#dev 2019-12-04

2019-12-04 UTC
ghjghjghjdgfhj, [davidmead] and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
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[KevinMarks] I see twitter's js as a decorator on underlying semantic html, as benward designed it. If it distinguished between nonexistent and deleted tweets it would be more useful. Im not sure that hydration is the right metaphor.
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[KevinMarks] What is jamstack?
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Loqi JAMstack is a web development architecture based on client-side JavaScript, reusable APIs, and prebuilt Markup https://indieweb.org/JAMstack
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[Ramiro_Ruiz] Is it possible to have a IFTTT applet that if new feed item then make a web request to brid.gy to publish them?
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[KevinMarks] So is my site jamstack? It has static files with js running client side that calls webmention.herokuapp.com
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I feel like [calumryan] (who ran a session on JAMStack at IWC Brighton) would be a good person to answer that.
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[KevinMarks] It's always fun when there's a trendy new name for things you're already doing
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[KevinMarks] I'm looking forward to a name for the "construct a json-like structure and write slightly too much logic in jinja2/nunjucks templates" approach I've been using to replace the old school PHP approach
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[snarfed] unintentional indieweb: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1201946168663654406
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@paulg Don't start a startup where you need to go through someone else to get users. (twitter.com/_/status/1201946168663654406)
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jacky totally haven't made any "progress" the last two days
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jacky TIL that I can grab my current location and battery level via Nextcloud
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jacky this is useful :)
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GWG jacky: What else are you doing with Nextcloud?
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jacky to be honest, that's it for now
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jacky I use it for general "life" storage
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jacky debated putting passwords in there but I've been using bitwarden and its client apps + extensions are on 1password's level so no need
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GWG I store various things on mine, but it isn't integrated.
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jacky integrated into your site?
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jacky I have OsmAnd on my phone for routing and use the PhoneTrack app for Nextcloud
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jacky I think those two together should give me RT location + stats I can use else where
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jacky it's already logged :)
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GWG jacky: Yes. I have some ideas
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[fluffy] so I’m looking into finally adding h-feed support to Pushl, and I’m finding that… there’s not a lot of h-feeds out there, huh. And the few I’m finding, mf2py doesn’t seem to recognize for some reason?
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[fluffy] like when I run mf2py on https://tantek.com/ it only returns a single h-card and no entries
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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[fluffy] oh, I see, the <body> has an h-card markup so the h-feed is contained inside of it
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[fluffy] that seems… wrong
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[fluffy] but oh well, I think the appropriate thing to do is to just traverse the entire items array and then slurp up all h-entry items anyway
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aaronpk heh I agree
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aaronpk I am not a fan of that pattern and i have some code in XRay that's basically only for consuming Tantek's website
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[fluffy] ok maybe a philosophical question: should Pushl only send webmentions from h-entry, or is there a reason to send it from, say, h-card, h-event, etc.?
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[fluffy] like, anything with a u-url param?
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[fluffy] er, property
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[fluffy] ok never mind, h-card definitely not
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[fluffy] and it seems like at least tanek’s h-events shouldn’t be either
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[fluffy] ok yeah I’ll just send them from h-entry
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[jeremycherfas] Sorry to hijack your thread but are you using OsmAndMaps on an iPhone? For me it crashes every time I launch it.
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Zegnat “have some code in XRay that's basically only for consuming Tantek's website” – like how Granary contains code just for rhiaro’s website? :D
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Zegnat [fluffy]: I have sent webmentions from my h-card
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[fluffy] That seems like such a special-case thing that anyone who wants to do that would be doing it manually anyway
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[fluffy] Pushl is just for like, tracking and automatically updating webmentions and websub
wgirl, jjuran, cweiske2, AkyRhO, treora, wgirl_, logiti, [LewisCowles], gxt, asymptotically, [LewisCowles]1, JellieDiscord[m], junyouDiscord[m] and [KevinMarks] joined the channel; dindustriesDisco left the channel
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[KevinMarks] I must admit I've written code that digs through nested mf2 structures looking for ones I recognise too
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GWG aaronpk, Zegnat. fluffy: I have Tantek specific code also. I am just rolling with it.
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Zegnat [fluffy] in my case, I added XFN links to my h-card (who are friends, who I met, etc). And for those changes I can then send webmentions to the people I have added to that (hidden) list.
