#dev 2019-12-05

2019-12-05 UTC
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GWG Re the RSVP discussion elsewhere, whatever happened to web actions
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[tantek] GWG, web actions requires some pretty intense focused UI thinking / design work to iterate further
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[tantek] I think that's the point we're at
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[tantek] and then hopefully figure out how to make it less of a polyfill and more of a series of web standards proposals
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[tantek] GWG, we likely need to review the state of current implementations / deployments, see who it is working for (or not), and also review brainstorms and update those, then figure out next steps on web actions accordingly.
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[tantek] The goals remain the same, to be able to one-click respond across sites the way that you can currently inside a silo
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GWG I just think we stopped iterating
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GWG I know I did because there wasn't much going on and I had other lower hanging fruit
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GWG Session at SF?
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gRegorLove I'd be interested in that, if only to catch up on it. Haven't thought about web actions in a while
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GWG Seriously neither have I
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GWG I think it may be defunct
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GWG Well, [tantek] still has them
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[tantek] I would still be interested yeah
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[tantek] GWG, if you want to do a session it would help A LOT to do the editorial work on updating the page (per what I said above) in advance instead of spending the whole session time doing that
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jacky got indigenous for android running from source :)
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GWG [tantek]: I think I can handle that. There's a lot I need to do, but that seems doable.
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GWG jacky: How are your Android dev skills?
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[tantek] GWG, feel free to do small incremental updates to the page and ask questions when you're not sure about something
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[tantek] the page could likely be improved with larger re-organization
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GWG [tantek]: I was going to go through the implementations and see if any were lost
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[tantek] that's a good start. then don't remove them but just update them noting that they seem to be inactive as of DATE
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jacky GWG: moderately okay
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jacky I did more Android work before I went full on systems/web(ish) stuff
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jacky I'm going to look for small things to tweak and open PRs
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GWG jacky: I am still hoping someone writes an Overland for Android
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takev[m] Overland?
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aaronpk Doesn't owntracks cover that?
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GWG aaronpk: It doesn't have trip mapping features
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GWG Owntracks and GPSLogger are designed for other things.
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GWG It can't do the activity stuff.
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aaronpk ahh
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aaronpk I forgot about that even though i use it literally every day lol
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GWG aaronpk: When did Indienews stop having action elements?
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aaronpk did it ever?
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GWG https://indieweb.org/webactions#Indienews
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GWG According to this it did in 2013
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aaronpk huh i have no idea
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aaronpk i don't remember that at all
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gRegorLove what is owntracks
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Loqi OwnTracks is an open source app for tracking your location and sharing with others, available on iOS and (unmaintained) Android https://indieweb.org/OwnTracks
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GWG Android is no longer unmaintained
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GWG Hmm...this is depressing, most of the webactions citations are dead links
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gRegorLove I was wondering about that; github looks active with releases
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GWG [tantek]: Read through the page. Lots of stuff, but everything is years old.
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[tantek] Yea
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[tantek] GWG can you look up the dead links on archive.org to at least cite their latest state before they went offline?
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[tantek] Hopefully all my links work :)
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GWG I'm talking about the people using webactions.
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GWG Not the references
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[tantek] Yeah I’m afraid you may find that to be a problem in any page of “IndieWeb Examples”
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[tantek] Not unique to Web actions
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[tantek] Probably mostly the same people too
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GWG I discovered that when I did h-feed examples a few months ago
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[LewisCowles] what is unfurl?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unfurl" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "unfurl is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[LewisCowles] what is oEmbed
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Loqi oEmbed is a JSON/XML-based format for providing information to construct a link-preview of a page https://indieweb.org/oEmbed
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[LewisCowles] unfurl is /oEmbed
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Loqi ok
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[LewisCowles] unfurl << https://medium.com/slack-developer-blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-unfurling-but-were-afraid-to-ask-or-how-to-make-your-e64b4bb9254
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Loqi ok, I added "https://medium.com/slack-developer-blog/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-unfurling-but-were-afraid-to-ask-or-how-to-make-your-e64b4bb9254" to the "See Also" section of /oEmbed https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=66892&oldid=45472
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[LewisCowles] This term was used in a PR at work, and besides making me mad, I thought if people start using it, at least it defines a thing we have
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[LewisCowles] damn, I have redirected it to the wrong place though...
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[LewisCowles] what is link preview?
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Loqi A link preview is what posts show about one or more embedded links, e.g https://indieweb.org/link-preview
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[LewisCowles] unfurl is /link-preview
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[LewisCowles] maybe I have to manually fix that. Good Loqi
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[LewisCowles] fixed.
