#dev 2019-10-17

2019-10-17 UTC
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[jgmac1106] a stripped down loqi or kaja Slack bot folks could add to unfurl links would be a neat little toy to play with
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[tantek] 45 hours until !tell tantek note to self: figure out how to update RSVPs display on events to link direct to RSVP permalinks
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-10-18 4:00pm PDT (#6665)
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[dmitshur] Hello. I have another question/topic to discuss in my quest to migrate from GitHub identities to URL identities.
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[dmitshur] I understand, as part of IndieAuth, it's recommended and possible to rely on Microformats (microformats2) to fetch metadata about the person, including their name and photo. http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card -> "name" and "photo" properties should give you that.
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gRegorLove Hm, should micropub `visibility` be a property of the post itself or of the mp request, with the mp- prefix?
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gRegorLove Looks like Micropub for WordPress expects the former
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[dmitshur] GitHub identities come with an important property "login", in the sense that it's used like "@username" to mention users and cause them to receive notifications.
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[dmitshur] I'm wondering if there's equivalent property I can use when relying on URL identities.
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[dmitshur] It has to be something unique to avoid ambiguity. GitHub usernames have that property, github can enforce it by preventing people from creating a second account with an existing username.
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gRegorLove You could look for p-nickname in the h-card
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[dmitshur] Right now I'm just using their GitHub username; not creating one of my own.
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[dmitshur] Thanks, that sounds like a close fit, but I worry using that for @mentions can be prone to problems because different people can have identical h-nicknames.
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[dmitshur] People's URL is guaranteed to be unique... so maybe it's worth considering using that.
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[dmitshur] E.g., "hey @jgregorymcverry.com can you take a look at this?"
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gRegorLove Ah. Yeah. Are you talking about syndicating your reply to Github?
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[dmitshur] For now, I'm just thinking about the task of parsing text to understand when an @ mention happened.
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[dmitshur] I should read up on https://indieweb.org/Webmention and see if I get any ideas, or maybe it already solved this problem.
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[dmitshur] A more concrete initial use-case would be in the context of an issue tracker on my personal site.
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[dmitshur] I realize I would probably have an easier time with some of these things if I let people post issues/replies on their websites rather than on mine. Because then I could just rely on Webmentions directly, etc.
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[jgmac1106] I think I want to figure out away to move my nav to my footer on mobile, wished I used grid areas rather than explicit grids...didn't know well enough at time
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[snarfed] [dmitshur] sounds like https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache
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[dmitshur] Very interesting. Thank you!
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[dmitshur] I've checked a few people's h-cards and no one seems to set h-nickname 😞
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aaronpk Nicknames are a personal thing
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aaronpk I have defined nicknames for people in my nicknames cache regardless of whether they've published their own nicknames on their site
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[snarfed] right. like your email address book
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aaronpk so in my posts you might see me mention @t and @tantek and both link to Tantek.com
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aaronpk but that happens on my side even if Tantek didn't publish his nicknames
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gRegorLove I have p-nickname in my h-card (gregorlove.com), but yeah /nickname-cache is more what you want.
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aaronpk The trick is to stop thinking about the system as a globally unique set of names, because that doesn't work and isn't realistic. It only works when you have a silo enforcing uniqueness
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[dmitshur] That sounds reasonable for blogging and interacting with people you know. It may not work as well in the context of an issue tracker, where a random person (who you don't know) may file an issue and you may want to @-mention them (or someone else who commented in that issue).
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aaronpk in practice people refer to each other with a name that is unique enough within the context of the target audience
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aaronpk separate from that is their DNS name
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aaronpk which is a globally unique database of names
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[dmitshur] yeah, I imagine autocomplete that just suggests names or URLs of all people who commented in the issue would work well enough
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aaronpk theres nothing special about issue tracking here
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aaronpk it's just like handling any other response to one of your posts
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[dmitshur] I guess it's not too different from blogging, where a random person may leave a reply. only difference is that issues may be started by people other than you, but that's not a big difference.
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[dmitshur] right.
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[dmitshur] this is very helpful, thanks for feedback 🙂
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[dmitshur] Also, I don't have to drop github usernames right away; I can use them (for people who have github accounts) to populate my nickname cache. But I can start decreasing my reliance on them and make it possible for someone without a github account to interact without compromises.
