#dev 2019-12-03

2019-12-03 UTC
[tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek]
oops I followed up in meta 🙂
ycon_, ben_thatmustbeme, [fluffy], [xavierroy] and [Ramiro_Ruiz] joined the channel
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[Ramiro_Ruiz]
Anyone with advance iOS shortcut knowledge?
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aaronpk
that would be [Rose] :)
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[Ramiro_Ruiz]
I want a better way to run specific shortcuts than just have to wait netlify to deploy (30-45sec) to then run the last part of the shortcut. I’m out of ideas so maybe someone with a fresh perspective can help me to come up with a work around.
jjuran, dopplergange, chrisaldrich, gRegorLove, jacky and [Rose] joined the channel
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[Rose]
Pushcut might help
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[Rose]
As in, when Netifly deploys have it also ping Pushcut (assuming that’s possible), and then you tap the pushcut notification on your device to run “part two”
cweiske, [tantek] and [Rose] joined the channel
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[tantek]
design << Beware of meaningless consistency in design: https://twitter.com/jmspool/status/1193719439772078080
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Loqi
ok, I added "Beware of meaningless consistency in design: https://twitter.com/jmspool/status/1193719439772078080" to the "See Also" section of /design https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=66828&oldid=64471
jbove, KartikPrabhu, satyanweshi, asymptotically, [LewisCowles] and mblaney joined the channel
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mblaney
what no we just use those products interchangeably here :-)
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sknebel
haha, reminds me a bit of ballistol, which is a German brand of paraffine oil (originally gun oil). They have products specifically for use on humans, on animals, and for technical purposes, but their basic product is "universal oil" which is recommended for use on all 3
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GWG
Anyone have any challenge plans for today?
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[Rose]
I want to sort out my homepage for my personal challenge
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jeremycherfas
I've done mine personal challenge for today. If I get enough paid work done, I might cheat and do tomorrow's.
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Zegnat
I am either continueing with my YouTube subscriptions export, or I will work on setting up a Cloudflare based CDN
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GWG
Look forward to seeing what people do
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GWG
Does anyone mark up u-syndication with anything else? Such as the name of the site being syndicated to?
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GWG
This seems like a Microformats question possibly
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swentel
GWG, tested token revocation with the wordpress indieauth plugin
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swentel
works fine now in indigenous
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swentel
I'm pretty impressed btw with de wordpress plugins in terms of usability
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swentel
much better than Drupal :)
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swentel
I need more out of the box config done there
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GWG
swentel: I try and get better with time
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GWG
swentel: If you have any feedback, we should compare config screens
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GWG
I always get feedback they could be better for newbies
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swentel
GWG, most users have trouble with the micropub setup, but that's more Drupal's 'fault'
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swentel
you need to configure a lot
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swentel
but it's daunting if you have no experience with indieweb and/or drupal
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swentel
the idea is to ship with a kick start module
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swentel
which performs a good default installation
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GWG
swentel: This is worthy of documenting somewhere
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GWG
I should do screenshots
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Loqi
totally
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swentel
GWG, even the indieweb start page is ten times more better than mine :)
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swentel
at admin.php?page=indieweb
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GWG
swentel: I had some good PRs from people about that
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GWG
But I saw your microformats config settings and I liked it
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swentel
I like it too heh
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swentel
it's in the spirit of Drupal, making everything configurable
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swentel
but new users have no clue what's going on :)
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swentel
oh well
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swentel
step by step
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swentel
after sunday, I have 3 weeks to hack away on drupal/indigenous
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swentel
I want to make the drupal side fully multi-user, it's only partially now
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swentel
and trying to get more stuff in the app too
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GWG
swentel: Do you have screenshots of your microformats settings page uploaded?
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swentel
GWG, don't think so no
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beko[m]
content with another party in this way, you may only share up to 50,000 hydrated public Tweet Objects and/or User Objects per recipient, per day, and should not make this data publicly available (for example, as an attachment to a blog post or in a public Github repository).` - what is hydrated anyway?
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beko[m]
til: TW want's tweets to be embedded and if not embedded at least styled in a very specific way https://developer.twitter.com/en/developer-terms/display-requirements.html - this kills any free design for backlinked responses. Uncertain to what extend `Redistribution of Twitter content` applies: `We permit limited redistribution of hydrated Twitter content via non-automated means. If you choose to share hydrated Twitter
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jacky
hydration is "refreshed" content
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jacky
this absolutely breaks koype then
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jacky
or at least can bring it to a place where it's broken
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jacky
I can revert it to be just a link to the page (which is trash)
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jacky
_or_ I can detect if there's a 'render' option for the URL and spit out Twitter's oembed info with some mf2 to point to the tweet
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[snarfed]
...having said that, it's worth distinguishing between principle and practice here. in principle, you're both right. in practice, pretty much all indieweb personal sites are too small for twitter to notice or care about. eg bridgy and twitter-atom, maybe. your sites (and mine), probably not.
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[snarfed]
(this comes from experience inside big silos and seeing how they actually manage and enforce these kinds of ToSes. others like [KevinMarks] and [tantek] can confirm)
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jacky
Right. I just don't want to be put in a crosshairs of sorts. That as well as giving people an option to "comply" doesn't hurt
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[snarfed]
oh sure. feel free if you want! i'm just saying pretty much all of us are too small for them to even notice, much less put crosshairs on.
