#dev 2019-10-11

2019-10-11 UTC
KartikPrabhu, dopplergange and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
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[KevinMarks] Talking of CSS, this is a bit odd- I made this thing https://real-stop.glitch.me/ that is supposed to let you make images of text, but the text loses all the kern pairs and variants when it's captured
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[KevinMarks] OMG the library I used to make a canvas of a div has it's own layout engine in
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[Lewis_Cowles] [kevinmarks] is that powered by canvas per-chance with it's ability to capture DOM like a screenshot?
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[Lewis_Cowles] It looks like it is. I see a canvas element visible though. Did you know you can capture base64 of that PNG and HTTP POST to a server?
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[Lewis_Cowles] I made something like this for vehicle damage assessment, but with a few drawing options. Wound up sending events to server instead of images though.
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[Lewis_Cowles] Images Racked up a fair bit of storage cost. Because I wanted, and then over-sold undo / redo functionality + history (s3 object versioning) the costs were too much. Even the browser couldn't keep all those images in a clean way, wound up crashing user instances of the app if many actions were taken (with images).
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[KevinMarks] It is a canvas, but it renders the html into the canvas using its own render code, and it does it character by character so the kern pairs and ligatures don't work.
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[KevinMarks] Maybe if I make the editable thing in svg I could do it.
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[Lewis_Cowles] [kevinmarks] you almost certainly can https://codepen.io/Lewiscowles1986/pen/RKxLjL
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[Lewis_Cowles] I went digging to see what I had public this AM
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[Lewis_Cowles] a canvas drawing that svg, or even something getting it’s parent innerHTML (if it were the sole child element) would provide.
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[Lewis_Cowles] It’s fun, and definitely a worthwhile thing to tinker with. I’m unsure how to make it inclusive
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[Lewis_Cowles] I added the inputs but I think you can make things contenteditable in SVG’s too
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[tantek] whoa that was a fascinating tweet to unpack: https://twitter.com/aswath/status/1182473382425743360
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@aswath #WebRTC apps can do better if they do not adopt userid format used in email, SIP and XMPP - user@example.com. They are NOT portable. Instead it is preferable to use an HTTP URI (Indieauth/Web ID) and allow users to bring in their own - as we do in http://mystoop.chat (twitter.com/_/status/1182473382425743360)
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[tantek] also from his profile: https://twitter.com/aswath: "unfederated" FTW.
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[tantek] I have never heard the term unfederated
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[tantek] what is unfederated
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unfederated" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "unfederated is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Ruxton I read that tweet earlier today and my frist thought was why is user@domain less portable than a domain-based HTTP URI?
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[tantek] because user doesn't own domain in typical user@domain identities
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[tantek] you don't own the domain = less portable
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Ruxton id.mystoop.chat/id/aswath <-- nor do they in his site he used as an example
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[tantek] except at least in that example, there is a *chance* that the domain can setup an HTTP redirect to the user's choice
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[tantek] (not guaranteed, but there is a standard for doing it)
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Ruxton "as we do in http://mystoop.chat" ok.. but.. you don't.. that's also a massive assumption, that a user owns the doman their web is on, but n their e-mail
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[tantek] with user@domain, no standard, very little chance
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[tantek] nah I'd say that's typical
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Ruxton it was typical 10 years ag
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Ruxton *ago
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[tantek] but yeah, the pushback of "but.. you don't" sounds valid
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[tantek] also not sure about typical 10 years ago, I'd say almost the opposite. 10 years ago if you had your own domain you'd of course setup your email to use it. Now I see folks at IndieWebCamps who use their domain for the website yet Gmail for email, because Google Docs
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[tantek] Google Docs is placing an ecosystem pressure on email identites to use @gmail.com emails for identity for convenience / ease-of-use/sharing Google Docs with people
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[tantek] (with the exception of corporate G Suite users of course, however even they typically use a "personal" Gmail account for non-work GDocs)
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[fluffy] Yeah gdocs is basically the only reason I ever share my Gmail address with anyone.
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[fluffy] What always happens is someone sends me a google doc to my beesbuzz.biz address then I have to request access from my gmail.com and people are surprised that I don’t just have a google account on my beesbuzz address. (I used to but it got hecked up)
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Ruxton but 10 years ago, peple were more likely to publish in a site they had control of, vs. today everyones writing on a platform. I'd argue there was more personal ownership of published content 10+ years ago.. more personal blogs, now everyones on medium/wordpress.com/facebook.