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gRegorLove bumping so it doesn't get lost in other conversation: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2019-10-17#t1571278577935100
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Loqi [gRegorLove] Hm, should micropub `visibility` be a property of the post itself or of the mp request, with the mp- prefix?
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gRegorLove It feels like a server command to me
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GWG gRegorLove: There was a debate about that I remember
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gRegorLove I couldn't find it on github or the wiki
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GWG I don't recall, but I remember it vaguely
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gRegorLove Found some chat about it: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2018-11-17#t1542492599686500
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Loqi [GWG] Why is visibility, which is a command, not mp-visibility in Micropub?
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[grantcodes] Yeah it doesn't have mp- Infront of it. I also brought that up on a GitHub issue somewhere - although I may have been talking about another similar property
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[tantek] after tonight's meetup I'm thinking that my authoring UX needs to be LocalFirst
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[KevinMarks] [dmitshur] if you expand the github usernames to github urls then you have uniqueness
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[jgmac1106] What is LocalFirst?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "LocalFirst" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "LocalFirst is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[calumryan] What is JAMstack?
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Loqi JAMstack is a web development architecture based on client-side JavaScript, reusable APIs, and prebuilt Markup https://indieweb.org/JAMstack
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[Lewis_Cowles] What is OfflineFirst?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "OfflineFirst" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "OfflineFirst is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[Lewis_Cowles] OfflineFirst is a group dedicated to the furthering of experiences without guaranteed network connectivity http://offlinefirst.org/ http://hood.ie/blog/say-hello-to-offline-first.html
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Loqi ok
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[Lewis_Cowles] I still have not been able to locate LocalFirst. I’m hoping it’s local compute before deferring to the network, but 3 search engines, duck, google and bing suggest it’s about supporting local businesses including farmers markets
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[jgmac1106] Yeah "local first" too common
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[jgmac1106] Very interested in that with our OER work in Ghana. Need offline first websites and wikis
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[Lewis_Cowles] OER -> Open Educational Resources (OER)?
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[jgmac1106] my bad, sorry for jargon, yes
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/2019-10-17-1
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fnotes%2F2019-10-17-1
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[jgmac1106] why would bridgy be telling me I am missing an h-entry on that note?
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[jgmac1106] I get this message, "Could not find content in h-entry or any other element!"
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beko[m] It's empty content. Mayhap it's this.
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[jgmac1106] Yeah what is making the p-name empty? The blockquote?
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/2019-10-17-1
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fnotes%2F2019-10-17-1
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Loqi Quote of the day:
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Loqi Quote of the day:
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[jgmac1106] ohh duh...I am nesting a blockquote in a p and the p has the p-name e-conent
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[Lewis_Cowles] jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (111 in all channels)
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beko[m] sorry, did just see the php link and not the website source and yeah looks like p-name on e-content so I guess it's confused.
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[jgmac1106] beko++ for help
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Loqi beko has 1 karma over the last year
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beko[m] 🙂
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[jgmac1106] in trying to to keep my notes as simple as possible I used p-name on the p element...doesn't work for a quote post
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beko[m] iktf. I'm probably responsible for a lot of traffic on php.microformats.io 😆
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[jgmac1106] now to figure out how to build a page of all my notes...why I am working through the PHP course..but for now just may add an include and make a list of all links in the directory, won't have content or markup but is a start
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[Rose] ```
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[Rose] foreach($notes as $note) {
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[Rose] }
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[Rose] print_r(file_get_contents($note));
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[Rose] ```
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[Lewis_Cowles] Do you have many notes?
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[Lewis_Cowles] and are they static, or do they use PHP?
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[jgmac1106] They use php for header and footer and are all php files not many now, will need to figure out pagination, may use a weekly subdirectory, probably should do by day
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[jgmac1106] Some days I might publish 50+ notes
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[jgmac1106] Rose++
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Loqi Rose has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (54 in all channels)
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[Rose] So the content of the file is a full PHP page?
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[Rose] You'll need to extract the content somehow, it might make more sense long term to look into storing these items in a database (SQLite, MariaDB), or putting the content into JSON files which your PHP template reads. But that's a whole other rabbit hole with routing and so on.