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Zegnat Theoretically, websub could help there too, where I would let people know my relation to them has changed
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Zegnat I don’t think anyone else does that though ;)
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cweiske relationship breakup by websub would be a first
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Zegnat Maybe as part of an update to SWAT0, cweiske? ;)
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swentel GWG, contacts autocomplete works too now
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swentel you'll have a lot to hack on :)
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GWG swentel: I don't have contacts yet
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swentel well, indigenous supports it so you'll have client to test with already if you implement it one day
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swentel will release in a few hours
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jeremycherfas Arrgh. Suddenly getting 500 errors for my site. Cannot restart Apache. Have restarted the server once. Everything else on the server works. I've raised a ticket with DreamHost. In the meantime, is there anything else I could try?
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[LewisCowles] htaccess edits. Try rolling them back
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[LewisCowles] Dreamhost is a mare
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jeremycherfas Didn't touch them, honest guv.
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[LewisCowles] the other way to test is to make a new folder from shell / sftp /ftp login, and change your home folder to one of those, but if you’ve not touched a .htaccess file, maybe that is not the issue.
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[LewisCowles] let me re-familiarise myself with panel.dreamhost.com
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jeremycherfas Don't put yourself out; I think I can see the ticket being worked on. But weirdly, tail -f error.log shows nothing.
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[LewisCowles] is it a VPS?
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[LewisCowles] or shared hosting thing?
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jeremycherfas VPS
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jeremycherfas For me, most of the time, DreamHost works well. The extra work of having to learn another host puts me off changing. I'm not expert enough to use Linode, for example.
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[LewisCowles] Yeah I only use them for shared, DO & AWS for VPS. Still I wonder if you get the same UI? I just found a files option with my users which shows modification date, permissions, and lets me click through the UI
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[LewisCowles] it’s ultimately about what you are comfortable with
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[LewisCowles] not everyone needs to become an admin
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[LewisCowles] Apache has a check for it’s config right?
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jeremycherfas The first test my CMS suggests is to see whether phpinfo.php will run from that folder, and it does.
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jeremycherfas I cannot check anything to do with Apache from SSH
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[LewisCowles] then have you tried setting the PHP error_reporting and display_errors?
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[LewisCowles] Apache should be working if phpinfo is
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[LewisCowles] it’s likely that it couldn’t launch a second apache
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[LewisCowles] which is fine. Machines generally need work to run two web-servers
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jeremycherfas No, haven't tried that. Does it mean editing php.init?
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[LewisCowles] is there a common file your PHP loads early?
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jeremycherfas Don't know.
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[LewisCowles] config.php, or autoload.php?
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[LewisCowles] do you know what system(s) you run that use PHP? is it entirely custom?
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jeremycherfas It is Grav CMS. I've got to go out anyway for an hour or so. So I will do that and see whether time heals all, or whether DH responds to my ticket.
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jeremycherfas [LewisCowles]++ for vital help
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Loqi [LewisCowles] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas Worst comes to worst, I can just nuke everything and then re-upload the entire CMS and flat files and see what happens. I also have a full backup from this morning.
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swentel GWG, released, have fun :)
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[fluffy] Dreamhost VPS is a nightmare.
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[fluffy] There are way better, cheaper VPS options out there which give you an actual host slice and not just a poorly managed kernel container
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jeremycherfas Is there an option you would recommend [fluffy] that is reasonably easy to use? I am not an admin, obvs, and I am willing to put some work into learning, but as I said, Linode was too bare bones for me.
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[fluffy] Hmm, I personally use linode but I also don’t mind admin overhead. I think they offer a cpanel instance? Maybe DigitalOcean
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jeremycherfas If Linode offers a panel, that's new. I'll look again at DO
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[fluffy] I’ve also heard good things about nearlyfreespeech. I think they just do a kernel container too but it’s managed way more humanely and also coats way less
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jeremycherfas Might be time nuke and restore.
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[fluffy] *costs
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[fluffy] My big gripe with DH VPS is the way they manage memory size. They look at total allocation size and if you exceed it for even a moment they reboot your virt. They don’t provide any way of just limiting the allocation size, and the size includes your kernel cache and buffers - which they allow to grow freely
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[fluffy] And when I complained about this and explained why it’s a problem they pointed me to a condescending help page explaining what I’d just said right back to me.
