#dev 2019-12-29

2019-12-29 UTC
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jamietanna[m] !tell snarfed I noticed
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jamietanna[m] https://snarfed.org/2019-12-28_39697 is not syndicated out to Twitter as https://twitter.com/schnarfed/status/1210941068943822848 shows it from Twitter's Android app. Do you automagically backfeed from twitter to your site? If so, is that from brid.gy or something else?
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@schnarfed Fascinating: distributed systems techniques now also apply to performance sensitive applications on high end multi-core computers, eg AAA game engines on modern consoles, as well as to actual distributed systems. https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1210260682605764611 (twitter.com/_/status/1210941068943822848)
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Loqi [Ryan Barrett] Fascinating: distributed systems techniques now also apply to performance sensitive applications on high end multi-core computers, eg AAA game engines on modern consoles, as well as to actual distributed systems. Using the holidays for a 2-week codi...
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[tantek] GWG, I'd advise against removing such perceived "limitations" unless you have a specific use-case goal that you are implementing / fixing
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[tantek] rando webmentions from one page to another will result in a very poor lowest common denominator UI, AKA a meaningless UX approaching the crap that was "Pingbacks" when listed on blogs - a UX that was basically a net negative and gave Pingbacks in general a bad reputation
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GWG [tantek]: It is technically a new implementation, as the old one was in Semantic Linkbacks and the new one is in Webmentions.
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[tantek] if you can't state *WHY*, then don't do it
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[tantek] absence of WHY NOT is not a reason to do it
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[tantek] (for features, UI, code, etc.)
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GWG The comment I got was that webmentions didn't produce anything, and they didn't understand why
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GWG That was a filed issue recently
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[tantek] more specifics.
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[tantek] webmentions *from what to what* didn't produce anything, and *what did they expect*
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GWG I believe it was coming in from Mastodon.
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GWG Looking for the comment.
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GWG Regardless, I will look into putting the filter back in, but there's been no review of the PR yet.
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GWG I don't have the authority to commit to webmentions without one.
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[tantek] otherwise you will degenerate eventually to pingback-levels of noisy UI, which is worse than worthless, it makes people's posts look bad
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[tantek] GWG, without clear documentation of the from and to URLs, and what specifically is the intended user-level effect, there is no justification for doing anything with the webmention
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GWG Understood.
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GWG [tantek]: Either way, we've been talking about merging the two plugins for years, so I am going very slowly.
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GWG And while I wait, I think I'll do some micropub fixes
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[tantek] in that case, please proceed with merging the plugins without re-opening policy decisions
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[tantek] that just adds more questions, work, and risks to the merge, unnecessarily
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GWG The requirement is that each piece be fixed as it is merged in.
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GWG Figuring out how to do it piece by piece is much harder than just linking the code and then fixing the hacky bits
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[tantek] fixing is good. re-opening policy decisions while merging is bad. file any such policy re-opening questions as issues to reconsider post-merge
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[snarfed] jamietanna yes, the tweet you mentioned is definitely the posse copy of the post on my site. bridgy backfed it because it has u-syndication links. https://brid.gy/about#link
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Loqi [snarfed]: jamietanna[m] left you a message 1 hour, 41 minutes ago: I noticed
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mblaney !tell manton hey I was working on my Micropub config support and noticed you're using "destination" for your syndication list rather than "syndicate-to"? is there a spec change that I've missed?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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jamietanna[m] snarfed: Any idea why it's showing up as `Twitter for Android` instead of `Bridgy` then? See https://twitter.com/JamieTanna/status/1211058066063536128 as a comparison
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@JamieTanna My site is now running Hugo v0.62! Not too painful an upgrade from 0.58.3, given changes in the Markdown parser - https://gitlab.com/jamietanna/jvt.me/merge_requests/637 - largely Table of Contents related, and one place where I'd not got enough spacing in around fenced codeblocks (https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2019/12/wzaua/) (twitter.com/_/status/1211058066063536128)
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[snarfed] jamietanna oh i posse manually. i don't use bridgy publish myself. backfeed doesn't depend on it.
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jamietanna[m] snarfed: Oh interesting! Out of interest, why not? I've found it to be super useful 😸 since getting it set up
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[snarfed] glad to hear it! eh, i find myself usually customizing tweet text. eg that post was two tweets. easier to do it manually.
