#dev 2019-10-13
2019-10-13 UTC
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ShokuninDiscord[ It’d be nice to be able to partner with w3c or such
# ShokuninDiscord[ To push those
# ShokuninDiscord[ It’s pretty easy to do this in the case of startups who want to push a standard. Do joint marketing and such.
# ShokuninDiscord[ I wonder what would be possible in this case?
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@nhoizey ↩️ I see people suggesting Disqus… please don’t: https://nicolas-hoizey.com/2017/07/so-long-disqus-hello-webmentions.html
I chose Webmentions, but I understand people can prefer old-fashioned comments.
Here is a huge list of open source comment systems:
https://lisakov.com/projects/open-source-comments/ (twitter.com/_/status/1183295390453567489)
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jeremycherfas I wish I understood why the name on my h-card, which is on my home page, which is the Author of every one of my posts, does not seem to show up when I send a webmention. I've looked at authorship discovery, but I can't figure it out.
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[Rose] I presume https://webmention.rocks/ doesn’t find it?
# jeremycherfas I've been using pin13 to look. Let me check again.
# jeremycherfas Ah. It isn't my implementation. I use https://webmention.herokuapp.com/
# jeremycherfas And that is not finding it.
# jeremycherfas And, in fact, I've noted the issue before, a couple of years ago. https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/44
# jeremycherfas And you've been involved too, [Rose] https://github.com/voxpelli/webpage-webmentions/issues/75
# jeremycherfas Can I offer a bounty voxpelli ?
# jeremycherfas Understood. I'm working on a new theme, so I should accept the limitations of your excellent srvice and ensure that each post has an h-card, probably hidden.
# jeremycherfas OK.
# jeremycherfas I'm remembering now that I made an h-card that contained only <data> elements and so did not need to be hidden
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# [Lewis_Cowles] [Rose] does your programmable name badge use an e-ink display? I got a raspberry pi-w and inky p-hat which I made a programmable badge from. I've never worn it anywhere
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[jgmac1106] today I think I may have learned that inline styling of images may not allow for Bridgy publishing: Error
{"request":"\/1.1\/media\/upload.json","error":"media type unrecognized."} 400 Client Error: None for url: https://upload.twitter.com/1.1/media/upload.json# [jgmac1106] yes removing the img rotation (meaning I had to change img ratios) and Bridgy worked: https://twitter.com/jgmac1106/status/1183378661703114752
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# [JHSheridan] anyone have any luck self-hosting ownyourgram recently? I keep going back and forth on whether to just leave instagram completely or try to self-host ownyourgram.
# [jgmac1106] would a self hosted version get around the rate limits? I wonder?? I am actually removing OWG from a few client sites this weekend but that is also Known issues as much as OWG
# [jgmac1106] my vote is leave any facebook company, especially after their last "ohh we know the ads are misleading and fake but we will take Trump's money anyways"
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# [JHSheridan] yeah if you couldn't lie in advertising, a lot of ppl would be out of a job... haha
# [JHSheridan] but yeah... I agree with you. I think the answer is to leave facebook. I know the political lying thing is in the news recently and that's definitely worth being upset about, but even just root issue of a company collecting all of this info about you to let ANYONE manipulate you... even if they aren't lying should be reason enough.
# [JHSheridan] the fact that I know better, and still consider using the services is kinda sad...
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# [jgmac1106] Will try. I was using inline styling to rotate img. Pretty edge case
# [snarfed] https://jgregorymcverry.com/photos/art/skullbouqet.jpg (which now 404s)
# [jgmac1106] maybe I went over the 5mb limit, will try to recreate to test
# [jgmac1106] aaronpk++
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Loqi #silentsunday#clmooc https://jgregorymcverry.com/photos/art/skullbouquet.jpg
# [jgmac1106] yeah and i forgot to optimize before posting
# [jgmac1106] good to know it wasn't styling and that has no effect
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# [Lewis_Cowles] [fluffy] I'm not sure it's just infinite scrolls or just EU. The verge did an issue about a US proposal https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/30/20746878/josh-hawley-dark-patterns-platform-design-autoplay-youtube-videos-scrolling-snapstreaks-illegal
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# [Lewis_Cowles] I think all things like this are over-steps. We do need better regulation, but also to have smart liberal people making laws. Without freedom truth and liberty are hard to come by
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# [Lewis_Cowles] rose++
# [Lewis_Cowles] Is it for a website?
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[dmitshur] More thoughts on IndieAuth (the protocol and spec) and using URLs for identity on the web.
