#dev 2020-06-09

2020-06-09 UTC
geoffo, [tantek], [chrisaldrich], [KevinMarks], [schmarty], [LewisCowles], [snarfed], nekr0z, gRegorLove_, KartikPrabhu and nekr0z[m] joined the channel
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@bixtweets Does the @WordPress “comments blocklist” filter trackbacks/pings/webmentions, too? And does it just block content, or could I block anything coming in from, say, domain.tld? (twitter.com/_/status/1270252003327803395)
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@bixtweets I’ve decided to put the internal references project on indefinite hold until I can really think deeply about it, and am thinking about just going ahead and not only accepting trackbacks, pingbacks, and webmentions but displaying them publicly on ... https://bix.blog/2020/06/09/ive-decided-to.html (twitter.com/_/status/1270258684569026560)
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petermolnar I can't find who mentioned integromat (ifttt / zapier alternative): unlike ifttt, they have more, than 1 step option, and unlike zapier, their free tier is not limited to 1 step actions, so I've built https://cloud.petermolnar.net/index.php/s/Bmc67cs6k3t4YL9/preview and curious how well it'll work.
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@miklb Why ignore existing tools like webmentions? (twitter.com/_/status/1270354547576274945)
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@miklb ↩️ Think? I’d ask you to go read the spec https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1270356177369661443)
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@tomcritchlow ↩️ Think these are different things. Tho if they become hosted somewhere you could integrate them. Also if your site supports webmentions everything will just work here. There's a link in the html source (twitter.com/_/status/1270355544541454336)
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@miklb ↩️ There is a “Pingback” element to let you know I’ve cited your work, but there is structure on my end to “cite” the type of content I’m sharing. If you don’t support webmentions, I still use structured markup beyond the HTML. (twitter.com/_/status/1270358679506878464)
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@tomcritchlow ↩️ Correct me if I'm wrong but I think webmentions are sent at the blog post level not the paragraph level. Am I missing something? (twitter.com/_/status/1270358534744682497)
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@petermolnar ↩️ "Quoteback" certainly looks like a cross between #webmention and #oembed but mostly webmention indeed. It'd be nice if the underlying workings were compatible - win-win, right? (twitter.com/_/status/1270357541411852288)
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aaronpk It seems like quoteback is just a tool to generate fancy block quotes?
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petermolnar fancy, inaccessible, JS based block quotes, yes
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aaronpk The JS is a progressive enhancement tho
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petermolnar the guy is not familiar with the indieweb rule of "I invented X" => [tantek] or aaronpk thought about it, implemented it, and made it a standard 5 years ago
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[snarfed] it's https://indieweb.org/marginalia , right?
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[snarfed] Kit's
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@schnarfed ↩️ correct. the corollary to your quoteback idea is probably https://indieweb.org/marginalia, ie webmentions to https://indieweb.org/fragmention links, which identify specific points in text. (twitter.com/_/status/1270360011265331200)
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@petermolnar ↩️ There is no requirement like that. You can send a webmention if you have a link to another site anywhere. Also worth bringing up: https://indieweb.org/fragmention https://indieweb.org/Salmention (twitter.com/_/status/1270359361836257282)
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@aaronpk ↩️ It seems like Quoteback is a tool to make fancy looking blockquotes that you can put into your own blog post? If your blog sends webmentions then it would Just Work™ right? (twitter.com/_/status/1270359271071334402)
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[manton] [aaronpk] Do be clear on M.b, it doesn't know about RSVPs yet. What I do is just edit the post to add the RSVP bits. Speaking of… For this RSVP, should the events site have picked up the author on the page? Name and URL are blank for my RSVP. https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/indiewebcamp-west-2020-ZB8zoAAu6sdN
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[manton] Here's the MF2: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manton.org%2F2020%2F06%2F08%2Fill-be-attending.html
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[manton] (Sorry, "to be clear", I meant.)
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[manton] Guess I need an author reference in the post itself, not just on the page.
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[manton] Sort of fixed now by adding a hidden author and photo to my post.
