#dev 2020-02-07

2020-02-07 UTC
miklb, [snarfed], maxwelljoslyn, geoffo, flex14 and [AlisonW] joined the channel
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sivy
i have an 8000+ tweet archive siting on my hard drive, daring me to import it into my site
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sivy
that's not a lot as some measure posting, but :shrug:
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sivy
let goldfrog's indexer chew on that for a minute
mblaney, nickodd, superjen96, sivy, gRegorLove, simons, Nusi, jenelizabeth, swentel, [Michael_Beckwit, [jeremycherfas], cweiske, geoffo and [LewisCowles] joined the channel; Nusi and nickodd left the channel
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[LewisCowles]
I have my tweets, my facebook, instagram and medium. I don't think I want to publish them, I'm just interested in the data they report they keep. It all seems so useless; it makes me wonder if they are deliberately under-reporting the amount of data they have
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[tantek]
what is backfill
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Loqi
backfill is the action of importing all your past posts, typically from a social media silo, into your own site https://indieweb.org/backfill
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[tantek]
sivy ^^^ might be helpful
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[tantek]
swentel, there should be a way for a Microsub client to request an anonymous default reading list from a Microsub server
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[tantek]
e.g. imagine the NYT running a Microsub server with a default "anonymous" account that was a reading list of all the NYT feeds!
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[tantek]
so you could use Indigenous, point it to NYT to discover their Microsub server, request the default anonymous reading list, and then use Indigenous to read NYT articles in a feed stream like way
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swentel
right, <rel="microsub" anonymous="true" href="" />
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swentel
or something like that
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swentel
maybe not, the microsub server could also just return the anonymous channels if there's no authentication header, or even ignore it completely?
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cweiske
previously, this was called a feed
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swentel
hehe, true :)
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cweiske
there was a time when softwares called "feed reader" let you download+read such feeds on your computer!
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[jgmac1106]
public feed, I would have to add the OPML to make it so you candpwnload: https://clmoocring.jgregorymcverry.com/edu506/
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Loqi
[swentel] #312 Onboarding of users of the app - anonymous account
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swentel
ideas welcome :)
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[jgmac1106]
indienews is an h-feed can you use that
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[jgmac1106]
do worry though it is often quite technical....and may not be the best sopurce for onboarding
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swentel
yeah, wrote that down as an idea
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[jgmac1106]
indieweb.xyz isn't an h-feed, though it could be kickscondor
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[jgmac1106]
https://stream.indieweb.org/ also not an h-feed, but again could be
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swentel
oh, it's parsed perfectly by xray.p3k.app, so that could work
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swentel
xyz fun too
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[tantek]
it's not a feed, it's a generic read-only set of channels from a microsub server, each channel may contain one or more feeds
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[tantek]
hence why I used the NYT example. NYT already has multiple feeds
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[tantek]
with the microsub server example, they could organize their multiple feeds into collections, or channels
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[tantek]
swentel, for default posting, you could also consider silo.pub as a default micropub server, and allow folks to pick a silo destination like their Tumblr
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[jgmac1106]
ahh okay, so the anonymous user could look through channels, could then different stubs from indieweb.xyz be used as channels
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swentel
[tantek], hmm, but that service is not online anymore
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swentel
(of course hehe)
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swentel
but it's a great idea!
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swentel
although I guess facebook won't really work anymore :)
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[tantek]
It would be kind of amazing if you could even just read a bunch of Tumblrs, Twitters etc. all in Indigenous, and then use Indigenous to reply to them all
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[tantek]
would likely attract / onboard a bunch of people
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[tantek]
and then the "obvious" next step of, get this all on your own website, here, setup a micro.blog etc. and syndicate to the others
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[tantek]
then get your own domain, etc.
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[tantek]
makes it much easier for folks to try IndieWeb like interactions (across sites / silos) and then understand the value in owning all their posts, responses etc. all in one place
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[tantek]
and yes, deliberately steer people away from FB
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[tantek]
just like we are extolling the virtue of account-less for onboarding / using / trying out an "app" and its UX before committing your identity to it, there is something to be said for site-less onboarding / using / trying out of any IndieWeb "app" (like Social Readers) before committing to setting up a site / service like micro.blog etc.
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swentel
I'll experiment with a hard coded channel and feed first to see the effect
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[tantek]
awesome. the swentel channel 😄
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swentel
haha oh no :)
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[tantek]
or, does Indigenous itself have a blog? about releases and updates and tips?