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[snarfed]
on a related note, big publishers have struggled with this exact rule of twitter's for a long time when they want to include a tweet in an article. same "own your data" concerns we have. embeds may look nice, but they're brittle, dependent on twitter's servers, etc.
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jacky
True. I think they have a different angle for authorship in that case though
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gRegorLove
I feel like I still see publishers with tweet screenshots instead of embedding
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[snarfed]
yeah preservation is another point, since embeds die if the tweet gets deleted or the account gets shut down, etc
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beko
[snarfed]: don't worry, I'm with you on this topic. Just didn't know this before and was kinda surprised.
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beko
jacky: first time I read about "hydrated" for data. Thanks for clearing this up
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[snarfed]
"hydrate" is a twitter-ism, not commonly used anywhere else afaik
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sknebel
you see the term with server-side rendering and JS frameworks
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sknebel
What is hydrate?
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Loqi
hydrate is web developer jargon for the process of client-side JS taking over a DOM that was generated on the server, adding it to JS data structures, adding event handlers, … instead of generating page elements only on the client or entirely replacing those sent by the server https://indieweb.org/hydrate
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[snarfed]
oh interesting ok. not the world i live in. thanks!
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beko
Writing spas for years and first time I hear this.
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beko
all the fancy new words o0
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[KevinMarks]
Spa hydration? That sounds like something else
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[KevinMarks]
Don't twitter embeds fall back to a blockquote?
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[LewisCowles]
hydration as I know it is data object relational / active record pattern
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[snarfed]
[KevinMarks] yup, at least by default
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[LewisCowles]
maybe frontend co-opts everything in the end
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[tantek]
KevinMarks++ for spa hydration
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Loqi
KevinMarks has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (49 in all channels)
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[tantek]
jacky, beko et al the Twitter embedding stuff is not new, has been kind of like that for *years*
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[tantek]
there's a fair use / citation exception that they can't really claim any control over, so IANAL IMO it's fairly ignorable as long as you act in good faith
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[tantek]
e.g. if someone contacts you and asks to be removed, respect the request
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[snarfed]
heh yes not new, hence linking my post from 2013
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[snarfed]
the key is that they can disable your API access
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[tantek]
I think we even have a page on it
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[tantek]
because there's a use-case for an indieweb policy
chrisaldrich, jbove and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106]
I have no hard data but I feel like most publishers and news orgs have been quoting rather than embedding tweets much more often.
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[snarfed]
[jgmac1106] probably! with good reason. and many of them will be "big enough" that twitter notices them. one key difference may be that they're (probably) not using the API for that, and the terms we looked at are for API usage specifically.
Kongaloosh and [manton] joined the channel
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[manton]
I was curious about this so just confirmed that Twitter's embed is a blockquote + script tag. (I personally use blockquote manually when quoting anything, so that it looks consistent whether it's a blog post, tweet, news article, etc.)
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[manton]
By embedding a tweet with Twitter's script, it's kind of reinforcing that 280 characters of text is something special that only lives on Twitter's platform. End mini-rant.
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[snarfed]
yeah i expect both the terms and especially the enforcement differ somewhat between embedding individual tweets and using the API, since the latter is often larger scale
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[fluffy]
okay so: webmention.js is a quick single-file javascript library thing I implemented as a quick hack that other people started using, which is great
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[fluffy]
[tantek] suggested I start actually providing version numbers for it, when in reality each “release” of it is just, hey, I checked in another quick fix to it
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[fluffy]
so like every checkin *is* a release, more or less
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[fluffy]
does anyone have any opinions about how I can manage this better?
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[fluffy]
like since people are using it, having a semver would be valuable
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[snarfed]
depends on what people need the version for, if at all. commit hash is one lightweight way people do this, eg in a query param for cache busting
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[fluffy]
specifically tantek wanted a version number on the IndieWeb Challenge 2019 calendar
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[fluffy]
which is fair, but that means actually needing to start versioning it
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[fluffy]
which is also a fair request
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[fluffy]
like, at one point one of my “releases” was to fix an XSS bug, and having a reference point for that would be good, right?
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[fluffy]
but like I don’t want to go full-on release management whatever, like the last thing the web needs is yet another single-file npm package
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[fluffy]
but then again, people who are using npm for their js dependencies would absolutely benefit from one
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[fluffy]
but then that gets into territory of “I don’t wanna”
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[tantek]
fluffy, totally agree with not wanting to get into all that ceremony
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[tantek]
others have convinced me that the MVRM (min via rel mgmt) is doing a tagged version in GH and using semver for that tagging
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[snarfed]
agreed, that's common. github also does a lot for you for free then, eg release history UI, changelog, permalinks per release version
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aaronpk
yeah i've been getting in the habit of semver tagging via github. the workflow is pretty minimal for it and has a bunch of perks built in like [snarfed] said
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[tantek]
I think aaronpk may have been who convinced me
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[tantek]
previously I was like yeah just use top of tree 😉
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[snarfed]
heh. expecting head to always be usable is reasonable for small projects, less so for bigger ones. nice goal, just not always realistic or doable.
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[tantek]
agreed. though my workflow makes it workable for CASSIS (I deploy versions to test them on my own site in production *before* checking them in to head on github)
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[tantek]
re: Twitter publishing guidelines thread btw, see /display-guidelines and feel free to add to it, especially concerns, issues, brainstorming etc.