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[Rose] Having spent yesterday justifying to management why two of us would like to go on a Symfony course that's what I'd use, but that's me 🙂
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[Lewis_Cowles] Did you win [Rose]?
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[Rose] I find out on Wednesday
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[Lewis_Cowles] 🎖
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[Rose] I'm getting the hang of it, but I feel like I'm wasting a lot of time trying things which don't work - hence wanting the training
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[Rose] (Also, this is a high visibility project affecting around 40,000 people, so it would be nice to get it right)
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[Lewis_Cowles] That is very responsible of you. I only wish more people felt the same.
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[Rose] This is password management... if I screw it up then it'll be the front page of all the local newspapers
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[Rose] Oh, and it could compromise the personal data and passwords of all those people. I'd rather that didn't happen
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[Lewis_Cowles] I genuinely meant that it was good and that I wish more people felt the same.
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[Rose] Yeah, I wish I knew what I was actually doing though, or had more of a clue than I do - I feel like I have no idea what I'm doing (probably much safer than "I know everything about password management and security!" though). But yes, training is good!
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[Rose] [Lewis_Cowles]++
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Loqi [Lewis_Cowles] has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] [Rose] i will figure some way to do this with flat files..just gonna be slow... Though at some point I want webmentions... Which means some kind of storage... Dunno... But that long way off
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[jgmac1106] May just start manually adding them from webmentions. Io right now just to play with how I want webmentions to display
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beko[m] <[Rose] "I'm getting the hang of it, but "> sounds like a typical dev day 🙂 find out how stuff works - or doesn't.
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[Rose] Mostly doesn't 😛
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beko[m] yeah… a copper for every function that never went into production =)
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[Rose] The good news is I think I accidentally followed a good path to get to where I currently am. I went with Doctrine DBAL, Doctrine ORM, and then Symfony.
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[jgmac1106] !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/2019-10-17-1
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Kaja_ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fnotes%2F2019-10-17-1
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Loqi "Do not take life's experience too seriously. Above all, do not let them hurt you, for in reality they are nothing but dream experiences. Play your part in life, but never forget it is only a role."Paramahansa Yogananda
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Loqi "Do not take life's experience too seriously. Above all, do not let them hurt you, for in reality they are nothing but dream experiences. Play your part in life, but never forget it is only a role."Paramahansa Yogananda
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[schmarty] ooh, this piece from CSS Tricks about "image management services" jives with a lot of my thoughts about image proxies as an indieweb building block. https://css-tricks.com/workflow-considerations-for-using-an-image-management-service/
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[calumryan] Progress on my site has stalled somewhat in recent months, attempting to resolve why it 503s on restart
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[Lewis_Cowles] 503 is service unavailable
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[Lewis_Cowles] it could be that it takes some time to be able to serve requests
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[Lewis_Cowles] what does it use (tech)?
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[calumryan] PHP backend with Apache2 on Ubuntu 18
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[Lewis_Cowles] fpm, cgi or mod_php?
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[Lewis_Cowles] does `tail /var/log/apache2/error.log` give any hints?
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[calumryan] mod_php
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[Lewis_Cowles] Oh, that should never happen…
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[calumryan] Possibly I need to take another look at the logs
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[Lewis_Cowles] it could also be that a config is telling apache to use fpm, despite mod_php being installed, thus overriding (must have allow overrides on)
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[Lewis_Cowles] if you allow overrides, it could be a .htaccess file
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[jgmac1106] [schmarty] yeah been thinking of the privacy/security/time saving balances
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[jgmac1106] I am assuming my shared host uses a decent CDN... Or thier host upstream... I do better in time test with my images on my shared host when compared to CDNs I tried
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[jgmac1106] N=3 and one bwing Glitch's, with a wake up, so that doesn't count
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[jgmac1106] uggg zegnat now that I am officially working on a Known plugin back to the APA problem of citations....May just use two form fields (link, description) for MVP and leave it up to the reader. no consumer...no problem...plain text just the same
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[jgmac1106] Known plugin for a course builder I mean, to be followed by the webmention badging plugin...
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[Rose] Local WordPress is installing, woot!