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jacky so let's say I get a Webmention from a page that doesn't have any microformats on it
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jacky I have a tool that'll attempt to "build" mf2 for some pages (though it's obviously not terribly useful)
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jacky like if it's coming from a AS2 powered page that has no MF2, it'll attempt to rebuild from its AS2 rendering
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jacky but if it has none (like something coming from Ars Technica), I'm wondering what to do in that case
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jacky I've been tempted to internally build a mf2+json structure that represents a h-cite pointing to the page but I don't think that's enough
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jacky I'm more temped to refactor this stuff into something like xray (or to just lean on a self-hosted instance of xray)
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jacky (this is coming from me wanting to aggregate mentions of me from google news alerts into my site
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jacky er, more like have something that'll send a webmention to my site whenever it notices a new item in the RSS feed
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jacky (the basis of building a RSS feed for alerts is here: https://www.howtogeek.com/444549/how-to-create-an-rss-feed-from-a-google-alert/)
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Loqi [Brady Gavin] Should you want to eliminate all email notifications you receive from Google Alerts, you can set them up as an RSS feed and bundle them in one place. Here’s how to send your alerts directly to your feed. You can already find and create an RSS feed ...
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jacky I think if I wanted to _not_ use Google for this, I'd have to build something that'd listen to a bunch of 'news sites' (or just sites I'm interested in) over WebSub and have something else go to that hypothetical service above
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[tantek] jacky, it's a good question. I would start with the visual design goal you want first, literally manually add it to the markup of your posts, then tweak that until it looks like what you want it to look like. Once you've figured out the visual design end goal with live / real content, then we can talk precisely about what plumbing would most efficiently achieve that goal.
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[tantek] and the "not use Google for this", lol that's literally what we built with Technorati, an ability to get alerts when you got links/mentions from any blog etc.
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[tantek] (not just news sites, literally anything with a feed or blog home page an permalinks)
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jacky That's where I started (and how I settled on using a h-cite, versus just stubbing it out as a mention). Granted, I don't get Google Alerts a lot anymore so it's not pressing but I can see this being useful for people who do tend to have more traffic
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jacky oh TIL
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jacky hm so since this is a less-visible thing (a webmention feed that's dynamically built from static info), I might just manually insert the rows and MF2+JSON into my setup
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jacky it'll be done in a back-date fashion
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[schmarty] I am a fan of turning things into h-cite! That's how all link previews are represented on my posts. I will sometimes go add it to solo posts by hand.
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jacky tbh that might be the most ideal route
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[tantek] I also think h-cite is a good place to start the plumbing for richer/explicit references to other things.
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jacky like I'm looking into it for lwa as well; if the provided site doesn't have the reply context, I could use some client-side "magic" to provide it
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jacky precisely [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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[tantek] so far I think I"m only using h-cite for reply contexts myself
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[snarfed] jacky: i assume you've seen https://telegraph.p3k.io/superfeedr ?
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[snarfed] and re generating reply contexts w/o mf2, there are a bunch of open source libs and tools that try to make sense of arbitrary pages and make best guesses as to author, title, etc
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[snarfed] i think some of the better ones are from one or more of the "read it later" services
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jacky I have _not_
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jacky hmm this is specific for linking to one's site
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jacky that's def half of the journey (for me); I have articles I'm mentioned by name that I'd want to get webmentions (and I know that I'm more likely to be mentioned by name than linked)
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[tantek] treat the like homepage mentions
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[tantek] what is a homepage mention
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Loqi person mention is a homepage webmention sent to a person's homepage https://indieweb.org/homepage_mention
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jacky oh totally
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[snarfed] afaik the telegraph/superfeedr approach can work for all pages on a domain, not just homepage
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[snarfed] related background: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/420
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Loqi [snarfed] #420 extend blog webmentions feature to all web sites
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jacky random feedback-y thing: I have this page on Lwa that feels a bit cluttered tbh https://lwa.black.af/sessions/check?_utf8=%E2%9C%93&me=https%3A%2F%2Fjacky.wtf%2F
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jacky I do want to replace it a monochromatic-NASAR-y thing of the protocols but I think it might be just better to show the CTA at the bottom when it's all good https://lwa.black.af/sessions/check?_utf8=%E2%9C%93&me=https%3A%2F%2Fv2.jacky.wtf%2F
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@gRegorLove ↩️ I would expect the PW page to collect webmentions for all translations then, unless there's a bug. Please let me know if you run into issues and I'll work on improving it! (twitter.com/_/status/1270432974798942208)
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jacky tbh I _finally_ understand why people like Gatsby
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jacky https://www.gatsbyjs.org/docs/using-gatsby-without-graphql/
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chrisaldrich What is a webhook?
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Loqi A webhook is a mechanism for notifying a server about updates to some content in realtime by making an HTTP request https://indieweb.org/webhook
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@isellsoap ↩️ Thanks, will do. Just getting slowly and steadily into the Webmention game (and loving it so far). (twitter.com/_/status/1270455924289912834)
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