#dev 2020-04-06
2020-04-06 UTC
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[KevinMarks] i got it working https://lightsky.uk/
# [KevinMarks] now I get to work on the visual display properly
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crab so it's not entirely trivial to get schema.org RDFa markup to coexist with h-entry/h-card markup.
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swentel also, releases at https://github.com/swentel/indigenous-desktop/releases :)
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[tantek] swentel, for rich snippets in search results, all you need is a top level hentry / hcard, classic mf1 which works great in-place with mf2: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#When_should_I_use_microformats2_or_microformats1 (no need for RDFa for that)
# crab [tantek] for me, mostly just curiosity
# crab i remember a time when RDF was still the great hope for semantic markup :-)
# crab having added h-entry/h-card/hCard markup to my site already, i just wondered if it would be easy to also markup as BlogPosting/Person with RDFa, which google claims to pay some attention to
# crab and it's not too difficult, though there are some oddities if you want to use rel=author. but google's structured data testing tool says the article MUST have an image, which most of mine don't, so i probably won't bother.
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# [LewisCowles] well done KevinMarks
# [LewisCowles] Cheuk, can you describe the break in more detail?
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# [LewisCowles] is it the standard or Google with that requirement?
# [LewisCowles] I feel like it's the latter.
# [LewisCowles] sad but familiar
# crab [LewisCowles] it's a google requirement (image and publisher)
# crab oh, sorry, tantek already said so.
# crab and the annoying thing about making hCard/h-card/Person markup coexist is that google's structured data testing tool doesn't like "rel=me".
# crab so, blah.
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# [KevinMarks] pours one out for the social graph api
# [LewisCowles] Google--
# [LewisCowles] just found out lit-html doesn't live up to the cool "that
{x} was lit"# 
@typlog Added webmention u-in-reply-of support. https://t.co/kQNZ9LuQNq (twitter.com/_/status/1247086765065654272)
# Ryuno-Ki Regarding RDFa, I could be wrong, but wasn't SoLiD (by Sir Tim Berners-Lee) using it in some way as well?
# Ryuno-Ki The Yandex Webmaster tool were more helpful for analysing mf2 / JSON-LD and that like. But they require login now :-(
# Ryuno-Ki Fun think is that even the schema.org examples don't validate …
# Ryuno-Ki At least solid is suggesting use of rdflib: https://solid.inrupt.com/docs/manipulating-ld-with-rdflib
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[jgmac1106] SOLiD does use RDFa, but I don't know any SOLID users yet
# [jgmac1106] I think there are a few community members exploring it, youcan check the wiki page
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# [jgmac1106] almost all the major news organizations and academic journals doing some version of JSON-LD and schema.org vocabularies..for this hot minute
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# crab schema.org vocabularies seem pretty all right
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# crab but JSON-LD is annoying. i can imagine why google likes it, but i much prefer the microformats approach
# Ryuno-Ki Same here, crab
# crab anyway, i ended up adding schema.org/BlogPosting markup in RDFa format to my site, because it was a five-line diff in the end. but i ignored all the extra stuff (image, publisher) that google's validator asks for.
# crab any more microformats and it'll become a miniformat.
# Ryuno-Ki I think, the requirements comes from a marketing perspective (posts with images tend to attract more eyes).
# crab i think they ask for the image because they want to feature it in this "carousel" of results as an image with text underneath
# Ryuno-Ki Could be. But afaik Facebook/Twitter/Slack etc. are using it for the thumbnail preview (if you haven't add their markup already)
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[grantcodes] [jgmac1106] if you want to be super experimental with your scaling font size you could try `clamp()` in css which lets you set a min and max value
# [jgmac1106] thx Grant, I started to read about min/max and vm fontsizes, ended up doing wiki stuff instead. I do need to do something for my small screen font sizes
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petermolnar schema.org vocab is nowhere near all right
# petermolnar try making a resume in it
# petermolnar or recurring events
# jgmac1106_ not about being right, about academics making a career proposing vocabularies that probably won’t be used much,
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# [LewisCowles] ↩️ hmm, sadly not a lot of insight in that message is there. Have you emailed them?
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# jgmac1106_ does anyone see my markup mistake? Telegraph is telling me no h-entry is present on this post: https://jgregorymcverry.com/lofilearningmozillagrant
# Ryuno-Ki jgmac1106_: https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjgregorymcverry.com%2Flofilearningmozillagrant confirms there is one.