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Loqi 😊
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[Rose] Good news, I did not break WordPress with my custom theme, that’s useful
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[snarfed] example bridgy mastodon user page: https://brid.gy/mastodon/@snarfed@mastodon.technology
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[snarfed] oops, sorry, announced that in #indieweb, not here. switching back to that channel
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[dougbeal] [snarfed] what does bridgy looks for? rel-me and url doesn’t seem like it would be enough to identify mastodon
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[snarfed] [dougbeal] what do you mean by "look for"?
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[dougbeal] [snarfed] What identifies it as mastodon
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[snarfed] "it"?
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[snarfed] sorry, not trying to be obtuse. have you signed up yet? ie clicked the mastodon button on https://brid.gy/ ?
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aaronpk :blink: i don't see a mastodon button...?
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sknebel There is no Mastodon button on there for me?
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[dougbeal] Same, I was assuming I needed some sort of different rel-me link
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[snarfed] huh. hard refresh?
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[snarfed] oh nm sorry, let me clear a cache
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aaronpk what are the two hardest problems in computer science?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "two hardest problems in computer science" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "two hardest problems in computer science is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[snarfed] touche
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sknebel The two hardest problems in computer science are naming things, cache invalidation, off by one errors and cache invalidation.
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Loqi ok
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[snarfed] sorry about that! ok try again
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[snarfed] aha first bug, need to change how i find web site urls in profiles, thanks for discovering 😁
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[dougbeal] should it be identity?
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[snarfed] the labels are all user provided afaik, not sure there are standards
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[snarfed] fixed, it should find your web site now if you log in again
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[snarfed] poll hit another bug. thanks again for testing!
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[dougbeal] “The redirect uri included is not valid. ”
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gRegorLove hehe
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[snarfed] logging in again? ugh yeah, i hit that during testing too. oauth works the first few times, then starts to fail like that. no idea why. redirect URI definitely matches the one registered with the API client, and sent in the initial redirect to them
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[snarfed] whee
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[dougbeal] Nope, already signed in
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[snarfed] sorry, i'm confused. where did you see that message?
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[snarfed] oh, publishing. yeah, same thing, oauth. whee
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[snarfed] oh actually nm, that's a publish bug i understand. can fix.
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[snarfed] [dougbeal] just to confirm, that was on trying to publish something, right?
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dougbeal|mb1 snarfed: yep
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@JamieTanna ↩️ @craigburgess Ooh interesting - do you know if @attending is Open Source? Would be cool to add IndieAuth support (twitter.com/_/status/1184891365374791680)
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[Rose] Oh dear, apparently I didn’t git push…
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[Rose] This is problematic
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[Rose] If anyone has any suggestions for retrieving unpushed git commits I’m all ears.
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sknebel [Rose]: call someone who can go to the machine and push them
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[Rose] I brought the keyboard and mouse with me.
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[schmarty] [Rose] if you can SSH into the machine, you can set it up as a remote and pull down to your local one.
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[Rose] I’ve been sending remote commands to the machine to do it, but it seems to be asleep (it should be on all the time)
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[schmarty] boo asleep
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sknebel send someone to poke it to wake it up?
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sknebel (of course probably doesn't solve your problem "now")
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[Rose] I’m asking my system administrator to enable ssh access through our network.
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[Rose] It has wake on LAN, and definitely runs scripts in the morning. I have two days to fix this before I need the theme :)
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[Rose] Thanks for the advice everyone! I’m too used to subversion.
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[Rose] Update: simplest was for him to ssh in on the local network and do git push. He’s looking for the folder because of course I’ve forgotten exactly where it is.
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[Rose] Folder located, and git pushed. I’ll be changing my IDE settings to do that automatically I think.
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[Rose] Thanks dev chat!
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[grantcodes] Has anyone made a micropub ui that makes use of service or user data from the syndicate-to config - example data: https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#h-syndication-targets
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[grantcodes] Working on my new micropub client stuff and wondering what I can do with that
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gRegorLove I think Quill does
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[grantcodes] I think I figured something out based on the ui from buffer
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[grantcodes] I guess I don't see it on quill since my endpoint only returns the name anyway 😅
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[dougbeal] [grantcodes] OmniBear makes checkboxes
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