#dev 2020-03-31

2020-03-31 UTC
[_iamdave] and [tantek] joined the channel
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[tantek]
this is kind of a indieweb problem description but it gets devy real quick so starting here
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jacky
yeah so re: POSSE site edits
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[tantek]
I have different profile details on my silo accounts, different from each other and from my primary site
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[tantek]
and I edit those, directly using the silo UIs
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[tantek]
another example, jacky's "visible name" on his twitter, changes pretty often, and is kinda like a status message 🙂
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jacky
it's def a status message lol
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[tantek]
I'm considering "owning my silo profile customizations" with a copy (or primary?) version on my own site
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jacky
usually a derivative of something I heard
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dansup
thats a problem I find in pixelfed with federated display names, mastodon re-fetches during search queries
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jacky
yeah like a changelog of sorts
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[tantek]
jacky, I love that irony since twitter started literally as a way of posting status updates
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dansup
hi btw, hope everyone is well :)
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jacky
dansup: hey!
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[tantek]
dansup, so this is kinda the point, real world user behavior (at least two of us) where we don't actually *want* to federate/replicate our display names
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jacky
but also wait, like _every_ single time? that's something worth caching (but I can understand - how does one know when to 'expire' contact info?)
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[tantek]
we want custom display names, or bios etc. on different silos
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[tantek]
jacky, you don't expire it, you expect anyone who cares to subscribe to it via WebSub
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[tantek]
then when you update your contact info, you ping your hub, it pings anyone who cares
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jacky
strokes his chin excitedly
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jacky
that is a good use-case for websub tbh
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dansup
[tantek]: what if your avatar, display name, bio, website or other information changes? shouldn't there be a mechanism to update that across subscribers
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jacky
yeah that's how websub would work
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[tantek]
yeah, WebSub 🙂
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jacky
if your 'contact' list can listen for changes then it can update on its own
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jacky
like a feed reader
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[tantek]
same thing that updates subscribers when you publish a new post
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dansup
perfect, one of my goals this summer is to incorporate more indieweb features into pixelfed
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[tantek]
darn it I just did a Twitter search for periodically fetch and I'm sad
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jacky
lol is it about trying to make fetch happen?
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jacky
dansup: yeah websub + webmention probably the easiest things to get into from the server side tbh
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[tantek]
haha found it
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jacky
microformats2 is just more markup (but comes with perks)
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@t
#WebSub is now a @W3C Recommendation! https://www.w3.org/TR/2018/REC-websub-20180123/ Supported by @Google @WordPress etc. #implementnow Congrats @Julien51 @aaronpk! So stop polling so much, start SUBscribing to WEB pages for changes! #openweb #indieweb #webstandards… http://tantek.com/2018/024/t4/websub-recommendation https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUWnl3wVoAA9-eF.jpg
(twitter.com/_/status/956354767596539904)
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[tantek]
sadly that was before twitter had alt text on images (and I on my site) so the text in that image is not indexed by Twitter's search
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[tantek]
oooh I haven't tested that theory
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[tantek]
anyone know if Twitter search indexes alt text?
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jacky
I wouldn't think so but one can ask!
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[tantek]
darn it doesn't appear to
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[tantek]
what is search
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Loqi
search in the context of the IndieWeb refers to being able to search your personal site for your own content https://indieweb.org/search
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[tantek]
search << Brainstorming: text search of [[photo]] posts, or any posts with images in them, should include the alt text of all such images.
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Loqi
ok, I added "Brainstorming: text search of [[photo]] posts, or any posts with images in them, should include the alt text of all such images." to the "See Also" section of /search https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69316&oldid=69264
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[tantek]
ok back to silo profile updates
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jacky
yeahh
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[tantek]
IDK if I'd care enough to put them in my main feed, yet I kinda want a stream somewhere
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jacky
so thankfully with micropub, we already know what exactly on each silo needs to change (so we can drop it if it's not supported)
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jacky
tbh tho, I'd probably use a different micropub endpoint for this
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jacky
(like one specialized in this versus adding it to my site)
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jacky
so I don't have to have github and twitter code in my site
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[tantek]
it does seem related to POSSE destinations though tbh
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[tantek]
and maybe that's related to rel=me links
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jacky
yeah for sure
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jacky
not 100% sure how I'd mark up a change to my h-card tho
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jacky
could be a bullet-list of what I changed to / from
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jacky
or something like that
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[tantek]
and /edit post?