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[LewisCowles] what is unfurl?
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Loqi A link preview is what posts show about one or more embedded links, e.g https://indieweb.org/unfurl
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[LewisCowles] gives Loqi a hug
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Loqi Thanks, [LewisCowles]!
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[Rose] gives Loqi a cookie
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[Rose] Whoops, wrong channel
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[Rose] But, I fixed my Navbar on mobile last night!
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Loqi enjoys the cookie
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[LewisCowles] Well done
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[LewisCowles] I don't think I knew it was broken or what was wrong
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[LewisCowles] was it fun?
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[Rose] Not really
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[Rose] I used a class from GitHub to make my menu (because otherwise I'd have had to write the same thing), but unfortunately they didn't quite manage to tie everything up.
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[Rose] It was trying to toggle something that didn't exist. Which unsurprisingly doesn't work
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[LewisCowles] 👍 part of the “joy” of coding I guess
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[LewisCowles] eventually there will be a DSL for it or a declarative collapse menu HTML / CSS
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[Rose] Yup, eventually.
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jacky I'm trying out OwnTracks, it's _pretty_ clean
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jacky you can use it with Nextcloud (I actually think I might drop PhoneTrack in favor of this app)
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swentel jacky, I moved the q=contact block to the micropub extensions page
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jacky niceeeee
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swentel at some point we'll have to open an issue on github too, maybe when koype supports it?
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jacky It technically does but it doesn't support filtering
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swentel I'm going to add a 'contacts' list in indigenous too so you can view/edit them too
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jacky and it'll need to support that ^
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jacky re: tracking, I'm going to try out both phonetrack and owntracks and see which I end up liking more
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takev[m] [LewisCowles]: There is no joy in coding. Just smug satisfaction at getting something work. :P
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takev[m] something to work*
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[LewisCowles] You get things to work takev[m]… (walks into background)
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[LewisCowles] 😉
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takev[m] Lol
eleitlDiscord[m], junyouDiscord[m], galetsDiscord[m], macerbi[m], M{|}Discord[m], Romaric[m]1, bmiller59[m], lyon[m], AXEL-Brian[m], wngrDiscord[m], vinDiscord[m], rklaehn[m], andrewxhill[m], ritewhose[m], rittme[m], mZ[m], phynite8462[m], IgutinDiscord[m], cristobalDiscord, Akshay[m]1, allhailferristhe, jgmac1106[m], aaronpk[m], ecrosstexas[m], celso[m]1, kevinbird15Disco, Zegnat, voxpelli, myfreeweb, vilhalmer, jmac, ludovicchabant, strugee, KartikPrabhu, [LewisCowles], puaka, jeremycherfas, barrygDiscord[m], kongaloosh__, gRegorLove, j605, AkyRhO, cramjaDiscord[m], bonedaddyDiscord, zentartoxDiscord, silent_Activist[, M}Discord[m], tom85[m], DaniellMesquitaD, MissLavenderDisc, Clment[m], jamiedubsDiscord, FusonDiscord[m], r5723013Discord[, BigDuckEnergyDis, nocentDiscord[m], Swedneck_, placer141276[m], M9uapawDiscord[m, RealSnazzy[m], romaric[m], npfossDiscord[m], IPFSFanDiscord[m, nijynotDiscord[m, MisterGoreDiscor, techcoderxDiscor, captain-nemoDisc, AppenzellDiscord, RockSteadyTRTL75, SchwartzDiscord[, TianyiDiscord[m], MikeShultzDiscor, M4eekDiscord[m], OxyDiscord[m], foxcoolDiscord[m, UsamaIrfanDiscor, LordFenixNCDisco, hvergara[m], JohnnyMilkshakes, KYZITEMELOS93Dis, AlekseyDiscord[m, M2color6412[m], ScottSmileyDisco, zcopleyDiscord[m, tangoDiscord[m], PhillmacDiscord[, jklepatchDiscord, DiscordBridge[m4, sekiDiscord[m], romaricDiscord[4, matyas_mustohaDi, sebasariasDiscor, enricomarino[m], KevlarmonkeyDisc, sukarDiscord[m], halifox4409[m], MichaelTenDiscor, PeciakDiscord[m], FineDiscord[m], ay2306Discord[m], doodlemaniaDisco, jessicaschilling, malaclypsDiscord, DioBrandonDiscor, GWG, sarahDiscord[m], swentel, sebsel, oodani, dietricha, NinjaTrappeur, aaronpk, nloadholtes, shakeel, raucao, viaken, jimpick, shah^ and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
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[jgmac1106] I use trackbook on Android
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[jgmac1106] it used GPSLogger and does a decent job
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sknebel GWG if you only miss the ability to manually mark trips, GPSlogger can afaik be controlled via intents, so you could make buttons for that with Tasker
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[KevinMarks] Can you use details/summary for a declarative collapse menu?
