#dev 2020-05-15

2020-05-15 UTC
xsteadfastx and [LewisCowles] joined the channel
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[LewisCowles] sebsel, if a string should be an array, can you not split it on whitespace?
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[manton] Catching up on that iA Writer discussion… Micro.blog mostly ignores the "type", to be honest, since basically everything in Micro.blog is an "h-entry".
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aaronpk That explains how that happened then :-)
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[manton] WordPress's Micropub plugin must be equally forgiving of the format, since I know that was used to test iA Writer too.
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aaronpk Do you know if they looked at micropub.rocks?
nickodd, [tw2113], geoffo, deepcut, [tantek], KartikPrabhu, AshleySky and swentel joined the channel
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sebsel nice, that was the other reason to go to bed first: giving [manton] time to catch up :)
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sebsel [LewisCowles]: I am not trying to fix my endpoint here. I am following the spec. If I were to be more forgiving like Wordpress seems to be, I would put the given string in an array as it's only member. But I kind of don't want to, I like to follow the spec.
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jacky regarding micropub.rocks (is there a way to make that list a bit more collapsed?
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jacky like versus showing all of the lights; showing three of them (pass/fail/not-run) and then doing the list of sites with the those lights to the right?
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jacky just to prevent that run-off one sees right now
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sebsel e-mail sent :)
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sebsel yea I explicitly said in the e-mail that I didn't think it would make sense for iA Writer to support the whole suite, for it's not a full Micropub client.
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sebsel but there is already a note at the top that says you don't need to pass them all
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sebsel you can maybe group them by "what kind of app are you?"
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sebsel But I really think Micropub.rocks is already a very good tool
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sebsel aaronpk++ for Micropub.rocks
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Loqi aaronpk has 60 karma in this channel over the last year (215 in all channels)
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sebsel or maybe a button to mark the test as "I don't intend to support this", to be able to complete the list without red :)
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[tantek] hmmm, any aspects of a specification that are optional "don't need to pass them all" should be explicitly documented in the spec, not the test suite, either coarsely as different classes of implementations, or more fine grained as "should" rather than "must" statements.
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[tantek] the test suite should only be making any assertions about what needs or does not need to be passed by referencing/citing those classes of implementations or specific "should" statements.
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[tantek] ideally, individual implementations should not have to make judgment calls about what should/should not be supported, because that tends to harm ecosystem interop over time
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sebsel that is a good point
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[LewisCowles] In 1600 the English specification people followed was far different from the English we speak today.
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[LewisCowles] Specs evolve through usage. Single string, or array of strings seem like similarly shaped things over here.
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[LewisCowles] Data isn't missing, it's mis-represented, in a trivially compatible way.
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[LewisCowles] Email clients suffer the same problems and are very mature software.
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[LewisCowles] At the end of the day, I guess it depends on how important something is.
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[LewisCowles] i.e. if it's important, then permissive HTML / CSS approach
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[LewisCowles] if it's not important. JavaScript / Imperative programming approach
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[LewisCowles] I'd argue that throwing away trivially non-compliant things, says that the perceived value is trivial, because I'd rather have most of an important message, than have it lost.
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[LewisCowles] Could be horribly wrong, but we're not talking about an invalid value or something likely to crash a bank here
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[grantcodes] Back to personal website development today and I just found out next js released the exact feature I have always wanted 😍 I'm on my way to a best of both worlds static / dynamic site
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sknebel what is that magic feature? :D
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "that magic feature" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "that magic feature is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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sknebel shush Loqi
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[grantcodes] sknebel: they've been working a lot on dynamically generating static content. So the newest release (if I understand it right) lets you initially generate a static html page then it can be regenerated again if there is new data without rebuilding the entire site
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[grantcodes] https://nextjs.org/blog/next-9-4#incremental-static-regeneration-beta
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sknebel I always forget that's *not* a standard feature with static generators...
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[grantcodes] Last release also added a lot of stuff for it https://nextjs.org/blog/next-9-3#next-gen-static-site-generation-ssg-support
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[grantcodes] It feels really good to me, but still kinda trying to get my head around it all 😅
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petermolnar anyone has some sort of non-cloud load balancing and/or redundancy over their web presence? Things such as anycast or similar.
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sknebel petermolnar: while I've been tempted to get an ASN, not quite at that level yet :D
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sknebel okay, anycast isn't the only option. my hosting provider offers failover IPs inside their DC, and one could do DNS failover, but I have neither setup
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petermolnar DNS failover is tricky. One either sets a very low TTL which hits performance, or accepts downtime.
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sknebel yeah
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sknebel DIY anycast means IPv6 only, or spending way more money than I'd be willing to spend. all "as a service" in that regard you'd probably label as "cloud".