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[fluffy] Like yes I know what a cache is, y’all
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[fluffy] I also know there’s no point in making a cache grow unbounded when the hit rate is like 1%
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[fluffy] So basically every time google crawled my site it would try to load alllllllll my files into the kernel cache
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[fluffy] If I were on a real VPS the kernel would have just evicted the stuff it didn’t need instead of holding onto it forever
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[LewisCowles] DO is pretty solid, sorry I was on a customer call
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[LewisCowles] I’m sure we can get grav to tell you what is wrong though
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[fluffy] Support folks didn’t even care that at the time I worked at amazon on their caching fleet so
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[LewisCowles] it has an index.php right
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[LewisCowles] ini_set(‘display_errors’, 1);
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[LewisCowles] error_reporting(E_ALL);
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[fluffy] Anyway yeah that’s worth trying.
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[LewisCowles] you can `E_ALL ~ E_NOTICE` if you like
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[fluffy] You can also try forcing DH to rebuild your ini
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[fluffy] Which you can generally do by making a trivial configuration change and waiting a while
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[fluffy] Like wobble your php version
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[fluffy] Although for PHP hosting there isn’t much reason to use VPS over shared hosting. Was there a specific reason you switched?
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[fluffy] (Also I’m disappearing for a bit)
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jeremycherfas I'm currently working my way through this. https://learn.getgrav.org/16/troubleshooting/permissions
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jeremycherfas And so far, I've learned that my Apache user is jeremyg+ while jeremygrav owns the files in my directory.
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[LewisCowles] although that could be it, wouldn’t it have come up before now?
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[snarfed] [LewisCowles] [fluffy] please add to https://indieweb.org/web_hosting#Virtual_Private_Server !
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[fluffy] Permissions issues usually manifest in a 4xx rather than a 5xx
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[fluffy] At least in php and static files.
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[LewisCowles] unless it’s an excutable bit on a file
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[fluffy] CGI will usually cause a 5xx
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[LewisCowles] or a file it’s blindly including / opening with no guards
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[fluffy] I’ve not seen that cause a status code in php, usually that causes a php error or your site getting hacked
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[fluffy] I mean a php script can specifically generate a status code in that case but if it’s doing that it’s also probably checking what it opened :)
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jeremycherfas Tricky trying to run this down while at the same time making 6 loaves of bread, but at least in one I know what I'm doing.
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[fluffy] In any case, last I was aware dreamhost uses php-fcgi which runs a userspace php server with your own account permissions so most php permissions guides aren’t relevant
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[fluffy] The permissions are tied to what your account can see, not what Apache can see
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[fluffy] And as much as I complain about dreamhost I legitimately appreciate their configuration around this
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jacky jeremycherfas: lol
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[fluffy] I wish all shared hosting providers did it
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[fluffy] It’s better for security and also gives users better control over their own files
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[fluffy] Anyway as far as cpanel on linode goes I think they just give you a choice of it when you go to provision your server. It’s been a while since I provisioned one though.
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[LewisCowles] I’m now thinking about bread
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jeremycherfas OK, diving into index.php now.
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[LewisCowles] The app I’m working on has some data I don’t love
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[LewisCowles] one of which is yeast as a skill
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[fluffy] If anything it seems more likely they removed cpanel when they pivoted over to service fleet provisioning rather than “legacy” persistent servers
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jeremycherfas I'm your man for that.
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[LewisCowles] yeast or pivoting cpanel?
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[LewisCowles] :p\
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[LewisCowles] 😛
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[fluffy] (I still run a persistent server with them but I worry I might have to scramble to migrate when they decide this isn’t profitable enough)
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[fluffy] Anyway I’ll try to add stuff to the wiki but right now is a terrible time for me to hyper focus on that
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[fluffy] As in half an hour I have an appointment to finally talk to a psychiatrist about my ADHD, fittingly enough :P
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aaronpk linode doesn't use cpanel
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aaronpk it's their own homegrown thing
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jeremycherfas Error reporting in phpinfo now shows 22519 but I still get a blank page with a 500 error when I try to load the site. Should the errors be displayed, or will they only be in the error.log?
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[Rose] You can get the errors to display
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[Rose] In user/config/system.ayml set this:
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[Rose] ```errors:
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[Rose] display: false
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[Rose] log: true```
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[Rose] Sorry, change this, so display is set to true
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[Rose] (After you fix your issues you should change it back to false)
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[LewisCowles] is this specific to that PHP software? I’ve never seen that notation in PHP. Happy to learn but it looks like yaml
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jeremycherfas OK, I'll try that. Thanks [Rose].