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[jgmac1106] Kevin I remember somebody posting directions on how I could do that for my resume so details/summary could default open on a print query but collapse normally.
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[jgmac1106] gwg looks like track editing and markers will not be coming to trackbook: https://github.com/y20k/trackbook
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Loqi [y20k] trackbook: Trackbook - Movement Recorder for Android
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jeremycherfas Anyone using Pelle's webmention.herokuapp.com? I currently use the script offered to embed webmentions if there are any. To be honest, I don't really know exactly what the script does. What I would like to do, however, is determine whether there are currently any webmentions for the URL and then use that to determine what to display. Does that seem possible?
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GWG sknebel: I continue to file issues with Gpslogger
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jeremycherfas I mean, clearly it is possible. The script seems to set a variable called sn.src to the result of a call to the embed part of the API. If that's empty, then there's nothing there. I'm wondering, though, how I can make use of that variable to do other things in the document.
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Zegnat jeremycherfas: definitely possible :)
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jeremycherfas Guess I'm going to have to add learn javascript to my list of things to do.
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jeremycherfas Currently wrangling <details> and <summary>
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Zegnat The standard embed from voxpelli uses the /api/embed endpoint to grab HTML. But there is also a /api/mentions endpoint that gives nice JSON.
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Zegnat You could write a little JS that fetches the JSON format for the current page, and only if that is not an empty JSON array actually do the embed.
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jgmac1106 I can never get past adding a domain to voxpellie heroku app. I just get “Error Failed to Add Domain” has never worked for me
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Zegnat jgmac1106: maybe it is full up again?
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jgmac1106 not sure, I wait, one day will get the lotto ticket…probably a good thing, not ready to spend the time figuring out how to display all my mentions…..I have them collection in webmentions.io
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jgmac1106 right now I am working on a monthly view of my notes, I figure I will set up an h-feed and then use pagination at the month level
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Zegnat If you have them in webmentions.io already, you do not really need webmention heroku. You’d just lose your historic webmentions then
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[jgmac1106] ahh thanks,so few I may just manually add so I canatleast play with layout
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jgmac1106 question on pagination and h-feed? Do I add an h-feed to each page. I would assume so
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jeremycherfas No indication from DreamHost what the problem was, or that it fixed itself, but today I was shocked to discover that my memory used had gone down from an average of 60,000 MB to 11314 MB. As ever, no idea why. Maybe tomorrow will go up again.
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[LewisCowles] Oh they fixed something alright
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jeremycherfas They must have.
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[LewisCowles] Maybe you need to set max memory to 64MB (although that seems a lot for showing a personal webpage)
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jeremycherfas I feel befuddled looking at the daily status report I get. Ideally I'd like a set of traffic lights or a narrative that tells me what the various PIDs etc mean. Total memory is 128
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jgmac1106 !mf2 https://jgregorymcverry.com/notes/mynotes2
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Kaja___ https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Fnotes%2Fmynotes2
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jgmac1106 what I am looking at for a note feed, but worried abotu doing a month by month view as it might get too big a page
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[manton] [aaronpk] I added the "send a Webmention when Micro.blog reads your feed" feature, but I'm having a difficult time coming up with the UI to enable it that won't confuse 99% of users. Until I have a UI for it, I can enable it manually on your or anyone's feed.
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aaronpk [manton]: haha okay! i need to update my site to handle that first before turning it on for me. i'll let you know
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[tantek] I feel like we discussed sending such back webmentions from POSSE copied before and I thought Aaronpk was strongly against it in the past
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aaronpk was i?
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[tantek] Maybe I’m confusing a different salmentions or reply-contexts downstream webmentioning
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aaronpk we tried it out yesterday. I dropped the micro.blog URL of one of my posts in my webmention form to see what would happen
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[tantek] I’ve lost track of all the ways we use and have proposed using Webmentions 😂
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[tantek] How can you tell the difference between a Mb copy like that and someone reposting you on MB or elsewhere?