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[tantek]
that could be a useful default
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swentel
that would make sense indeed, but no blog on that no
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swentel
it's just for the push notifications setup mainly
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[jgmac1106]
could just make a twiiter list of indiewebbers and turn that into a feed
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[tantek]
you could also curate a set of feeds as "IndieWeb community" picking from current active folks here who post a variety of content on their own sites, definitely photo posts as that seems like a strong attractor
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swentel
makes sense
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swentel
I'll do that :)
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[tantek]
I'd specifically disinclude feeds that were mostly twitter replies or shitposts TBH
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[jgmac1106]
yeah that is the hard part, doing it without replies
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[jgmac1106]
unless 100% hand curating
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[tantek]
focus on feeds that are primarily original content
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[jgmac1106]
and add the feed freom events.indieweb.org as one channe;
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swentel
I can create a twitter list and then use granary, and exclude post types, that's easy
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swentel
it's a good show case for the drupal microsub server at the same time ;)
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[tantek]
you can make judgment calls like that
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[tantek]
perhaps even ask folks if they would mind if you included them in the default set
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swentel
I'll make a few channels, e.g. IndieWeb, Memes, Twitter, Instagram, International News
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[tantek]
agreed on adding events as a channel
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[jgmac1106]
what is the microsub equivalent of OPML...copy a channel?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "microsub equivalent of OPML...copy a channel" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "microsub equivalent of OPML...copy a channel is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgmac1106]
...if you need help curating happy to share the burden, seems like a ton of work
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[tantek]
I think it would help to ask people explicitly if they want to be included, because of the different /publics challenges
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[tantek]
some folks are likely already posting for a wide array of /publics
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[jgmac1106]
+1 to opt-in always
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[tantek]
while others are likely posting for a more subtle / obscure set or single /publics
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[tantek]
even though you *can* include any public feed, I feel it's the polite / community-positive thing to do to ask
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[jgmac1106]
can you create syndication targets for people to to send posts to those public feeds?
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[jgmac1106]
that way always opt-in and less hand curation on your part?
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swentel
well, for the indieweb channel, I'd use stream.indieweb.org for instance, that seems public anyway?
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swentel
then some news feeds, which are fine
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swentel
and instagram/twitter some verified high profile people
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swentel
that should be good enough (imo)
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[jgmac1106]
people probably already have good twitter lists you can use, that is plenty.
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[jgmac1106]
I would grab some of the artsy and more diverse folk from tumblr as well
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swentel
I need a meme list :)
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[jgmac1106]
I will make a meme list, can you use grnaray to filter a list and only include if there is an image?
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swentel
I can filter on the microsub server too
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swentel
store everything, filter on output
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swentel
https://twitter.com/memecenter is a good one, always works
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[jgmac1106]
I was just talking about how I wanted that feature since you can not use twitter search api
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[jgmac1106]
have a list of people but filter out everything but a specific hashtag
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swentel
ok, so maybe that memecenter isn't /that/ funny
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swentel
ok, I have enough input to start coding :)
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swentel
but first trying to get the photo editor working nicely
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[jgmac1106]
started a meme list....now wondering if it is a good idea: https://twitter.com/i/lists/1225725227994316800?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
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[jgmac1106]
swentel can indigenous work with mblaney's unicyclic as a microsub server. I want to use it it again but I will never be able to figure out my token problem with Known, it just stopped workign one day and won't work again no matter how many times I deltete tokens and reinstall plugin
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GWG
We never solved that multiple Microsub endpoint problem did we?
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swentel
jgmac1106Discord, yes, it works with that too, I use it to test it in indigenous
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Zegnat
GWG, I don’t think so, no.
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Zegnat
Also very few actual implementations that link to multiple microsub endpoints. Bit chicken egg maybe.
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jeremycherfas
Syncthing installed on both machines with no great fuss, but actual syncing has been stuck at 0% for a long time with no indication of why nothing is happening. I'll try to be patient and let it go through an entire scan interval without touching anything.
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jeremycherfas
Did you try switching it off and then on again?
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jeremycherfas
Blimey, it worked
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[snarfed]
^ describes much of my career
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jeremycherfas
I find that hard to believe
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[jgmac1106]
[manton] just wondering if micro.blog is the first service doing webmentions driven by JSON and not microformats. Plurality and all.... I do try to keep the metadata proper in themes, but many people delete "unused classes" it seems as they customize themes
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[jgmac1106]
I will do another run through soon, still think a HUGO landing page like HTML5UP that can work on micro.blog or any HUGO blog would be neat
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[manton]
Oh, sorry for the confusion… For Webmention, Micro.blog does use Microformats.