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[snarfed] i might reconsider if i posted notes more
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[jgmac1106] Brining in the photo conversation from main channel, if you are on Android (its a PWA really so it may not matter unless Safari breaks it) Photostack has been awesome
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[jgmac1106] I can resize my images, rename, watermark if needed, and then share to installed apps
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[jgmac1106] swentel, gwg be a nice indigenous feature if it could be a shared app
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[jgmac1106] also noticed in new Android photo there is a pull out target on an image to social share, wonder how Indigenous could be listed as a choice
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[jgmac1106] For my site, I have no micropoub client so after I export from Photostack, I either FTP from my phone or send to gDrive and work from phone
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[jgmac1106] Been trying FastHub, even boiught paid version, but it is a waste, only good fro reading, pushing to GitHub never works, nothing really works in the app
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[jgmac1106] If I could get FastHub or any GitHub client working from my phone I could do all the publishing from my phone...haven't figured out a way to not use an FTP client, which isn't bad, but editing in sublime on my phone not always easy with my sausage fingers
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@frankmeeuwsen Mijn volgende blogpost in de serie “Hoe kun je #WordPress gebruiken in het Indieweb”, de webmentions! Communiceer met andere sites alsof het sociale netwerken zijn! https://diggingthedigital.com/wordpress-en-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1211302007656603649)
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jamietanna[m] snarfed I was wondering that and whether it would be possible to split a longer note across tweets, but thought against it as it's then difficult because the new tweet would reply to the original one (and send a webmention to it) so wouldn't quite work
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jamietanna[m] also snarfed, I think I may soon have a WIP PR for the Granary changes for Meetup.com 🙌
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[snarfed] woo! 🎉
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[tantek] yeah, tweetstorming is kinda awkward for actual sensible commentary / threading.
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[tantek] what is split a longer note across tweets
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "split a longer note across tweets" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "split a longer note across tweets is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[snarfed] agreed... but it's definitely still a reasonable feature request for Bridgy publish!
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[tantek] split a longer note across tweets is /tweetstorm
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Loqi ok
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[tantek] snarfed, "keep Bridgy simple"?
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[snarfed] (and totally independent from webmentions)
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[snarfed] tantek lol yup. i definitely don't plan on implementing it myself
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[tantek] also it seems vulnerable to abuse or accidental overstorming
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[tantek] any one action that could "make" or "trick" bridgy into making LOTS of Twitter API calls in rapid succession seems like a bad idea
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[tantek] I'd be against it for that reason alone.
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[snarfed] eh, so we'd make it opt in
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jamietanna[m] Yeah, and I'm not sure whether I'd personally like it threaded as opposed to folks just reading the source post
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jamietanna[m] Yeah good point Tantek
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[snarfed] n API call vs 1 is fine
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[snarfed] not a problem in general. all of these are small traffic volume
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Zegnat !tell GWG saw you mentioning mf2-feed in #indieweb, do we know if anyone consumes mf2 sidefiles?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[snarfed] again, i don't plan on implementing this myself. and obviously we just plain don't like tweetstorming, which is an ok counterargument on its own
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GWG Zegnat: Semantic Linkbacks does
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aaronpk I don't think automated splitting across tweets is a good idea at all. Tweetstorming works because each tweet is crafted to be a certain length so that each one sorta stands on its own
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GWG For the reason that many WordPress sites have bad markup
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aaronpk best you could do automatically is to try to split on sentence boundaries but it's more than that that makes it look reasonable at the end
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Zegnat GWG, ooh, interesting! I was not aware of that
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GWG Zegnat: That's what prompted the creation of the plugin, but it needs some love
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Zegnat Is that `application/mf2+json` documented anywhere outside of the plugin?
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GWG Yes
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GWG http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-mime-type
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GWG https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/165
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Loqi [dshanske] #165 Support mime type for mf2
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GWG https://indieweb.org/rel-alternate
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Zegnat Was about to find the microformats wiki page. It doesn’t show until page 2 for searching the actual MIME, which is a little silly
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GWG I don't believe anyone has applied for it. Nor has anyone applied, to my knowledge, for application/json+feed which is the one they discussed adopted for jsonfeed, but I still look for it.
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GWG Oddly enough, jf2feed+json, which is the jf2 specification for feeds, is registered
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jamietanna[m] Also implemented in xray https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/pull/94
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Loqi [jamietanna] #94 Add support for parsing MF2 JSON
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aaronpk (Soon)
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jamietanna[m] 🙌🏼
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GWG So should we register it?
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GWG It's the reality of the fact with WordPress that some people want themes with no proper markup
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[tantek] GWG, registering it is premature, until you have some at least proof of concept of publishers and consuming code that makes a difference
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[tantek] prototype first with actual running code, then register
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GWG [tantek]: Consumption has been running in Semantic Linkbacks for a while now
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GWG As has publishing
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jamietanna[m] snarfed: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/pull/179 is my WIP for Granary Meetup RSVP posting, I've not tackled anything else from the GET side as I'm not sure it's required to get the Brid.gy support up-and-running?