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[fluffy] I used to use gmail for domains and then I got sick of all my bits are belong to google
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Ruxton i saw so many good independent tech writers fade into platform noise
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[fluffy] I feel like 10 years ago Most folks I knew were on LJ or tumblr
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[fluffy] And tumblr at least lets you own your domain
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[Lewis_Cowles] for the case of email or domain as identity don’t they all come a little short regardless of self-hosting?
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Ruxton [Lewis_Cowles]: yah I think so
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[tantek] Ruxton your observation is correct as well
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Ruxton one is slightly better
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[tantek] This: "more personal ownership of published content 10+ years ago.. more personal blogs, now everyones on medium/wordpress.com/facebook."
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Ruxton yah, you were the person who made me quite aware of that
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[Lewis_Cowles] does indieweb have tools to regularly sync online -> local so that if people fall on hard times, get sick etc they can be sure whatever silo they are in is backed up?
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[tantek] [Lewis_Cowles] the fact that HTTP has redirect whereas no RFC re user@domain has any such concept is a key technical difference
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[tantek] [Lewis_Cowles] not that I know of but that's a great idea. Regular automatic exports.
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[fluffy] There’s a long period of time when I just didn’t touch my own blog at all for a bunch of reasons and I mostly used tumblr for that sort of thing. Now I’m back to using my own blog and just POSSEing to the other places.
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[tantek] Sounds like a great service to provide (possibly charge for!)
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[tantek] [fluffy] similar thing happened to me ~2006-2009 😞
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[tantek] except s/tumblr/twitter&flickr
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[Lewis_Cowles] [tantek] true, although I have an old email set to alias which the commit for says “301 redirect email” It’s not honest, but it’s grokable by some
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[fluffy] Yeah I guess Twitter replaced a lot of my blogging urge too
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[tantek] [Lewis_Cowles] right, email aliasing is a possible feature, just not part of any standard
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[tantek] [fluffy] I'm not proud of it. Took a while to realize what had happened
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[fluffy] I still treat microblogging stuff as separate from my actual blog and I don’t see myself moving to like a micro pub + posse setup anytime soon
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Ruxton [tantek]: at least you realised and came back ;) there's a huge chunk of people still pourng their effort into the twitter garden
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[fluffy] Although my microbloggy things moved primarily to mastodon
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[tantek] [fluffy] you can see the stats here purely in terms of kb of posts per month http://tantek.com/log/2007/ vs http://tantek.com/log/2008/ which then terminates in this sad single post month: http://tantek.com/log/2008/08.html
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[tantek] Ruxton I still feel guilty about 2009 TBH
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Ruxton woah XFN friends list.. what is this 2007? ;P
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[tantek] Though it was also the turnaround point so perhaps that's a positive. 2009 was indieweb rockbottom for me. And also when I started coding /Falcon, with an intent to go 100% back to owning my own notes on 2010-01-01, which I did, even if it took me 25 days to get POSSEing working 🙂
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[tantek] re: XFN 2007 IKR 😂
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Ruxton the left bar too.. you were living in silos hard at that point
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[Lewis_Cowles] [tantek] ++
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Loqi [tantek] has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (126 in all channels)
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Ruxton livejournal, last.fm, blip.tv, revver, flickr, pownce, upcoming, technorati, twitter
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Ruxton amazing how dead most of thse have become
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[tantek] true. so many 2009 Pownce posts. all exported to an XML file somewhere hopefully to be backported to permalinks on my own domain at some point
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[tantek] s/backported/backfilled
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[tantek] I need to write a bunch of rando-XML to h-entry(s) converters
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Ruxton BOSHE - BACKFILL ONLY SO HISTORY EQUATES
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[tantek] it's the integration of backfill and original posts that's the challenge
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[tantek] e.g. 2006-2008 for me with Twitter and Pownce
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[tantek] IDK how to (haven't thought enough about) show archives / sequential navigation across posts that originated on my site vs backfill imports
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[tantek] There's the batch approach, where you convert everything old to one new integrated format and storage archive
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[tantek] and then there's the dynamic approach, where you write code to access to those time frames that dynamically loads original storage files and backfill storage files and integrates them at runtime
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[Lewis_Cowles] I’d be very interested in a standard for retraction if I were to bring in old content
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[tantek] while the latter seems like it may be more work, it also allows for more incremental importing of backfill from different silos
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[tantek] without having to redo a bunch of painful batch processes
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[tantek] painful and possibly lossy
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[tantek] with the latter approach, if you ever realize your runtime integration is "lossy", you can "just" patch your runtime code to be less lossy since it's operating on the original export files
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[tantek] [Lewis_Cowles] what's the difference between retraction and deletion in your perspective?