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[manton]
And I agree, Micro.blog actually makes a really nice Hugo site even if it's not a blog. My site book.micro.blog is hosted on Micro.blog and has no blog posts.
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[jgmac1106]
okay I just got confused with the photo and POSSE tweet conversation from your code channel, that was example of zero microformats but the issue was unrelated
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[schmarty]
Heh. Not sure if you're getting autocompleted jgmac1106 but Hugo is a proper noun rather than an acronym
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[jgmac1106]
thx for heads up, not that into SSGs for that Hugo elsewhere
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maxwelljoslyn
trying and failing to get page redirects to work on S3 :(
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Loqi
2020-02-07: Dammit, I don’t know what I’m doing. Can anyone help? Redirecting from the no-longer-existent poems file to the new poems/ in the “Static Website Hosting - Redirection Rules” section of the S3 Console is not working at all: I get ...
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[jgmac1106]
well wasn't too bad three minute install using mapkyca's help: http://iddrisu.goifnetwork.org/begin/
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[jgmac1106]
here is my tutorial...after all my hemming and hawing I may stick with Known over WP...let see if I can get it running on name.com......setting up and connecting database scare me
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[jgmac1106]
hmmm didn't unfurl....what markup did I mess up now
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aaronpk
you've got that u-url-u-uid thing again
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[jgmac1106]
darn must have missed some
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[jgmac1106]
aaronpk is it okay if I have a p-author with a full h-card and h-card with a u-uid to my homepage in the footer
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aaronpk
sure but i don't think anything is going to care
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[jgmac1106]
I like displaying author h-card on articles but not notes, but didn't want to have to deal with two different footers
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aaronpk
wait what
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[jgmac1106]
yeah it is more for not displaying my author info on notes and using <href="/"> so I have a link to an h-card on in my footer that points to my homepage. I put a u-uid there.
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aaronpk
yes that's fine, consumers will see the "/" link and go fetch your home page to find the author h-card there
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[jgmac1106]
well back to doing Known Installs
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aaronpk
currently creating events on my website for dates after DST and I keep getting the timezone offset wrong. I need to fix Quill's interface for this
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aaronpk
Quill is aware of the timezone that various airports are in, but it's not taking into account DST lol
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Loqi
DST has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-2 in all channels)
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[tantek]
DSTchange--
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Loqi
DSTchange has -1 karma over the last year
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aaronpk
i'm still holding out for the US dropping it completely
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GWG
aaronpk: Amen
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sivy
Well, got my entire tweet archive - up to Jan 20 - imported into my site
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sivy
as notes
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aaronpk
niiiice
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aaronpk
sivy++
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Loqi
sivy has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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sivy
http://monkinetic.blog/archive -- blue is posts, pink is notes
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Loqi
Steve Ivy
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sivy
right now "notes" are just "posts without a title" so there's a few false posisitves
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sivy
but I think i'm going to have to make some actual. distinction
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[snarfed]
and maybe links to the tweets themselves
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[chrisaldrich]
!tell [fluffy] Saw your /citation conversation from yesterday, if it helps I know [jeremycherfas] and I have been thinking about that idea if you want to brainstorm something. via https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2020-02-06#t1581016691904200 see also: https://boffosocko.com/2020/01/29/the-discovery-metadata-field-matt-maldre/
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi
[[fluffy]] Is there a microformat that people are using for this? like u-via or something. The /credit page just shows like… how people are doing it in post bodies as old bloggy convention.
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[fluffy]
hi 🙂
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[fluffy]
I actually literally just pushed a change to my site where I’ve added auto-generated (and probably incorrect) h-cite for my “via”s
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[fluffy]
as opposed to doing it as a definitely-not-supported u-via webmention.
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[fluffy]
and that’ll work for bookmark type posts too, not just ones with a post body
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[fluffy]
well, sorta. I haven’t added it for pure note posts on the index yet.
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[fluffy]
but that’s easy enough to do
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[chrisaldrich]
The prior art that the now-defunct Curator's code did was fascinating. I need to find an easier way of collecting the data other than manually so that posting it to my site is easier and more frequent.
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[chrisaldrich]
I've been debating doing either some of that or iterating on some of my 2015 WordPress theme work this weekend for the Online IndieWebCamp.
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GWG
Oh?
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[chrisaldrich]
Perhaps if we could find a timeslot it might make an interesting impromptu session?