# Ryuno-Ki However, OpenLink Structured Data Sniffer can't show me details either
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# jgmac1106_ duh…I probably never updated my article template….one typo haunts me over and over
# jgmac1106_ thanks
# jgmac1106_ I thought maybe it was the extra h-card I had…
# jgmac1106_ sknebel after you send it fails
# jgmac1106_ removing the h-card on the photographer
# jgmac1106_ I did think about wrapping the entire photo as it’s own h-entry since it has a different license and author,
# jgmac1106_ ahh okay, fixed that too
# jgmac1106_ thank you both…hopefully now all my templates are fixed
# crab i always thought the url in the h-entry was required
# jgmac1106_ let me check skenbel, it was on the indienews link only not indeweb.xyz or my endpoints
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "this exactly" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "this exactly is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# jgmac1106_ yeah once I expanded my broswer window I could read it
# jgmac1106_ can you had an overflow or break the text..it is my mistake but I could not read the error, eveything is there to fix it
# jgmac1106_ I probably didn’t look past the cur off, once I read no h-entry found
# jgmac1106_ can you you just had an overflow scroll? need to ask someone with more skill than me
# jgmac1106_ the table is correct, not sure why it didn’t scale
# jgmac1106_ good point, thanks, will remember. thx for the help, collecting webmentions as endorsements is fun
# jgmac1106_ on another ntoe redoing elmcitywebmakers.com as we are moving it to a statewide online program, I want to pay homage to IWC colors but these burn eyeballs: http://elmcitywebmakers.com/
# jgmac1106_ normally I just type in a hex number and randomlu choose a color pallette on a hue
# jgmac1106_ but if anyone has any color ideas this is right in the spectrum where I don’t make sense of anything and have to color by number
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# petermolnar cloudflare :/, serverless? serverless! (backstory: a colleague of mine got a bit frustrated with the term, he ended up responding "serverless!" as a reply to nearly anything for a day)
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# [KevinMarks] found a bug in13-year-old utility routine, sent a PR
# [KevinMarks] [petermolnar_] can you say JAMstack
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# [LewisCowles] petermolnar: I love your colleague. The inappropriate and appropriation of perfectly legible English, into pure garbage; almost seems a goal by some movements.
# [grantcodes] jamstack isn't serverless
# Ryuno-Ki jgmac1106_: regarding color palette: perhaps https://brandcolors.net/ could give you an idea
# [grantcodes] I think the netlify name of "cloud functions" is less misleading 😛
# Ryuno-Ki Well, Function-as-a-Service (FaaS) and Serverless aren't the same either from what I understand.
# jgmac1106_ thx!!
# swentel GWG, I have this issue with the desktop app: https://github.com/swentel/indigenous-desktop/issues/45 uses wp for micropub, but aperture for microsub. And he's getting 403 on the microsub call .. trying to think what might be wrong there.
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# [grantcodes] jacky: Won't any client with edit functionality work?
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jacky https://micropub.net/draft/#create marks it as `h=entry` by default and most (if not all) clients focus on that
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# [grantcodes] Ah, why don't you use entry? I'm sure people have already done it that way
# jacky I haven't seen much on /page or /custom_page in terms of implementation
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# [LewisCowles] well for some reason that led me down a path... https://indieweb.org/database-antipattern was found...
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# [LewisCowles] do people stand-by that?
# [KevinMarks] there are things databases are good for; storign pages may not be that.
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[jeremycherfas] !tell aaronpk Is there a way to see contents of a POST created by Quill?
# [LewisCowles] I'd strongly ask you to consider if file-systems are a great solution for that either. It's very XKCD
# Loqi Sink is an experimental site by Martijn van der Ven that allows anyone with an IndieAuth enabled URL to post to it using any Micropub client https://indieweb.org/Sink
# [jeremycherfas] Or I guess I could look in the console?
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# [jeremycherfas] OK. But it is a start. I’m pursuing the idea floated by ReneM[m] of using IFTTT or Zapier to PESOS photos from IG to WithKnown.
# [LewisCowles] [aaronpk]: it's not just indexing. Most take steps nobody here is taking to work around OS limits, but also, most are more standard and cross-platform than file-systems.