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[tantek] from a posting / displaying posts perspective
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[Lewis_Cowles] retraction being consciously owning that you had a perspective which was incorrect
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[tantek] a-ha
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[Lewis_Cowles] it’s quite an unnatural concept compared with publishing something else (rolling forwards)
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[tantek] well we do have the notion of updating a post
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[tantek] and marking it up as such with <ins> and <del>
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[tantek] do you have an existing examples of retraction posts?
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[tantek] or posts you updated *with* retraction notices?
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[Lewis_Cowles] I’ve not I delete them 😁
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[Lewis_Cowles] but in personal life and professional life I use strikethrough with apology
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[Lewis_Cowles] I suppose ins / del are ways to approach that which are not lossy
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[tantek] just a bit more semantic 🙂
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[tantek] than <s>bad</s>
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[Lewis_Cowles] I mean I have many stupid ideas including attaching a camera to a tree and filming over a century. Maybe I should retract my question 😂
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[tantek] 😂
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[tantek] consent screen << 2010-08-17 {{benward}} [https://benward.uk/blog/tumblr-968515729 Would this really be so bad?] (see screenshot, one of the first sketches of an accepted OAuth UI convention today!). Original link: http://blog.benward.me/post/968515729
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Loqi ok, I added "2010-08-17 {{benward}} [https://benward.uk/blog/tumblr-968515729 Would this really be so bad?] (see screenshot, one of the first sketches of an accepted OAuth UI convention today!). Original link: http://blog.benward.me/post/968515729" to the "See Also" section of /consent_screen https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=65424&oldid=65388
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Loqi [Ben Ward] Would this really be so bad?
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[tantek] ^^^ aaronpk you may find that post amusing (especially given the year)
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GWG Morning all
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[jgmac1106] i wouldn't expect them too but my feed reader doesn't pick up u-featured as an img to display (using Granary) wonder if inoreader grabbing it from OG
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[jgmac1106] moving feed questions here gwg, I got https://jgregorymcverry.com/myphotos working but can't seem to get inoreader to recognize https://jgregorymcverry.com/articles or https://jgregorymcverry
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GWG In discovery or if they show up correctly when parsed?
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[jgmac1106] discovery
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[jgmac1106] they parse fine
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GWG My code finds them
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[jgmac1106] thx
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[jgmac1106] wonder if it was a cache issue with inoreader
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[jgmac1106] do realize I need to fix all my feed links in my h-card inoreader didn't recognize any of those, most are links to the content guess I will add a <link> below each with the rss feed
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GWG I am looking at date calculation in alternative calendars
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GWG I found this from 2005. http://www.david-greve.de/luach-code/jewish-php.html
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GWG I was thinking about it after [arush] was giving the NYC keynote
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GWG The Jewish date is in her sidebar
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[grantcodes] This is my favourite calendar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar - not that anyone uses it...
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GWG My needs are scheduling based
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[Lewis_Cowles] [grantcodes] I bill customers on that calendar if it helps
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[Lewis_Cowles] The disadvantages on that list though…
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@soapdog ↩️ @AndreJaenisch @elioqoshi @SustainOSS @opencollect loved the article! Will implement webmentions as well and write a similar piece as well. (twitter.com/_/status/1182622140375453697)
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[jgmac1106] So I keep links to where I publish in my h-card bur want to add an RSS feed for each. Should I put those in the <head>?
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[jgmac1106] How are other people listing feeds? I want it so if someone throws https://jgregorymcverry.com into a reader they gwt a list of feeds ti choose from
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2F
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aaronpk [tantek]: haha yes I use that example in my talks all the time!