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[chrisaldrich]
should have known better mentioning WordPress in a publicly logged channel with GWG. 🙂
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sivy
[snarfed] yeah, I do have syndication links in the works see it in action on the home page: http://monkinetic.blog/
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Loqi
Steve Ivy
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[chrisaldrich]
GWG is also heavily interested in citations too.
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[fluffy]
okay here we go. http://beesbuzz.biz/blog/chatter/ — the two most recent posts now have a (again, probably-malformed) h-cite.
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[fluffy]
but yeah this might be a good session for IWCOnline this weekend. I’m not sure how awake I’ll be though, it’s pretty darn early on a Saturday for me 🙂
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[snarfed]
sivy oh i meant on your imported tweets
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[fluffy]
I do still feel like there should be a different kind of webmention for “this was cited” rather than it just being a mention-of.
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[fluffy]
but that might be nitpicking at this point.
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[chrisaldrich]
I've been debating that same point too.
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aaronpk
sounds like ithat's worth experimenting with!
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[chrisaldrich]
We could do a different timeframe sometime this weekend...
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aaronpk
but just cause you publish something doesn't mean others will understand it :) and so they will still show it as just a "mention"
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[jgmac1106]
what would be the difference between that an hi-cite?
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[jgmac1106]
ohh scrolled up, already discussed
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[chrisaldrich]
I've been thinking of using it from an academic/research perspective in particular.
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[fluffy]
yeah the academic usage is very different than the “hat tip” usage
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[jgmac1106]
I do h-cite for that....but chrisaldrich mapoping mf2 to academic citations is a very scary dark place
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@JoeBuhlig
I’m looking to add microblog and webmention support to a Wordpress site. Any plugin recommendations for doing so? I’d rather not build it as it looks like I need a Custom Post Type.
(twitter.com/_/status/1225901373696462849)
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[fluffy]
and like what even sent me on this path is I wanted a means of basically reposting someone else’s link to a thing without linking just to the someone else’s link which might succumb to link rot
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[chrisaldrich]
Curator's code had an interesting way of distinguishing between the ideas of hat tip and via. Though I'm not sure that the distinction is broadly distributed.
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[fluffy]
but still give the person credit and a nod
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[chrisaldrich]
I often use them as a means of reminding myself where I found a particular piece of information, which can often be useful in backtracking my own footsteps. The forward looking piece to give credit is also valuable in it's own right.
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[jgmac1106]
fluffy I go bak to in terms of your display a mention within a like or bookmark could be displayed as a h/t without metadata
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[chrisaldrich]
I also think about these things for our future selves when some enterprising person decides to pick up our work and create an indieweb discovery engine.
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[chrisaldrich]
I've got to run to pick up a monkey from school, but let's all keep thinking and iterating on this. If there's a convenient time during camp, post it on one of the planning pages and we'll circle back on it.
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@JoeBuhlig
I’m looking to add microblog and webmention support to a Wordpress site. Any plugin recommendations for doing so? I’d rather not build it as it looks like I need a Custom Post Type.
(twitter.com/_/status/1225902687453089793)
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[jgmac1106]
yeah we can add a session on h/t all it takes is two people...I wish we stuck with the 24 hour session window...rather than looking for magical UTC block...and just letting facilitators choose what works best for them
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[jgmac1106]
oops guess that is meta
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[jgmac1106]
okay, I updated to latest Known version, deleted the IndiePub plugin, and still can't log into any microsub client...strangely the micropub side works, can anyone point me to anywhere I should begin to read up to try and sort this out?
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[jgmac1106]
deleted and reinstalled I should say
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sknebel
aaronpk: getting emails from github that I'm using an app - Indieauth.com - with outdated API authentication: https://developer.github.com/changes/2019-11-05-deprecated-passwords-and-authorizations-api/#authenticating-using-query-parameters
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aaronpk
oh yeah i've been getting those
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aaronpk
wow it's sending them to you too?
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aaronpk
i assumed it would send them only to the owner of the OAuth app
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aaronpk
aaand this is why i dislike using libraries for OAuth... indieauth.com uses the omniauth library, so i'm going to have to update that library, but i suspect the version it uses is so old that the updated library will have breaking changes so this is going to cause a cascade of updates
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aaronpk
like by all means use a library for the signature calculation of oauth 1 or JWT validation in openid connect, but the mechanics of the oauth exchange are a GET request and a POST request and trying to encapsulate that in a common way across all oauth providers is just too much of a pain
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