#dev 2019-11-23

2019-11-23 UTC
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KartikPrabhu [manton]: I actually use the word "via" for webmentions recevied through Bridgy!
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KartikPrabhu i.e. if the source of the webmention does not match the u-url or u-uid, then the source goes into a "via"
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aaronpk I also use "via" when the source url domain doesn't match the domain of the url of the object of the page
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KartikPrabhu my reason to do that was 1) It displays data that I already have in a visible manner 2) it (maybe) promotes tools like Birdgy
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aaronpk mine was more that I don't want people to be able to fake webmentions from each other as comments on my site
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jacky needs to do that URL normalization thingy for fortress
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jacky because http://mysite.local and http://mysite.local/ are the same lol
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jacky just noticed he already solved it in his shared indieweb library 🤗
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[chrisaldrich] what is a hat tip?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "hat tip" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "hat tip is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[chrisaldrich] what is via?
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[chrisaldrich] I've apparently asked too many questions....
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[chrisaldrich] What is a via?
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[chrisaldrich] Loqi? Are you awake?
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[chrisaldrich] https://indieweb.org/via
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[chrisaldrich] ManualUntilItHurts++
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Loqi ManualUntilItHurts has 2 karma over the last year
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[chrisaldrich] [manton] there's also /giving-credit in addition to /via with some common patterns. I sort of wish I had a simpler way of doing this in WordPress and have even considered building a small plugin similar to Syndication Links for doing so.
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[tantek] [manton] if it’s common then step 1 is to document examples of it (as plain text) in the wild to see if it’s worth formalizing
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[tantek] Next would be to come up with a consumption use case
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[tantek] There needs to be a UI use case eg in a reader that would do something special with the information, and frankly some level of intent to implement something by a reader implementer.
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[tantek] Otherwise you’re just cluttering up the format for no user benefit
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] there’s a difference between via (I got this from this post - link) and hat-tip (I got this somehow from this person, maybe verbally, maybe in another chat etc)
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[tantek] via could be useful if any reader actually bothered with providing a good UI for citations or provenance but no one does that now AFAIK
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[tantek] both hat-tip and via could be useful for discovery of new folks to follow, though again, not sure of any readers that bother with kind of UI like that at all, even just for plain mentions of people in posts
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[tantek] I’d expect to see at least that kind of general UI interest before bothering with something so specialized as via or hat-tip
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[tantek] ^^^ not sure how to capture that as methodology or where regarding “should I add something to this format” but I’d like to because this kind of question comes up a lot in dev circles and the default dev instincts (“structure all the things!”) are typically wrong
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[tantek] (Bad for open format complexity and longevity)
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[KevinMarks] A silo example of via is twitter tracking retweets of retweets
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[KevinMarks] For example
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[tantek] worth adding to /via
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Zegnat What is via?
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[jeremycherfas] I’m not sure that the distinction between via and hat-tip is that clear for everybody. Sounds very prescriptive.
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[tantek] [jeremycherfas] nope not prescriptive. that's my observation of the patterns on Twitter
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[tantek] *posting patterns
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jgmac1106 may not make the video session so I wrote up my recent efforts into a post: https://jgregorymcverry.com/buildingvideopage
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[chrisaldrich] There's definitely a difference between the two but there's also some subtle overlap as well. Via is more often toward the neutral while hat tip generally has a more positive, honorary connotation. I didn't mean to conflate them, but they're certainly related concepts.
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Zegnat There was sort of a bloggers standard for that a while back. I think I added it to one of the wiki pages
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Zegnat The Curator’s Code. But looks like their site is down.
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Zegnat goes digging for a Web Archive link to add to the wiki
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Zegnat [chrisaldrich]: https://web.archive.org/web/20181207213253/http://curatorscode.org/ has a via vs h/t section at the top of the page. How well do you think their description of differences matches with yours?
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aaronpk via is a stop word in MySQL search
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chrisaldrich Their definition for hat tip: “HT” ↬ tends to stand for indirect discovery — something for which you got the idea at your source, but modified or elaborated on significantly when sharing with your audience.
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chrisaldrich Interesting and generally rings true to me but doesn't have the the chivalry related thank you implied as much
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chrisaldrich Thanks for the link zegnat I had bookmarked the wiki page specifically to look at that particular section..
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chrisaldrich Thanks for the link zegnat I had bookmarked the wiki page specifically to look at that particular section..
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chrisaldrich Interesting that slack seems to have dropped a lot of the other conversation. I had to switch to
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chrisaldrich Web to see the full context.
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[chrisaldrich] Wha is MT?
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[chrisaldrich] Some of this seems related to the Mt from Twitter as well.
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[jgmac1106] Do parsers and consumers ignore an h-entry if it is in a <pre> or <code>?
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[LewisCowles] would the quotes not still be converted to &rdquo; and &ldquo; ? I just checked it out on codepen, maybe they are doing some magic, but a pre-tag and a code tag render content within them still
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[LewisCowles] it's just whitespace aware AFAIK
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chrisaldrich gives Loqi some food.
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Loqi Thanks, chrisaldrich!
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chrisaldrich Glad to see you back Loqi!
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[LewisCowles] [jgmac1106] my last comment was towards parsers
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[jgmac1106] okay I am trying to figure out what i did wrong on this https://jgregorymcverry.com/buildingvideopage that threw an error message on indienews about multiple h-entries
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jgmac1106 ugg and then looking I see I used an ND image in my remix, gonna have to redo that
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[LewisCowles] canonical link has no space between attributes. It's moaning about that
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[LewisCowles] firefox is moaning about that
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[LewisCowles] [jgmac1106] what are you using to parse? https://pin13.net/mf2/ chomps through the html
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[jgmac1106] Ohh yeah I forgot that was in my header. Will remove.
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[LewisCowles] it says it's valid now, but also you deleted the canonical header.
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[jgmac1106] I know I delete the canonical header, but I am still getting the no link found on indienews..oh well
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[LewisCowles] I'm not sure about indienews specifically
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aaronpk try parsing the page with xray
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