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aaronpk And it's in my book too https://www.oauth.com/oauth2-servers/scope/checkboxes/
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aaronpk consent screen << https://www.oauth.com/oauth2-servers/scope/checkboxes/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.oauth.com/oauth2-servers/scope/checkboxes/" to the "See Also" section of /consent_screen https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=65434&oldid=65424
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[Rose] Following a conversation with [jeremycherfas]: Here's my Shortcut which gets a Compass sharing link for the next X minutes: https://www.icloud.com/shortcuts/80bd2d3e05794234a059ee72247078fc
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[Rose] X being something you specify as part of the Shortcut. It doesn't do anything with that yet, but I'm working on it 🙂
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[Rose] This has me thinking that doing a Shortcuts session at IWC Brighton would be good.
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jeremycherfas It would.
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[Rose] Please make a note of any particular things you would like covered, I'll make sure I have my iPad ready for demo, and a way to connect it to a projector and Zoom.
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aaronpk Yay! We had a fun shortcuts session in Amsterdam
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[Rose] Bonus: iOS 13 lets you use automations, so when you turn your alarm off in the morning it can auto post to your website
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Loqi :D
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aaronpk we missed you there tho!
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[Rose] I really wanted to be there, but life is trying to take over. I had just got back from Greece and had a big video deadline on the Monday. And then I was sick that weekend anyway!
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sknebel random HTML style question: arguments about <sub>/<sup> vs unicode equivalents? Unicode is limited in range of characters (and somewhat intended for only some use cases, e.g. chemical formula), they're displayed differently sometimes, but unicode would survive through plaintext handling. anything I'm missing?
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KartikPrabhu there are unicode values for super/sub scripts!?
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sknebel Yes, but on closer look it's really patchy
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sknebel E.g. only letters "commonly used in mathematics"
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sknebel So for non-numbers and some special purposes they're not an option
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KartikPrabhu yeah, which is why that is weird to have in unicode
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KartikPrabhu I have used Greek and sometimes Cyrillic and Hebrew symbols in sup/sub scripts before
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sknebel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_subscripts_and_superscripts
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@daycamp4devs Storing and retrieving webmentions with Firebase https://freek.dev/1474-storing-and-retrieving-webmentions-with-firebase #FreekVanDerHerten (twitter.com/_/status/1182699363707039745)
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GWG aaronpk, when you say it is in your book I flash back to The Critic
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[SE_NOVEM] Hi,
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[SE_NOVEM] trying to implement webp images on this site: https://novemgold.com/nnn/
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[SE_NOVEM] <picture>
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[SE_NOVEM] <source srcset="assets/imgs/9999.png" type="image/png" width="138px">
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[SE_NOVEM] <source srcset="assets/imgs/9999.webp" type="image/webp" width="138px">
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[SE_NOVEM] <img src="assets/imgs/9999.png" width="138px">
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[SE_NOVEM] </picture>
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[SE_NOVEM] but chrome uses always the fallback image:
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[SE_NOVEM] <img src="assets/imgs/9999.png" width="138px">
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[SE_NOVEM] Could someone point me to the right direction, and what my mistake is?
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[fluffy] Hasn’t <picture> been abandoned in favor of <img srcset>?
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[fluffy] Like I think you want to do <img src=“fallback.png” srcset=“lores.webp 1x, hires.webp 2x”> or whatever.
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[fluffy] I don’t know if there’s a simple way to provide content type hinting though.
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[SE_NOVEM] thanks will try that out, all the recent tutorials pointed me to <picture>
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[SE_NOVEM] 🤔
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[SE_NOVEM] https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/make-your-website-load-lightning-fast-with-webp-images-cf55c98ac0a2/
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[SE_NOVEM] This has the same example: Topic "Use modern image formats boldly"
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[SE_NOVEM] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Multimedia_and_embedding/Responsive_images
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[fluffy] Hmm, I dunno then.
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[fluffy] https://caniuse.com/#search=Webp suggests that the only major browser which doesn’t support webp directly is safari
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[fluffy] I guess one hack you could do is <img src=“9999.webp” style=“background-image:url(‘9999.png’)”> but that wastes bandwidth and won’t have correct transparency.
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[fluffy] Which I assume defeats your purpose :)
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myfreeweb [fluffy]: picture has not been abandoned
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myfreeweb picture and srcset can be used together for different purposes
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myfreeweb and for webp you definitely want to use picture
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