# [dmitshur] Are there considerations for identity name changes?
# [dmitshur] For example, on github.com, it's possible to "rename" an account. Its profile URL changes from "github.com/oldname" to "github.com/newname", and things generally keep working. github.com uses unique numeric IDs for each account, and those can never change.
# [dmitshur] If a person logs in via "oldname.com" and wants to change their name to "newname.com", is it viable (and/or desirable) for actions they've previously taken while authenticated as "oldname.com" to now be shown as if they were done by "newname.com"?
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# [dmitshur] I imagine it may be possible to come up with some sort of mechanism to accomplish this, if it's deemed to be a good thing.
# [dmitshur] For example, it can be done with redirects. If the person who controls oldname.com sets up a redirect to newname.com, that can be a way of signaling that "oldname.com" has been renamed to "newname.com".
# [dmitshur] Yeah, these are all good questions... that I'm looking for answers now, because I'd like to stop relying on github.com for providing me with user identities, and github had solved them for me. 😛
# [dmitshur] I think this question falls onto my website: should I be identifying users by URLs, or should I be creating unique user IDs and associating them with URLs for authentication purposes.
# [dmitshur] I'd prefer the simpler solution of just relying on URLs to identify users, if it were viable. But my concern with doing that is the inability for users to rename their identity in the future.
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# [dmitshur] Do you mean that it's still possible to let people change their URL even if I use URL as the primary user key? That it'd just'd be a matter updating rows in many tables instead of a single row in users table?
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# [dmitshur] That's a good point, thanks.
# [dmitshur] An option may be to let people have multiple linked identities, and give them control over which one they prefer or consider canonical. Perhaps somewhat analogously to how rel=me links allow connecting different websites, and how "authn" can be used to pick a preferred authentication identity (https://indielogin.com/setup#choosing-auth-providers).
# [dmitshur] btw, is that "authn" feature specific to indielogin.com only, or is it a part of any spec?
# [dmitshur] thanks
# [dmitshur] another comment (related to earlier discussion on renaming accounts) re the "User Accounts" section at https://aaronparecki.com/2018/07/07/7/oauth-for-the-open-web:
# [dmitshur] > This means we need a way to uniquely identify users across the entire web. We can again use URLs as the solution! Every user is identified by a URL. This can be a short URL like someone's domain name, e.g. https://aaronparecki.com/, or for a site with multiple users, can be a URL that contains a path specifying a particular user on the site, e.g. https://github.com/aaronpk.
# [dmitshur] But with github.com profile pages specifically, I can't help but think that a URL like https://github.com/aaronpk isn't permanent, it changes when the GitHub user renames their github account. On the other hand, a URL like https://api.github.com/user/113001 doesn't change when the GitHub user renames their account. But that page may change if GitHub changes their API endpoints. It's also subject to rate limits, and can't host rel=me links,
# [dmitshur] I think the point there was that the url can have a non-empty path, like `example.com/user1`.
# [dmitshur] etc.
# [dmitshur] Even if it were viable to use the api URL, it's pretty ugly and no one would want that to be their canonical URL I imagine.
# [dmitshur] ok. maybe I should stop thinking about this problem in terms of "I need to be at feature-parity with my previous solution" and instead "suppose I'm solving this problem from scratch, what would be a good user experience". my website has few users, none of them care, I'm free to experiment.