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jacky
what is edit
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Loqi
An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indieweb.org/edit
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jacky
yeah that would work!
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jacky
I would be curious on how to make this work internally
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jacky
(like applying diffs and if there's a conflict that the machine can't resolve)
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jacky
kyle's link is down (sadly)
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jacky
need to capture more markup like that on the Wiki
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jacky
oh never mind there's some below
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[tantek]
I'm thinking of prototyping it with a "simple" way of archiving it just as text posts with "profile URL propery:value" like inline in the text
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jacky
that works
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[tantek]
I've been copy/pasting the "from" and "to" in my offline text file for bio edits for a while
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[tantek]
in case I was curious what it used to be but wasn't sure
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jacky
there's a service (for twitter) that does this
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jacky
I think it's spoonbill
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jacky
!tell swentel could that be something to use versus something like pushy
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
loicm, simons, das1, swentel, IWSlackGateway, sscarfe, [LewisCowles], petermolnar, KartikPrabhu, hs0ucy, hs0ucy_ and [g33kcentric] joined the channel
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[g33kcentric]
What do people do in the instance where they are creating a note or article for example, but have several images to include and who also have a separate / for photos
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jacky
what is collection
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Loqi
A collection is a type of post that explicitly lists and/or embeds multiple other posts chosen by the author https://indieweb.org/collection
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jacky
kinda a "do it as you 'normally' would" situation tbh
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[g33kcentric]
Hmmm, ok I'll take a look ta!
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[g33kcentric]
I'm thinking for me personally, leave notes at just one image and use articles when I want to have more than one image, then split each of those images into separate posts
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swentel
woohoow, Indigenous did its first post :)
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Loqi
swentel: jacky left you a message 5 hours, 50 minutes ago: could that be something to use versus something like pushy
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swentel
and the reader works basically as well too
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swentel
jacky, hmm, not sure what you mean with that tell?
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@ythaie
JL Audio ACP208LG-W3v3 500W MicroSub+ Amplified Subwoofer Ported-Enclosure System with Dual 8" 8W3v3 Subwoofer https://amzn.to/2xFzk2g
(twitter.com/_/status/1244974426967306240)
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@_am1t
↩️ I believe Bridgy can send webmentions to original posts too as long as the twitter profile links to the website and u-syndication links are present. That's how I receive webmentions from Twitter to posts on my website. https://brid.gy/about#link
(twitter.com/_/status/1244989795442384897)
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@_am1t
↩️ I believe Bridgy can send webmentions to original posts too as long as the twitter profile links to the website and u-syndication links are present. That's how I receive webmentions from Twitter to posts on my website. https://brid.gy/about#link
(twitter.com/_/status/1244989795442384897)
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[tantek]
[g33kcentric] that works! One question to ask yourself that may help is, what's the focus or primary content of a post? If you can figure that out, it tends to answer the other questions.
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[tantek]
And note that's just for your own site. How and where you POSSE any such posts to is a separate question. E.g. you can have note/article posts with photos that you decide to POSSE to Twitter or even Instagram
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[g33kcentric]
its one of the things you have to get your head around getting into indieweb, apart from things like microformats and technical bits, how your website works is...up to you!
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[tantek]
Indeed! "how your website works — for you, your readers" is more important than the technical bits!
