#dev 2020-05-09
2020-05-09 UTC
# 
fuzzyBear =)
# fuzzyBear out of curiosity, which one would be the better way? if that is a question, or which would be the better way of writting it
# fuzzyBear next daft question(tbh I got loads, since Im self learning I find its difficult to get some clairty to some of these nuances that come accross the material
# fuzzyBear since JS is based on an Event Loop, which is a really complex for loop
# fuzzyBear and the engine is tuned for for loops, why does the language have other types of loops like while and do loops
# fuzzyBear one can throw your computer to searching for infinitiy and the other does nothing useful. so why have them
# fuzzyBear my next question is how do you know which method to use when you come across a problem, (this is problay more fundemental and would help me out, I find when I am looking at the problems and trying to figure out the solutions I just cant seem to find a way (yet) to get my solution into code
# 
KartikPrabhu we try to keep the discusison here specific to indieweb. Maybe #indieweb-chat channel is better for such general questions
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# fuzzyBear lol them lot told me to come here to ask questions
# fuzzyBear noted, sorry
# KartikPrabhu no need to apologise fuzzyBear, just keeping the discussion here in focus :)
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# 
jacky noticing that I might have a bug since it doesn't pick up the `in-reply-to` URL for tantek's post http://lighthouse.test.black.af/test?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2020%2F127%2Ft2%2F
# dansup hey jacky
# dansup working on FediDB, have you seen it yet? https://fedidb.org/rb/LRFKRSzEKg2lKYuoQCPN/log/164568648210583552/headers
# dansup try following https://fedidb.org/actor/LRFKRSzEKg2lKYuoQCPN and check the logs ;)
# dansup trying to make AP easier for devs as well as test new features for Pixelfed
# dansup anyways, didn't mean to interrupt your wheels, have a good night bro!
# dansup yeah its like a http request bin with a valid AP actor, I'm adding support for various AS verbs so you can test a wide variety of interactions
# dansup because it does federate, I need to keep track of instances to send federated deletes when the bin expires. Thats what I'm doing now
# dansup follows don't support mastodon yet, but it works with pleroma and pixelfed
# dansup mastodon has very strict validation lol
# dansup heh
# dansup If you have any advice or feedback for FediDB lmk!
# dansup nobody has joined yet, i'm still working on a few bugfixes before I open it up
# dansup there are so many verbs, the validator has taken a lot of time 😅
# dansup you can post an object and validate or generate a [mastodon|pixelfed] verb
# dansup I'm hoping we can crowdsource more objects to generate
# dansup http sigs can be tricky too, I made a validator that debugs the most common problems
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[KevinMarks] well, that's the reason people are adding it in the first place.
# [KevinMarks] I agree that having a good validator loop matters; us having multiple ones can possibly confuse people. But as it is up to the consuming app how they present things I'm not sure how we avoid that. I'm the worst offender with unmung having a load of random presentations and no docs; indiewebify is the closest to a walkthrough
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# [LewisCowles] Zegnat++
# [LewisCowles] I won't dispute a majority as I have no data. But I personally used schema in the past because it supported a wide range of machine-parsable formats so that I could extract value from a page in-lieu of a database as part of front-to-back migrations, where the database is a known erroneous state, which is corrected before output, or contains vendor-specific hacks
# [LewisCowles] migrating an oracle database to anything is a test of patience at the data-layer because they like to crap as much incidental detail into their database solution as possible. A Frontend can supply a more utilitarian view
# [LewisCowles] and works okay for logical division / extracting user-domains. It's a bit misleading if you want domains to be owned by a business unit (BU)
# [LewisCowles] The above are reasons I disagree strongly with the "If you don't have a consumer" arguments
# 
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Schema" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Schema is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi schema.org is a set of vocabularies created by a group at Google, in some cases based on existing vocabularies like microformats hCard, and in others re-inventing vocabularies instead of re-using specs like Atom or RSS, then co-launched in 2011 with fellow search-engine Microsoft Bing, and their search licensee Yahoo, still run by them and additional search engine Yandex https://indieweb.org/schema.org
# [LewisCowles] I used schema.org in-case it were needed for frontend to backend migration. Every system I've had to front-to-back migrate was manually processed using template inspection, which is shorter and cheaper than diving into oracle, but more expensive than needing to parse out from a schema that is pre-defined. It's a middle ground saving a fair bit of time with a carrot google might like them, but that being a tangential benefit rather than the
# [LewisCowles] If you crap your reviews into a soup of divs and spans, it's fairly likely it might be very problematic or even manual to transfer them at a later date to a system. If you use schema.org you know you're covered for most SaaS providers properties, which can easily be transformed or read by those providers. Fairly certain that Trustpilot took >10,000 reviews from a website I worked on by parsing the frontend
# [LewisCowles] end-goal.
# [LewisCowles] It's not an argument for schema.org specifically, but rather any non-not-invented-here frontend markup with semi-logical structure
# [LewisCowles] a larger problem is in systems with non-uniform unit sizes
# [LewisCowles] 5 may be 5 stars or 5/10
# [LewisCowles] sure and had I known about microformats I may have used
# [LewisCowles] this was over 6 years ago
# [LewisCowles] mf likely existed, but wasn't on my radar and even now seems to have less market share
# [LewisCowles] market share can also be thought-share. If something has a million users, it could be likely to support more edges than something with 5 users (not that either figure reflects these two)
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# [LewisCowles] On my personal website I'll use things I'd never deploy to a customer. That is a pity, but both are machine-readable inline. One goes from data-format -> text -> data-format, the other although text is already in data-format representation. I can see why people use it. I understand and to some degree buy-into not repeating yourself.