# jgmac1106[m] dmitshur++
# jgmac1106[m] Realizing nobody cares frees up so many possibilities and never stops progress
# [dmitshur] I agree and I've achieved that a while ago
# [dmitshur] the problem here is that even if I'm starting from scratch, it's still a hard problem to solve well
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@dshanske WordPress Webmentions Plugin Version 4.0.0 Released: https://di5.us/b/q3 (twitter.com/_/status/1183486701479628800)
# [dmitshur] just to clarify, the main reason I was thinking about the problem of user renames and such is not because I need it for my site, but because I'm trying to convince myself that using URLs as user identities (and then IndieAuth to authenticate with said URLs) is a good approach, and then I'll be able to do a better job of convincing others.
# [dmitshur] I think being able to rename one's identity is an important ability that improves user experience, especially if you want to be able to rely on it long term (for many years or longer).
# [dmitshur] as a contrived example, I wouldn't want to convince someone to rely on URLs as their web identity and then they can't marry and change their last name without it going out of sync with their URL 😛
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# [jeremycherfas] Dark mode will have to wait.
# myfreeweb [dmitshur]: there's a great tool on the web for renaming anything… called redirects :) maybe our stuff just needs to respect permanent redirects better. fun example - let's say i move to a new domain, set the old one to redirect, and resend all webmentions from the new one. the result would be all replies being duplicated :D
# myfreeweb though for anyone who refetches webmentions and handles redirects, the old ones would disappear after a refetch
# myfreeweb other fun tools are rel=canonical and rel=alternate links.. would be a nice convention, you link to the old domain with something like rel="alternate old" and anyone who fetches your page could verify that the old link actually redirects to the current one and consider this an update of the (e.g.) reply that was on the previous domain
# [dmitshur] Hmm... a combination of rel=me and rel=canonical may be very interesting to consider.
# [dmitshur] Is there a name for an existing IndieWeb building block for linking multiple domains together with rel=me, and using specifying which one should be considered canonical with rel=canonical? As a way of implementing identity renaming.
# myfreeweb probably not, i can't think of anyone moving yet
# myfreeweb tangentially related: i'd love to eventually explore ways of linking mirrors and alternate-ways-to-access (i.e. a Tor onion service for the same site is that - and not a mirror, it's served by the same server)
# myfreeweb mirrors probably aren't that interesting (?) but for tor it would be cool to, like, accept a webmention from a .onion address, but link to its rel=canonical clearnet version on my clearnet version
# [dmitshur] here's how I may want to use it (on my site) eagerly... I have a bunch of user identities that are all github accounts. I can convert those identities to URLs like "github.com/<username>". then, I can let people change their identity to their personal site or something else by setting their GitHub profile's website URL to something (a part of RelMeAuth) and checking if their website has a rel=canonical link.
# [dmitshur] it's also a way for someone to change their github username without breaking their user on my site (no that I expect anyone to care about this, but I want it to be possible in theory).
# [dmitshur] ok, I was excited and hadn't been reading your comments myfreeweb yet. reading over them now I see you thought of rel=canonical too, nice 😄
# [dmitshur] although rel=canonical's current meaning may be subtly different, so overloading it for this new meaning may not be ideal. maybe a new similar thing would need to be created. anyway, I think this is a nice line of thinking that has potentially good solutions at the end.
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[KevinMarks] Github.com allows one outbound rel=me link, so you can point them all at your home domain.
# [KevinMarks] And link back from that too
# [KevinMarks] Mastodon allows 4
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@MeritzPress Where a flower blooms tonight, Devout and purple, With a rift for a hollow power, That shivers it springs from a root - from Pluck At The Offering, Barbarity. Free excerpts. Order at http://amzn.to/2CF8fts or kindle http://amzn.to/2CV3tw4 #literature #kindle #indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/1183502688966893568)
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[tantek] Speaking of IG https://www.instagram.com/p/B3kyZF6AoBx/
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# [Lewis_Cowles] jjdelc++
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