitter.com/_/status/1169359877006905344)
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@schlagetown ↩️ I like all these ideas! A shared blogchain TOC widget sounds very useful. I don't use RSS much but a multi-source feed would be cool. Also want to look into e.g. webmentions, see if there may be some other indieweb-aligned possibilities for syndication / subscription. (twitter.com/_/status/1169366682843910149)
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[snarfed] blogchain 😭
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jgmac1106 tomcricthlow check the IndieWeb Glith page there is an RSS Planet set up you can connect to any public rss feed. I use inoreader as they allow you to create an rss feed of your feeds, feedly does not
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KartikPrabhu "rss feed of your feeds" what's that?
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[jgmac1106] Meaning i can have a channel and make it public and generate an rss feed for juat that channel
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KartikPrabhu so someone follows your channel instead of the original sources?
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[jgmac1106] In Feedly you can make a bundle of sites you follow but there is no rss feed for the bundle
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KartikPrabhu that's pretty weird feed-ception
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[jgmac1106] Sometimes most just scroll the Planet
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[jgmac1106] I would share an example...but my server currently maxed out as I move a ton of files
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[jgmac1106] clmoocring.jgregorymcverry.com
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[jgmac1106] You could click on the Planet. Its just an iframe of an rss feed
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[tantek] what is Glitch
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Loqi Glitch (formerly Gomix, HyperDev before that) is a tool allowing you to quickly prototype web applications in a complete IDE with built in version control, sharing, and more https://indieweb.org/Glitch
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[tantek] "shared blogchain" is excellent!
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[tantek] is still trying to dig himself out of the hole he dug updating his event posts to support ICS and (eventually) add to gcal
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jgmac1106[m] The glitch Planet project is nothing anyways, just 3 different grid areas where youbcan drop in RSS feeds... clmooc planet and web ring is growing
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jgmac1106[m] The National Writing Project is sponsoring the National Write Out project with the Park Service... Gonna be fun to watch it get bigger
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jgmac1106[m] I need to join the blogchain and then add a curse if you do not send webmentions to five other sites
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@brianjesse What’s the rss feed equivalent of “so and so followed your feed” ? #rss #foaf #indieweb #webmention #diso #factoryjoe #track #friendfeed #laconica #bearhugcamp #gillmorgang #activitypub #ostatus (twitter.com/_/status/1169393931550781440)
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aaronpk heh
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[jgmac1106] a notification that you are being followed? They do that within readers, like you know how many wordpress.com, feedly, or inoreaders follow you but not across platform
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[snarfed] here, u-follow-of. https://indieweb.org/follow
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[snarfed] eg bridgy fed converts mastodon follows to u-follow-of webmentions
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