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[tantek]
You may also be interested in
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[tantek]
what is a multiphoto
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Loqi
A multi-photo is like a photo post, except just with multiple adjacent photos, either in a series, or tiled / arranged in some layout https://indieweb.org/multiphoto
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[g33kcentric]
arr brill ta! Yeah im already planning on customising POSSE depending on post type and character length etc 🙂
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[tantek]
that reminds me I should add another recent "interesting" example
sscarfe joined the channel
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[tantek]
[g33kcentric] here's the recent novel multiple-images example: I posted a "photo" post of just one photo yet also included additional illustrative images as part of the caption/description. The one photo is the primary content, yet there are multiple images in the post: https://tantek.com/2020/073/t3/racekit-muc50
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Loqi
[Tantek Çelik] #Racekit prepared for #MUC50 race. Yesterday CA governor Newsom banned 250+ people gatherings which forced cancellation of the Marin Ultra Challenge. With training and support of friends, I’m running the 50 mile course anyway. The cancellation emai... https://fastly.4sqi.net/img/general/width960/476_m85l0wYOJGR49HxfIPOzxET72clo6cD0fsKiz-_ubmA.jpg
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[tantek]
That's not to say that's a common case, more an example of allowing for different possibilities depending on the content you're posting, rather than following any strict typing rules
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[g33kcentric]
arrr wicked thanks for that
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crab
let's hope 249 people don't take you up on your invitation ;-)
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[tantek]
fortunately it's done. 🙂 also it was dark and raining in the morning which discouraged some people. though there about 30-50 people out there anyway!
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[tantek]
(more in indieweb-chat if you like 🙂 )
[jgmac1106], gRegorLove, KartikPrabhu, hs0ucy, [grantcodes], x450_, [LewisCowles], [KevinMarks] and [_iamdave] joined the channel
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@steveivy
Fixed a couple of little bugs in #goldfrog - made it so that the webmention code doesn’t barf on servers with non-verifiable SSL certs, and updated the permashortid code so that Twitter doesn’t always link to the site for Notes (http://monkinetic.blog txt-616cc03)
(twitter.com/_/status/1245047062334324741)
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[LewisCowles]
[jgmac1106] I have an action, quite buried right now to look into known for some more S3 related Heroku changes. As-is heroku limits file uploads to 1MB, so I'd like to have some direct to S3 uploads by adding an endpoint, which checks someone is logged in.
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[LewisCowles]
generates a pre-signed upload URL, which is time limited. It's not that much work. The hard part is setting aside time to find out how known is handling, routing, auth and hooking into uploads both FE and BE to avoid the heroku issues uploading.
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[jgmac1106]
we think we will just follow the old set up...not gonna even try for schools now, just test with all my family blogs goign to do Beanstalk so we can use EB with a S3 backend and I can provision a bucket for each different district/account
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[jgmac1106]
the coursebuilder plugin [mapkyca] working on is super cool
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[jgmac1106]
may pilot it with goif network sessions
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[LewisCowles]
You'll still need to support large files for upload right?
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[LewisCowles]
I wonder if you are setting limits
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[jgmac1106]
yeah what we were just discussing as needing a fix in the the s3 plugin
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[jgmac1106]
this weekend or next Marcus and I will set up the stuff on AWS, you are more than welcome to play along
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[jgmac1106]
the course builder plugin: https://github.com/mapkyca/review-courseware the OAuth plugin working much better as well...I am working on the handshakes on my end
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sknebel
heads up to everyone using Dark Sky for weather data: Apple bought them, no new API signups, API promised to remain up until end of 2021
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[LewisCowles]
I think it's a private repo
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aaronpk
what is Dark Sky?
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "Dark Sky" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Dark Sky is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk
Dark Sky is a [[weather]] API which some people use to show weather information on [[posts]]
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sknebel
so hold onto your API keys if you rely on it right now
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[jgmac1106]
ohh yeah, will tell [mapkyca] he can move it to a Known repo if he wants, all the code will have the same license and go right back to community
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sknebel
apparently the best way to "to help as many people as we can stay dry and safe" is kicking of external and Android users... https://blog.darksky.net/dark-sky-has-a-new-home/
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[LewisCowles]
no need to do so on my account
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Loqi
ok, I added "https://blog.darksky.net/dark-sky-has-a-new-home/" to a brand new "See Also" section of /Dark_Sky https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69326&oldid=69325
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[LewisCowles]
I was more letting you know in-case you were linking to others who were confused by GitHub's 404 for private things
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[LewisCowles]
I'm going to look at the 2FA plugin. I likely won't be looking for over a month
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[jgmac1106]
I just forgot, want to take all of ReVIEW open source over next few months, just took over as primary stakeholder and have a few licensing issues first...and some ugly code I don't want people even attempting to use
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[schmarty]
glitch.com just launched "boosted" pricing. $10/mo ($8/mo if billed annually), quadruple the ram, double the disk space, apps that stay awake, and no rate limits.