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[tantek] (Without markup to tell you)
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aaronpk the micro.blog page has rel=canonical back to my post
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[tantek] well that's a good way to do it
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[tantek] I think. I mean there's still the vuln that an attacker could do that and just put spam on their page to make you link to it as a POSSE copy
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aaronpk sure but that's not too different from regular webmention spam
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aaronpk i'm probably going to add an explicit list of domains that are allowed to claim POSSE copies
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aaronpk (micro.blog will be the only one to start)
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[tantek] an allow-list of POSSE domains is also a good filter
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jbkjb hghkk
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GWG [manton]: I am going to build a micro.blog posse feature into my WordPress plugin, so I might ask for that to be turned on as well
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GWG [manton]: Re the UI, you can disable it when it is a self hosted blog
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GWG isnt, excuse me
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[Rose] Ooh, that's an interesting idea GWG
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[manton] That would simplify it, good point GWG.
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[Rose] How will it differ to me adding a feed to micro.blog?
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[manton] [Rose] I'm not totally sure about everything GWG is planning, but I think it would be the same except the WordPress plugin would automatically tell Micro.blog when a new post was published.
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[Rose] So websub style? Nice!
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GWG Custom feed triggered by Micropub
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[Rose] I do like the sound of that a lot. Consider me a happy guinea ping
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[Rose] *typo, but an appropriate one considering the topic under discussion!
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aaronpk oof, it's gonna be harder than I thought do this micro.blog thing, apparently webmention.io doesn't currently send any rel values in the web hook
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aaronpk and that bubbles up to xray, which means I have to define a place to put it in the xray json
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aaronpk oh jeez
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[manton] I was going to say you could just see if the post wasn't a reply and assume it's a syndication of your own post, but it does seem like rel=canonical makes that more explicit. Does anyone currently send Webmentions without any reply-of, like, etc. markup?
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aaronpk yeah I can't rely on the absence of something for this
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aaronpk linking to a syndicated copy is a pretty high signal and I wouldn't want to accidentally do it
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aaronpk anyway, step 1 is done: https://xray.p3k.app/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2Faaronpk%2F6876999
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aaronpk er: https://xray.p3k.app/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmicro.blog%2Faaronpk%2F6876999&pretty=true
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mblaney GWG thanks for letting me know my webactions weren't showing up. Another flag I forgot to enable when switching sites.
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GWG mblaney: Can you update the wiki?
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mblaney I'm pretty happy with my implementation in general (when they're working...) so happy to chat more if you're working on it.
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mblaney yeah I'll do that now.
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GWG mblaney: How does it work?
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GWG y
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mblaney the bullet points under my name on that page are up to date and pretty clear, let me know if I can clarify anything though
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GWG mblaney: Was anyone else using the rel-webaction option?
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mblaney (that page = /webactions)
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mblaney try again... that page = /webactions
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GWG The webaction handler?
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mblaney no I don't believe anyone else is or was using rel-webaction
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GWG Any thoughts as I'm thinking of discussing in SF
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mblaney what is rel-webaction
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-webaction" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "rel-webaction is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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mblaney rel-webaction is an experimental rel value to link to the webaction config on your website
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Loqi ok
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GWG mblaney: So, why rel-webaction? What prompted it?
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GWG Compared the the webaction polyfill voxpelli did?
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mblaney GWG rel-webaction was prompted by the indie-config privacy problem, which is that any website can run the web+action registration handler to grab your details without your permission.
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mblaney I had implemented that registration handler previously, but removed it when I realised there was a privacy issue.
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aaronpk I thought there was a confirmation step before a website can register the handler
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GWG Why can't the URL be a property of the indie-action?
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GWG Right now, it is <indie-action do="follow" with="http://tantek.com> ? Why not url="https://example.com/intent/follow?url={url}"
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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mblaney aaronpk it's not the registration but the 3rdy party request that is the problem. once you've registered anyone can use post message
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mblaney GWG you don't have a URL for indie-action at page render
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GWG mblaney: Isn't that the parameter your rel returns?
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GWG https://unicyclic.com/php/webaction.php?username=mal&page=reader
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GWG It returns a similar property in the handler?
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GWG Why can't the instructions on where the webaction handler be embedded in the custom element?
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aaronpk oh huh
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aaronpk mblaney: did you write up the issue? that sounds worth documenting
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GWG Why does there need to be a side file?:"
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GWG Wait...this is on someone else's website
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GWG Clearly I'm confusing myself.
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GWG Never mind
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GWG I have to be up early
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mblaney GWG yes you're providing your config to another site
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mblaney happy to discuss this more when you've got time.
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GWG mblaney: I have time. I haven't eaten dinner yet.
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GWG It's only 7PM here, my flight is in 12 hours.
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GWG mblaney: I sort of side with you on one level
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GWG I prefer not using JS for this
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mblaney aaronpk I thought I did write this up but can't find much. I think it's also still up for debate if this is a privacy issue or not, though I think it is.
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mblaney GWG would be great to find a way to do webactions without js
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GWG Is there a way, I wonder