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jeremycherfas Yes [LewisCowles] That is the config.yaml for the Grav cms
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[Rose] It is yaml, I mangled the file extension
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jeremycherfas I currently have display: 1 Will change that.
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[Rose] 1 is true
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[Rose] Thankfully YAML and PHP both understand 1 to be true.
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[Rose] So if you’re seeing a white page it’s not even getting that far, you’ll have to debug with the PHP error log and the Grav log
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jeremycherfas That's what I thought. And I'm still seeing nothing, just the empty page.
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[Rose] Uh oh
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[fluffy] [aaronpk] it’s their homegrown thing for server provisioning but I thought you could also provision a server with cpanel preinstalled to make managing the services on it easier
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jeremycherfas Oh, it gets worse. Error.log seems to be empty. I'll check the http one now.
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aaronpk ah the "one-click app", i've never used that
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jeremycherfas OK. Seems like I put my error reporting mods too early in index.php
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[LewisCowles] dump the PHP from above into the index.php. (leaving yaml as-is) it should at least spit out PHP then (unless index.php needs `chmod +x`
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jeremycherfas OK. I truly do not believe this. After moving the error reporting, the page loads fine. I have to think it is a coincidence and that SDH did something in the meantime.
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jeremycherfas DH
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jeremycherfas Presumably I should comment out that error reporting now?
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[Rose] Yes
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[LewisCowles] I added it to the wiki, but added a note about it being better to do it offline (on your own PC) with reasons why
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[LewisCowles] I added it to FAQ rather than add a troubleshooting section though
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[LewisCowles] 😬
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jeremycherfas [fluffy]++ [Rose]++ That's quite enough excitement for one evening. Off to see whether DH has anything to say for themselves.
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Loqi [fluffy] has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (51 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas [Rose]++
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Loqi [Rose] has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (67 in all channels)
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GWG Does this make sense? To posse to micro.blog from Micropub, I would have to...when the checkbox is checked...add the post to a custom feed, then ping micro.blog to refresh that feed, then schedule a cron job for a minute or two later to poll the json api for my account and find the id to derive the hidden url for it and display as a syndication link
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aaronpk how do i find my micro.blog json api URL?
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jacky ^
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jacky I think it's https://micro.blog/ping IIRC
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aaronpk i didn't think about adding it as a syndication link on my site
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jacky I saw that URL in here before
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aaronpk ah it's https://micro.blog/posts/aaronpk
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jacky I'd be down if it helps micro.blog clients do some PTD for their own sites
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jacky aaronpk: where'd you find that?
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aaronpk view source on https://micro.blog/aaronpk
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jacky the source is strong for you :)
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aaronpk all my posts have a url on my own website, not micro.blog
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aaronpk ah i can reverse engineer the micro.blog URL from the id
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aaronpk https://micro.blog/aaronpk/6876999
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Loqi [aaronpk] I finally started documenting all the home automation devices and apps I use, with the main goal of everything running locally! Here's a fun list to browse through if you're looking for some holiday shopping ideas! https://aaronparecki.com/home-aut...
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aaronpk hmm should i be linking to that as a syndication link from my original post? i hadn't considered that
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jacky could help if micro.blog clients have a URL handler for micro.blog links
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GWG aaronpk: I figured that out
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GWG That is what I am planning on doing
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[Rose] I would be interested in showing a link to the post on Micro.Blog
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GWG I think I could make it a project at IWC SF as I could realistically do that in a shortened day
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GWG [Rose]: Stay tuned, I am going to build it
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aaronpk theoretically micro.blog should be sending webmentions back to me for all the replies anyway, so there isn't anything new to see by visiting the post on micro.blog right?
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GWG aaronpk: No, but for me it's a..share with me via micro.blog offer
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GWG The same way I care about the tweet url because it shows where people who only Live on Twitter can find me
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aaronpk oh right okay
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aaronpk i guess i always assumed anyone who was only using micro.blog would be finding my posts from within micro.blog in the first place and wouldn't need to get to the micro.blog version from my website
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GWG It's fine either way
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GWG I just want to posse per post
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GWG And two people want the link back
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GWG Myself and [Rose]
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[fluffy] Okay I’m back, can add my various notes/talking points to the VPS wiki page now 🙂
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[snarfed] [fluffy]++
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Loqi [fluffy] has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (52 in all channels)
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[fluffy] I mean I guess all I had to add to the wiki page was my experience with Dreamhost VPS
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[manton] I think this question about getting the Micro.blog link (or getting a Webmention with it) is the same as this issue on GitHub... Anything missing? https://github.com/microdotblog/issues/issues/79
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #79 Notify original post of syndication
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aaronpk ah right the idea was to have micro.blog send a webmention to tell the original post about the syndication link! i like it
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[manton] I'm not sure why I haven't added this yet. I like the suggestion there of making it opt-in to start with just in case it messes with web sites showing replies. I'm a little unclear in that GitHub issue how an external site would interpret it as a "syndication notification".