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[schmarty]
hopes this means they're finding a sustainable funding model 😅
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[jgmac1106]
I do like they only took one investment, less people at the cap table makes for better decisions...still a lot of money to 10x
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sknebel
don't they also have some paid "groups" feature, or did I imagine that?
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sknebel
(can't find it right now, so probably the latter :D)
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sknebel
ah, teams function is still in beta, thus not paid yet: https://glitch.com/teams/
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[jgmac1106]
I think that was kind of abandoned for now as a revenue model, not sure, haven't heard much talk or seen team features being developed
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[_iamdave]
Someone have an example of how they’ve implemented dark sky on their sites? The gerbils are running
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[jacky]
what is dark sky
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Loqi
Dark Sky is a weather API (no new signups possible) which some people use to show weather information on posts https://indieweb.org/Dark_Sky
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[jacky]
^ that was fast lol
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[_iamdave]
Aha.
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[jacky]
I thought someone might have already added examples
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[_iamdave]
jacky++
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Loqi
jacky has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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[_iamdave]
Hrm.
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[jacky]
ah cleverdevil has
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[_iamdave]
Ahhh. So there may be a solution here.
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[_iamdave]
Or an alternative. http://avwx.rest
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[_iamdave]
I’ve been watching this quite closely and have wanted to build on it for quite a while but never could find a practical enough application
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[_iamdave]
Oh that already looks like a much simpler feed.
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[_iamdave]
jmac1106++ thanks for this.
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Loqi
jmac1106 has 1 karma over the last year
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[_iamdave]
Oops nope.
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[_iamdave]
I’ll owe ya one heh ;) thanks.
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[jgmac1106]
hee hee, on the flip side then
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aaronpk
well THIS is interesting
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aaronpk
google event search is showing my web page for indieweb summit
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aaronpk
but it does not have schema.org or mf1, only mf2
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aaronpk
actually neither of the links have schema markup
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[jacky]
😬 is it human labor?!
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[jacky]
or ML?
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sknebel
that they don't need schema we had seen with other events already, right?
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[LewisCowles]
> an investigation by ACM Queue put the figure [of sites using schema.org] at 31.3%, while a study by Bing and Catalyst found that just 17% of marketers *use Schema*.*org markup*
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[LewisCowles]
Makes sense El-goog would like to support more than just under 1/3 of sites
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[jgmac1106]
proper HTML and headings can go a long way with search engines
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aaronpk
i'm just surprised they're pulling out the date information too
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[LewisCowles]
I'm surprised if it's https://2020.indieweb.org/summit too. It's a heading. I don't think I've ever seen a date as a heading.
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Loqi
IndieWeb Summit
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[LewisCowles]
I thought there might have been a <time> element
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[LewisCowles]
oh there are, just further down
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swentel
aaronpk, https://www.jvt.me/posts/2020/03/02/google-microformats-support/ seems to confirm that google still supports it
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Loqi
[Jamie Tanna] Google confirms Microformats are still a recommended metadata format for content
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swentel
but they don't really advocate it on dev pages afaics
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aaronpk
they haven't made any indication that they parse mf2 at all
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aaronpk
mf1 they clearly support, but there is no mf1 on those pages
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swentel
maybe there's some sneaky engineer at google that put it in :)
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sknebel
[LewisCowles]: what's the quote above from?
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sknebel
right, was looking for whatever an "investigation by ACM Queue" was supposed to be
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sknebel
they linked it nicely enough
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[jgmac1106]
okay doku wiki has a really good upload and display video workflow: https://www.childrensliteraturewiki.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=doku_wiki_tutorials
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[jgmac1106]
never tried wiki markup for embedded media
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sufja
Hello
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sufja
I'm experiencing a very strange issue (to me), unsure what causes it, anyone able to see if they know?