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[jgmac1106] making img-maps in photoshop actually quite straight forward, do wish I knew more about the css only pop up modals I have been seeing be nice to combine
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[grantcodes] Probably a dialog element? They can work without js but they're better with js
# [LewisCowles] for more information on dialogs https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/3567 may help. then again it may be awful
# [LewisCowles] don't be misled by the unfurl, lots of in-depth discussion of JS and non-JS methods
# [jgmac1106] ha ha jeremycherfas the photoshop img splicing doesn't use an img-map at all...it is old school you get a table with each link being a gif in a specific cell
# [KevinMarks] Ah, you don't want that.
# [jgmac1106] no, not all
# [jgmac1106] I was trying photoshop to avoid that..
# [KevinMarks] Make the image map by hand, you just need coords
# [KevinMarks] Or draw hot areas over your image in an svg editor and link them.
# [jgmac1106] yeah I can still use photoshop to get the gridlines, was thinking of trying svg, need to learn more vector graphics anyways
# [jgmac1106] kevinmarks++ moving on to this and Illustrator: https://www.creativebloq.com/netmag/create-responsive-svg-image-maps-51411831
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jeremycherfas Oh well; live and learn.
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# [LewisCowles] does anyone else have a clusertHAT for raspberry Pi?
# [LewisCowles] Mine keeps turning off p1 when p4 is booted and p4 when p1 is booted from USB. Fairly annoying
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# [LewisCowles] I think it's power related. I'll plug the cluster HAT into a power only USB
# [LewisCowles] well. I'll try that anyway. It's on a 2.4A 5V power supply
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# lahacker following up from last week's wc hwc chat regarding browser extensions i've followed the rabbit hole full circle (?) to a dead reference at https://wiki.mozilla.org/HCard to the `Operator` of yesterdecade https://web.archive.org/web/20110610050725/https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/operator/
# lahacker does anyone remember using it? would that be a desirable thing to have today?
# lahacker reading up on browser extension "best practices" https://extensionworkshop.com/documentation/develop/user-experience-best-practices/ i see the "page action" is the most appropriate UX for the case of finding microformats on the current page
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# lahacker zegnat yeah same but it was a different time
# lahacker the most recent discussions revolve around leveraging in-page <indie-action>s which seems kind of kludgy from a UX perspective
# lahacker like i have to look around for the place in the page that had the original reply button just to find an incompatibly style button
# lahacker maybe there's a use case i'm not seeing
# lahacker yeah you're right -- web hero just went about that one wrong
# Loqi Omnibear is a browser extension for posting text notes, replies, and likes to your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/Omnibear
# lahacker ahh yes this is the missing piece
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# lahacker zegnat++
# lahacker good stuff in there -- going to come up with some hybrid of them all!
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# [KevinMarks] There's the fragmention one too, birthdays also very limited
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Zegnat Anyone have any ideas what the difference might be in Travis running phpunit on PHP 7.3, and me running it locally? I have a couple of tests that I am passing locally but that Travis fails: https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/pull/163#issuecomment-626231088 compare https://travis-ci.org/github/microformats/php-mf2/jobs/685139785
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jmac Webmention storage question: If a friend sends a wm to http://jmac.org, and (after a forward) https://jmac.org is happy to receive it, what is the recorded target of that wm?
# jmac Anyway, in the past I've cheated by surreptitiously editing the stored http://... into https://..., but that doesn't seem ideal
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# jmac Also not ideal is to understand a query for "Show me all mentions for https://jmac.org" as "Show me all mentions for https://jmac.org and also every URL that might forward to it"
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# sudomake hello, I am getting a white page after upgrading to php 7.3.
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# jmac However, according to https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjmac.org%2Ftech-writing-portfolio%2F (which links to one arbitrary page on my website that's not the front page), this isn't quite right, and the h-card on every page is supposed to have a u-url property matching the page it's on -- it's not enough to just refer to my website's front page. Is that correct?
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[tantek] in particular these parts of [Katherine]’s request: "create blog posts via SMS", "a website for me and my friends to share links to articles under a common domain", "i want my friends to be able to send texts with a URL and a short description to accompany the post then it'll appear on the site like a light weight blog [post]"
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# [KevinMarks] Quill has micropub by email, so potentially could use sms to email for that
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[schmarty] Posting by SMS really takes me back!
# [schmarty] That's gonna vary person to person for sure. Back when I co-built an MMS-to-photoblog social sharing site it was the only "output" available on most mobile devices!
# [schmarty] These days I'd guess the appeal is it's a distraction-free, extremely minimal UI for making low-effort posts
# [schmarty] OH! Also SMS meant you had an "identifier" for the author. Nowadays we recognize how insecure that is but it was powerful not to have to log in to things
# [schmarty] On boarding new people to the photoblog was just a matter of giving them the email address to MMS at. Their source address (phone number, basically) would identify the sender.
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# [schmarty] signups--