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Loqi [jamietanna] #179 WIP: Add Meetup.com as a silo
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GWG But I am to improve it to be more useful
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GWG The WordPress feed implementation is more basic than I'd like
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[tantek] GWG, I guess I don't understand how Semantic Linkbacks is using a *feed* file, since I thought it only dealt with permalinks
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GWG Semantic Linkbacks looks for rel alternate markup and if there is mf2 json available pre parsed, it uses that instead of parsing it
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GWG So the side file overrules the HTML
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sknebel (that's application/mf2-json , not jsonfeed I assume)
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GWG In the version I'm porting to webmentions, I also am sending an Accept header for the one website I know that does content negotiation
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GWG sknebel: Yes
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GWG It doesn't support Jsonfeed for webmentions
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[tantek] interesting, so these aren't feed files, these are side files for post permalinks
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GWG Yes
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GWG The mf2-feed plugin actually does both
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GWG Side files and feed files
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GWG Since it supports jf2feed as well
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GWG Trying to make the pieces work a bit better though
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GWG Yarns also supports looking for mf2 or jf2 feed urls
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GWG pfefferle wrote the mf2-feed plugin, and the readme cites his website, but he currently doesn't have it enabled
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GWG I need to check who does
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/wordpress-mf2-feed
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Loqi [indieweb] wordpress-mf2-feed: Microformats2 Feed for WordPress URLs
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GWG And work on the description
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[tantek] This is a good workaround potentially for all the Theme issues right?
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[tantek] like sending RSVPs etc.
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[tantek] seems pretty important
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GWG [tantek]: That was the goal, yes
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GWG There were some logistics issues
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GWG I am going to try and solve them
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GWG For example, Micropub encodes microformats into the content, whereas Post Kinds stores microformats and marks up on the fly.
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GWG There was a long discussion about that, but we never moved forward on it, partially on my part due Gutenberg and its crazy markup
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GWG So, if you used Micropub by itself to make posts in WordPress, the side file will have all its mf2 inside the content element, not parsed
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GWG If you used, Post Kinds, it won't, but mf2-feed doesn't officially support where Post Kinds stores the data
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GWG Etc
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GWG So... working on fixing all that
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GWG Or at least making it less bad
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GWG [snarfed]: I may need your help
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vika_nezrimaya Micropub has ?q=contact and I hear about it for the first time! Where is it documented?!
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vika_nezrimaya !tell swentel how does ?q=contact work? what do I need to implement in my server?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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vika_nezrimaya !tell swentel ok nevermind found it
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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vika_nezrimaya !tell swentel or not
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel Lol
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KartikPrabhu vika_nezrimaya: https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_contacts
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vika_nezrimaya more interested in adding/deleting
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vika_nezrimaya trying to read the source
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vika_nezrimaya aha I see it posts an h-card, THAT'S GREAT
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vika_nezrimaya !tell swentel I love you and your new contacts UI
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi swentel has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
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GWG swentel++
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Loqi swentel has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (31 in all channels)
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vika_nezrimaya swentel++
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vika_nezrimaya indigenous_for_android++
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Loqi indigenous_for_android has 1 karma over the last year
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vika_nezrimaya indigenous++
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Loqi indigenous has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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vika_nezrimaya ok karma is given, now a question - I assume there is no proposed standards for configuring syndication endpoints, am I right?
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KartikPrabhu as in changing them?
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KartikPrabhu you can retrieve the existing syndication endpoints through a query ?q=syndicate-to
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vika_nezrimaya KartikPrabhu: yep, as in changing them
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KartikPrabhu yeah, I don't think I have seen anything about changing syndication endpoints through micropub
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vika_nezrimaya I'm an avid syndication user but I don't want to tweak the source every time I want to syndicate to a new website
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vika_nezrimaya POSSE to Twitter literally became my life, I don't remember the last time I posted directly while my website wasn't down
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GWG vika_nezrimaya: I think that is personal to your endpoint
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vika_nezrimaya oh well then I'll make a proprietary thing >.< I really didn't want to
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GWG vika_nezrimaya: I think it may be hard to avoid
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mblaney ^^ah that link mentions destination in config too....
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mblaney !tell manton all good, I found mp-destination on /Micropub-extensions
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Zegnat I just saw Simon has his Instagram stories somehow archived to his site (example: https://colly.com/journal/stockholm) … I wonder if that is an automated thing
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