# [LewisCowles] do you use HFS, or HFS+, is it case-sensitive or not?
# [LewisCowles] Also at the point you've got a consistent file-system, even if you revise the structure going forward, it's just two schemas. You're less portable and standard than most db's
# [LewisCowles] oh man. so none of this is outside of opinion
# [LewisCowles] no I'm not. I've shared facts about file systems being inconsistent due to config
# [LewisCowles] I've challenged the notion of no database being a file-system
# [LewisCowles] because the kind of file-system you'd need to keep would be a poor persons database
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# [LewisCowles] the argument you're making is why to put everything micro-formats into p tags and divs with no HTML classes#
# [LewisCowles] that's the logical conclusion of the points you just made
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KartikPrabhu eh! no I use mf2 to store HTML files which are completely "semantic"
# [LewisCowles] exposing logical inconsistency. I was trying to get you to notice the behaviour, but I respect if you're done
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# [LewisCowles] FWIW I think the post on the wiki belongs in the fire. It's needlessly devisive, uses examples of poorly used technology to argue against that technology, for something which is an imitation of that technology. It's a different thing saying you don't need a database all the time, to exploring when you might need one, and gotchas to avoid.
# [LewisCowles] this is search'es fault. I was trying to find /custom_page
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@schneyra Building a Website With Sapper, @sveltejs and WordPress (Now with Webmentions!)
https://martinschneider.me/articles/building-a-website-with-sapper-and-wordpress/ (twitter.com/_/status/1247231969030701062)
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Zegnat Ruben’s data store: https://data.verborgh.org/ruben (thousands of LD triplets). Oh, and I do not remember having seen this, but there is a query tool aswell: http://query.verborgh.org/
# [LewisCowles] a type of database?
# [LewisCowles] I know what they are btw
# [LewisCowles] All a database is, is a way to organise data. Informal, like opt-in microformats, HTML, are still databases
# [LewisCowles] they just have fewer consistency parameters and features. you could argue the simplicity & permissive approach is desirable. That is not what calling a whole field of computing an anti-pattern is, regardless if you keep that to blog-posts, which have tags, categories, and other features that are difficult if not rolling your own database
# [LewisCowles] FYI, I've been through the anti-databases phase of youthful rebellion. It didn't take much to come out the other side.
# [LewisCowles] Even the examples against MySQL were silly. We used it badly, or they were attempting consistent collation (which files don't) is more software iteration cost than anything
# [jgmac1106] plurality++
# [jgmac1106] you get a good mix of both here
# [LewisCowles] sustainable file formats. How do you access / enable large amounts of data?
# [LewisCowles] you'll hit file open limits if you don't make it into a pseudo database at some point
# [LewisCowles] the second you start adding architecture tiers to mitigate that, you're building a database
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "adding architecture tiers" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "adding architecture tiers is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [LewisCowles] I'll add one in a bit
# [tantek] adding architecture tiers is /architecture_astronomy
# [LewisCowles] Webmention on my site is the only thing that uses a database. I did not write it, nor do I consider it an anti-pattern
# [LewisCowles] how are you avoiding file open limits which every single OS ever made has either explicitly (planned for failure) or implicitly (file handles exhaust ram).
# [tantek] [LewisCowles] plenty of us are handling it just fine: https://indieweb.org/file-storage
# [LewisCowles] works on one property is an exercise in me either probing / attacking a system I have no sight of, or accepting the claim. I'd feel more comfortable with some form of what that means as it's a blurry picture to me. I am reading the article which defines an application-specific semi-opaque (with desires to be fully open) database. It might not be MySQL, but it's probably more rigid and less standard / open to comprehension than SQL
# [LewisCowles] Not an attack btw
# [LewisCowles] more... How does it mitigate file open limts?
# [LewisCowles] so many things have implemented SQL, including many "NoSQL" stores, that it's likely more interoperable than any OS filesystem, due to FS differences even within configurations of a FS
# [LewisCowles] Well the only assumption to counter is limiting the number of visitors
# [tantek] Check out the examples if you like to understand how lots of us have solved this, have it running in the wild just fine: https://indieweb.org/file-storage#IndieWeb_Examples
# 
gRegorLove On the plus side /database-antipattern reads much better than it used to several years ago :)
# [LewisCowles] https://indieweb.org/Falcon#Storage_format not https://indieweb.org/Falcon. I see I'm reading the wrong thing
# [LewisCowles] can you see tantek how that is very xkcd to make a new format to replace all the flawed inconsistent ones out there?