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aaronpk yeah def make it opt in
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aaronpk my site would receive the webmention, and see that the post is an h-entry with a u-syndication URL that is from my website
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aaronpk oops no wrong way
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aaronpk my site would see that the micro.blog page has a rel=canonical url of my website
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aaronpk so that's how it would know not to show it as a comment, and instead add the micro.blog URL as a syndication of my own post
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[manton] Okay. Currently on that page the link has an u-url but not rel=canonical. That is a simple change, though.
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aaronpk let me check, u-url might be enough
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aaronpk ah i see in eddie's description it says "if it uses microformats then use u-url"
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aaronpk i wonder what happens if i send a webmention from a micro.blog url to my post right now
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[manton] I also wonder that. 🙂
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aaronpk hah yea it shows up as a comment
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[manton] Oops, okay. You tested with https://micro.blog/aaronpk/6876999?
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Loqi [aaronpk] I finally started documenting all the home automation devices and apps I use, with the main goal of everything running locally! Here's a fun list to browse through if you're looking for some holiday shopping ideas! https://aaronparecki.com/home-aut...
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aaronpk yea
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aaronpk but yeah the markup there is enough
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aaronpk my site should recognize that the u-url matches that post, and not show it as a comment
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[manton] Basically on those "conversation" pages, it uses `h-entry` only for the post from the ID in the URL.
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aaronpk should probably remove in-reply-to when it's the top post
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[manton] Oh yeah, good catch. Thanks.
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aaronpk hm rel=canonical seems like a more appropriate thing here
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aaronpk also in the traditional sense too
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[manton] [aaronpk] I've updated that to add rel=canonical and also hide the in-reply-to when it doesn't make sense.
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[manton] If you have a minute, let me know if it looks better.
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aaronpk that was fast!
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[manton] In your example, there will actually be multiple replies with rel=canonical, because both the main post and your replies on that page all have their own web pages on your own site. Wonder if that will confuse anything? Only the post being linked to has h-entry.
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aaronpk hm yeah that's not good
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aaronpk it should have only one rel-canonical value
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aaronpk the one that matches the h-entry
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[manton] Yeah, that does seem weird... Okay, fixed now.
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aaronpk awesome
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aaronpk ok i can update my site to handle webmentions from these pages properly
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aaronpk oh except my computer is on its way back via fedex so that might have to wait til tomorrow or friday
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[manton] I think I confused myself looking at these related issues. I added rel=canonical on the a tag on the page, but it should probably be a link tag in the header, right?
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aaronpk Doesn't matter
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[manton] Cool.
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aaronpk This is what I see: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2Faaronpk%2F6876999
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Loqi [aaronpk] I finally started documenting all the home automation devices and apps I use, with the main goal of everything running locally! Here's a fun list to browse through if you're looking for some holiday shopping ideas! https://aaronparecki.com/home-aut...
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GWG [manton]: Scrolling up. Thanks for looking again
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GWG [manton]: The question I asked in the micro.blog slack....
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[manton] @GWG Oh yeah, I'll answer over there but also here: if you are sending a "ping" to Micro.blog, the feed URL does have to be in Micro.blog already.
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[manton] The idea was to have a way to tell Micro.blog to refresh a feed right away, rather than wait for Micro.blog to poll it. WebSub is a better long-term solution too for sites that support it.
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aaronpk That's basically all websub is anyway :-)
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GWG [manton]: Using a custom feed and syndication is a good hack day project for me on Sunday at IWC SF
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GWG I just don't have time to do websub
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GWG Camp closes before 3
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[manton] [aaronpk] I added this to the GitHub discussion, but can you confirm I've got the parameters right for this? 🙂
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[manton] > Micro.blog should send a Webmention to the external site when Micro.blog creates a record of it in the Micro.blog timeline. The target will be the canonical URL, and the source will be the Micro.blog page for the post
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aaronpk that looks right
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[manton] Thanks.
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GWG Looking forward to that
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