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sufja
Basically, a user's second request to the same URL on my website gets cached and I've got no idea where the caching occurs and how to disable it
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sufja
If I launch incognito mode, request the website, on the website I use PHP to store an entry in my DB then redirect the page to another website
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sufja
First request- it works. Entry's saved in the DB and the browser's then redirected to the other website
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sufja
Second request, no entry in the DB and the page's redirected to the other website
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sufja
I assume either the browser's caching the response from the request and just serves that to the user (thus no entry in the DB), or the server does this, unsure what does this and how to disable it
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sufja
What could cause it?
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[KevinMarks]
I think Google changed their text parsers to machine learning so it may have taught itself mf2
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sufja
Well, no, because this'll keep reoccurring every time I relaunch incognito mode
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sufja
First request works as expected, second request's cached
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[LewisCowles]
jgmac1106++
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Loqi
jgmac1106 has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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[LewisCowles]
KevinMarks that would be amazing
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[LewisCowles]
I Hope it doesn't teach itself raw markup though
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[LewisCowles]
like opening times in <p> tags (common WordPress bug-bear)
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sufja
6list
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GWG
Just caught the Dark Sky news in the scrollup. First Weather Underground, now this
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swentel
woohoo, upload files from indigenous desktop works :)
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Loqi
😃
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swentel
I can post a note now ;)
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[KevinMarks]
@sufja what kind of redirect are you doing? 302 or 301
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swentel
or photo etc
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[KevinMarks]
301 is saying that the redirect is permanent and should be cached
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sufja
hey [KevinMarks], 302
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sufja
It seems to be a disk-cache related thing on Chrome, at least
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sufja
It's browser-related I bet. Probably works similar on all browsers
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sufja
Cache controls, thank you anyway =)
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[LewisCowles]
sufja, can you check the headers for E-tag, and does CTRL/CMD + R force refresh have any impact?
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sufja
Fixed :) Cache controls were the issue
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sufja
Thank you
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sknebel
sufja: just to be safe: are you doing things that cause changes on the site (database entries) using GET requests?
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sknebel
ah, they quit already
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GWG
To my off-topic question from earlier which is on topic...
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GWG
If I get free weather data from the National Weather Service, how do I have it fall back on paid weather data when I'm not in the United States?
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GWG
I'm trying to figure the logic.
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sknebel
does the API tell you "we don't have data here"?
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sknebel
or do you want to use something else because it might have better data?
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[LewisCowles]
can you use something like NGINX + geoIP database to "guess" and pass-down state in headers, or pass an explicit location string when asking about weather?
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GWG
sknebel: It would say, we don't have data here.
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sknebel
then I'd live with doing that "unnecessary" request and fallback to the other source if I get that answer
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GWG
I do actually look up location beforehand.
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GWG
So I would have the country, I guess.
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GWG
I just never did fallover before
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[LewisCowles]
do while loop?
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[LewisCowles]
simplest failover
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GWG
Yes, but I didn't build that the first time.
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GWG
I may have to look at my design
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[LewisCowles]
what did you build? maybe that can help
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GWG
Essentially, when it is asked to look something up, it looks up what the default provider is and uses it
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GWG
I have to think about how I can have a primary and a secondary provider
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[LewisCowles]
I'm not sure you do
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[LewisCowles]
make a concrete provider that encapsulates the two providers
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[LewisCowles]
then your default can be the new concrete with deliberate fallback
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GWG
I already support 5 weather providers
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GWG
6 Reverse Geocoding Providers
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GWG
7 Map Providers
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[LewisCowles]
right but 5 does nothing but calcify what the cascade should be
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GWG
This is not the first time I lost a provider
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GWG
Yes, so I need to design the cascade logic.
gRegorLove_, gRegorLove, loicm, gxt, [_iamdave], [tantek] and hs0ucy joined the channel