# Loqi ok, I added "database anti-pattern" to the "See Also" section of /Error_establishing_a_database_connection https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=69414&oldid=57396
# [LewisCowles] it's linked the other way, but locality++
# [LewisCowles] also better faith argument++
# [LewisCowles] I mean supplant any property with another
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# [LewisCowles] you do have a solution in files to memory map your way through though. Falcon++
# [LewisCowles] for an individual website that's a nice touch
# [Aaron_Klemm] Looking at IndieAuth and wanting deploy my own authorization endpoint, can anyone catch me up A) the state of IndieAuth...all good and healthy and recommended? B) Which software should I use. self-auth, acquiescence, and cellar door look like the candidates. Which is considered ready to use and remains maintained?
# [Aaron_Klemm] I've read the excellent IndieAuth page on the wiki and looked through the activity on each project, but still am a little fuzzy how to proceed. I don't understand the flow as clearly as I did OpenID way back in the day when I last implemented such a thing.
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "cellar door" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "cellar door is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [LewisCowles] IndieAuth is great. I use IndieLogin.com (canonical). It's maintained
# [Aaron_Klemm] Cellar Door is a project that aims to provide a well-tested personal authorization server that implements the IndieAuth protocol. https://github.com/nilsnh/cellar-door
# [LewisCowles] I've contributed towards it and have found that a valuable way to learn
# [Aaron_Klemm] Ok, selfauth sounds great. Thanks for validating!
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@knuspermagier Ich würd ja Webmentions in den Blog einbauen, aber wo bringt man da die DSGVO-Checkbox unter. (twitter.com/_/status/1247252326819213315)
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# [Aaron_Klemm] Glad to be here
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@mauricerenck ↩️ Ich habe ein Kommentarplugin für Kirby geschrieben, dass auch webmentions macht, aber daran habe ich tatsächlich nicht gedacht. Wenn man selber welche verschickt ist das ja kein Thema, aber ich hole mir auch Twitter replies rein, das ist könnte also wirklich relevant sein... (twitter.com/_/status/1247268013771980800)
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@RubygemsN webmention (2.1.0): A Ruby gem for sending Webmention notifications. https://rubygems.org/gems/webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1247271975224889345)
# jgmac1106_ snarfed not critical at all but trying to determine if I could send a webmention from http://longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=namespace:update_on_indieweb_wiki tells me to add a profile page but I can’t find the exact link
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# jgmac1106_ yes, my mistake, and trying to figure out what link, if any possible to add to my twitter bio, its really for S&G, just peaked my curiosity
# [snarfed] i see http://longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=start in your bridgy account. try dropping the path? ie put just https://longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/ in your twitter bio
# jgmac1106_ yes it tells me to add: y. Check that longthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/doku.php?id=na.../about#profile-link">
# jgmac1106_ okay will do thx
# jgmac1106_ that worked I need to add a p-summary, thanks
# jgmac1106_ I think in a weird way, this was so easy to do and with a blog and a wiki, people I know may want use a tool like this
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# [snarfed] if i want to find an h-feed's "author," i'm currently using https://indieweb.org/authorship, but i suspect that's wrong, since it's meant for posts. sounds like i should use the h-feed's p-author mf2 property, and if that's not provided, fall back to... https://indieweb.org/representative_h-card ?
# [snarfed] background: https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/195
# sknebel [snarfed]: I feel like the autorship algorithm (https://indieweb.org/authorship-spec) mostly applies. replace "h-entry" with "h-feed", skip step 4
# @knuspermagier Webmentions, oder nicht, das ist die Frage!
https://knuspermagier.de/posts/2020/dsgvo-buzzkill (twitter.com/_/status/1247281757046611976)
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# 
@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I wrote and intro article a while back for A List Apart and @JmacDotOrg just wrote a good one. Perhaps @JGarber might be a useful resource within the Ruby world? Next take a look at the Webmention page of the IndieWeb wiki which has resources [more...]
https://boffosocko.com/2020/04/06/webmention-and-ruby-related-resources/ (twitter.com/_/status/1247293606777389056)
# sivy hey folks
# sivy dumb q
# sivy any idea why I can reach an amzn.to link from my worksatation fine, but from my linode its gets a 503
# sivy evn weirder, with curl on the linode i get a 301
# sivy locally i get 200 (probably post-redirect)
# sivy let me check somethng else
# sivy yeah if i load the redirected url from the linode it’s a 503
# sivy (basically this is in a webmention context)
# sivy hi [snarfed]
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# [LewisCowles] sivy, the 301 is the redirect
# [LewisCowles] you may need to preserve some state like cookies
# [LewisCowles] browsers do this by default. CURL may not, which says awful things about t.co links, but it's equally as likely the endpoint in question is genuinely returning a 503 sometimes
# [LewisCowles] also apologies. amzn.to not t.co although I like neither
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