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[KevinMarks] if you use excel for anything, this is very handy https://twitter.com/arambaut/status/1261257821967880193
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@arambaut Just discovered that if you set the Mac OS X short date format to ISO 8601 in System Preferences then that is the format that Excel defaults to. All the pain and anguish over the years that could have been avoided with just a bit of googling. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYDjTZRWkAAHaG9.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1261257821967880193)
[LewisCowles], geoffo, d0gfart, [schmarty], garrettw, [tantek], nickodd, [chrisaldrich] and [tw2113] joined the channel
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[schmarty] thinking about whan and "IndieWeb alternative to GIPHY" might look like and i am thinking way back to the early 2000s days of like "save a folder on your computer"
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[schmarty] wow i am typo-ing all over the place today. "whan and" => "what an"
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sknebel I guess one could do a list of gif-feeds and then a search over those
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[schmarty] like a service to help you collaboratively manage and tag your own collection of reaction images / gifs.
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sknebel since a good part of giphy from what I understand is the search thing
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[schmarty] yeah, you'd join with your own gif-fed
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[schmarty] *gif-feed
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[schmarty] if you support micropub you could even accept tags on those from other users
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sknebel or tag-of mentions
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sknebel wait no, tag-of wasfor people
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sknebel :d
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sknebel :D
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[schmarty] haha true
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[schmarty] this part of the "Prohibitions on Content" section of the gfycat.com API Terms of Service would seem to make things... tricky. "Unless expressly permitted by the content owner or by applicable law, you will not, and or others acting on your behalf to, do the following with content returned from the APIs: ... b. Copy, translate, modify, create a derivative work of, sell, lease, lend, convey, distribute, publicly display, or sublicense to any
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[schmarty] third party;"
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[schmarty] since i want to publicly display these reaction images on my own website (and maybe copy to my own image hosting). not to mention that i want them to also appear on _other people's_ websites if i am reacting to their posts. 🤔
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[chrisaldrich] Isn't GifFed the new Activity Pub platform for federating gifs? 😉
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sknebel hm, does the custom emoji stuff some ActivityPub implementations have have any kind of federated search?
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[snarfed] i haven't seen global/federated search anywhere there, no
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[snarfed] already sounds hard, probably is even harder in reality
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aaronpk heh
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jacky sknebel: AFAIK, nah; it's like cached from when you see it
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[KevinMarks] there's https://gifcities.org/
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[KevinMarks] the custom emojis get cached on each mastodon server, right? Can you address an imported one?
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[schmarty] oh gifcities is very good! KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (56 in all channels)
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[schmarty] needs a caching layer in front so large GIFs can be transcoded to mp4, etc. 😂
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[tantek] were GIFs ever CC-licensed on any of these sites?
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[tantek] if not, that's certainly a fresh opportunity
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[tantek] CC-licensed GIF repository
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[tantek] I'll give you a hint: seed it with Wikimedia GIFs
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[KevinMarks] gif as video codec was something I thought we were done with 15 years agi
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[tantek] schmarty, can you switch Kapowski to use https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Animated_GIF_files ?
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[schmarty] tantek: ha!! Probably??
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[tantek] people are looking for alternatives *right now*. start with that
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[tantek] call it Kapowski 2.0!
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[snarfed] interesting network partition going on right now. https://superfeedr.com/ has been down hard for me on comcast residential for at least the last hour or two, serving 502/503s, but it's up and working fine from other networks, eg my shared host and my college
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[tantek] SPOF--
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Loqi SPOF has -1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] snarfed, that begs the question, is anyone supporting multiple WebSub hubs from their site?
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[snarfed] no clue
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[snarfed] (superfeedr is back up for me now)
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[snarfed] interesting part about that network partition was that i was still reaching superfeedr's own servers. they're the ones that served me the 50xes. (without cookies/logged in session, etc.) no clue why they did that for me but worked from elsewhere. computers 🤷
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[tantek] ah that sounds like some sort of IP blocklisting
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[tantek] common Apache IP blocking techniques cause 500 errors to be returned promptly to those source IPs
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[snarfed] weird that they'd use 502/503
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[tantek] yes that is odd as I'd expect 500
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[snarfed] and also that it cleared up on its own
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[tantek] IP blocks come and go?
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[snarfed] or 429
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[snarfed] but 🤷
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[snarfed] yeah maybe
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[tantek] I'm thinking of automatically syndicating any post of mine with either an indieweb / indiewebcamp (hash)tag, OR indieweb / indiweebcamp literally in the post name, to IndieNews
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[snarfed] no matter
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[tantek] any thoughts on how that could "go wrong"?
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[tantek] key thing here is that I only automatically syndicate to IndieNews when it's a post relevant to the IndieWeb
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[tantek] and does anyone else do any automatic syndication to IndieNews like this?
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[snarfed] how are replies (eg tweets), likes, etc rendered? would they accidentally match?
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[tantek] ah I could not-syndicate responses
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[tantek] replies could match because they could have an indieweb hashtag
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[tantek] same with RSVPs, and GitHub issues!
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aaronpk i mention indieweb enough times that I didn't want to set up automatic syndication
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aaronpk here's a feed from a bunch of our blogs mentioning various indieweb terms https://stream.indieweb.org/
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aaronpk to give you a sense of that kind of automatic syndication
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[snarfed] ^ right. i imagine getting the matching "just right" would be tough
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[tantek] I guess I post rarely enough that I wasn't too worried but that's a good point
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[tantek] hence why I would NOT do just a plain text search
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[tantek] to me, if I hashtag it indieweb, I'm saying this post is about the indieweb
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[tantek] similarly if "indieweb" makes it into the name of a post, it's clearly a post about the indieweb
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aaronpk i went through this thought experiment a while ago too, and searched for posts matching what would have been my automatic criteria
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aaronpk i decided against automating it at the end of the day though
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aaronpk it's fuzzy, but too many of the posts didn't feel "news"-worthy enough
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[grantcodes] Heh ran a first - very not optimized - static export of my previously dynamic site and it took 17 minutes. 😅
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aaronpk in fact looking through the last few posts of mine with the hashtag indieweb, i wouldn't post those to indienews either
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[tantek] aaronpk, interesting. I could start conservatively, with only blog posts with IndieWeb in the name
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aaronpk my blog posts with the indieweb hashtag are a higher match
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[tantek] maybe I don't understand the purpose of IndieNews
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[tantek] hmm, this would have been good for IndieNews: https://ia.net/writer/blog/new-pdf-preview-better-web-publishing-improved-editing
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[tantek] or maybe a blog post summarizing the IndieWeb aspects of it right there in the name of the post
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[chrisaldrich] iirc pfefferle has a plugin on github for WP to auto syndicate anything tagged #indienews to crosspost to news.indieweb.org.
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[chrisaldrich] I thought about doing it by tag, but I also post lots of bookmarks and reads as IndieWeb which would create a lot of duplictation.
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[chrisaldrich] About a year ago I created a category/feed on my site called IndieWeb that has my IndieWeb related content (esp. articles), and I've relegated all the other smaller stuff (and especially links to others' content) to a tag called IndieWeb.
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[chrisaldrich] I'd have to look, but I might be able to get away with autosyndicating everything in that Category, but I'd never think of doing it with the content in the tag.
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jamietanna I like the thought of anything tagged as #indienews - but if I'm posting that, the editor I'm using likely has the ability to populate the actual syndication UI, so I'd just tick IndieNews there :thinking:
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] bookmarks and reads are "responses" so by excluding responses you would avoid that problem
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[tantek] jamietanna, using "#indienews" as an explicit hashtag trigger makes sense
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[tantek] maybe check to see what that hashtag show on existing aggregations / silos
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[chrisaldrich] I'm essentially using a checkbox with a syndication target to do that syndication now. It's functionality that's built into the WordPress Syndication Links Plugin now.
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[chrisaldrich] The benefit is that it's easy for Micropub clients that include that to provide one click syndication as well.
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[tantek] !tell aaronpk iA Writer Micropub support is probably worth a blog post, e.g. with screenshots on the setup flow, using it, and the result on your blog! And of course a summary table of the growing "Micropub ecosystem" of clients and servers. That's the larger story to tell (and yours to tell as spec editor!)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] (I was going to write up something brief but figured it'd be better if it had details like that, and that sounded like something you'd be better at)
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aaronpk I haven't tested it on my site yet but I suspect I will also need them to push the fix first
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Loqi aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 1 minute ago: iA Writer Micropub support is probably worth a blog post, e.g. with screenshots on the setup flow, using it, and the result on your blog! And of course a summary table of the growing "Micropub ecosystem" of clients and servers. That's the larger story to tell (and yours to tell as spec editor!)
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[chrisaldrich] It also may be a bigger win if ThreadReaderApp's micropub functionality comes out relatively soon as well since that will be an implementation that shows off a similar, but dramatically different use case for Micropub.
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aaronpk oo yes
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[tantek] I think it's a bigger win when you get to announce something like that "every week"
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[tantek] rolling thunder as it were rather than big bang
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[tantek] also https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients#iA_Writer could use screenshots
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[chrisaldrich] we should start a fleet of micropub support requests to build some runway for that "every week" event in the future... 😉
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Loqi definitely
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[chrisaldrich] If I can find the time this weekend, I'll try to document the WordPress workflow from a user perspective.
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[chrisaldrich] has anyone tried iA Writer from the WordPress side yet?
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[tantek] What is iawriter
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "iawriter" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "iawriter is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Hmm
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[tantek] What is Ia writer
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Loqi Micropub clients are sites and client applications that publish to servers via Micropub https://indieweb.org/iA_Writer
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[tantek] Ok it definitely deserves its own page
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[tantek] iawriter is /iA_Writer
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Loqi ok