#dev 2020-06-11

2020-06-11 UTC
geoffo, maxwelljoslyn, [chrisaldrich], beko and mynick1 joined the channel
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mynick1 hi
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nekr0z [Paulo_Pinto]: RSS full text has nothing to do with mf2 markup. It does put full-text entries in RSS feed (instead of summaries, which is the default), but it there is no mf2 markup in the full-text, it doesn't help to indiewebify.
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nekr0z [Paulo_Pinto] In short, LoveIt doesn't currently support IndieWeb. I had to hack it quite a bit to get it on my site with the mf2 I need. The problem is, the IndieWeb-related hacking I did on LoveIt I did for my site to scratch my own itch. I'd love to share it and merge back to LoveIt, but I'm not yet ready for the hassle of cleaning up and making my hack-ons suitable for generic use.
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[Paulo_Pinto] @nekr0z thanks. That pretty much answers my question. I have to try the automation of the curl command. Learning every day a little bit more.
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nekr0z [Paulo_Pinto]: the automation is another question, but I would make sure your posts are properly marked-up as h-entries first. I recomment Amit Gavande's awesome writeup: https://www.amitgawande.com/indiewebify-hugo-website/ - it's still very relevant.
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Loqi [Amit Gawande] IndieWebify Your Hugo Website
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nekr0z Also, from my own experience of moving my IndieWeb site to Hugo, re automation, too: https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/posts/2020/un-known/ - it says hyde-hyde for the theme there, but I moved to LoveIt since
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Loqi [Evgeny Kuznetsov] To the Un-Known!
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[Paulo_Pinto] @nekr0z yes, my posta are marked as h-entries. I read Amit’s post and others about the subject. I changed my layout default files to include them and also to display Webmentions. All I need now is to run a command line within my html code to send my webmentions. I will read what you suggest and keep learning about it as, I am not a tech guy, although I’d like to become one 😀 thanks for your help
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nekr0z Yes, you need something "external" to your HTML (either in the form of curl or more sophisticated things) to send the webmentions, because the HTML page itself sends nothing, unfortunately
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[Paulo_Pinto] I will read your post and try to learn from it. I actually edit my site with Atom and the I commit my changes to github. Then Netlify deploys it. I tried webmention.app Webhook on Netlify but with RSS feed which doesn’t work as we’ve talked before. Maybe is time for another more friendly approach.
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[Paulo_Pinto] I think I’m trying to make steps longer than my legs 😀
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nekr0z [Paulo_Pinto]: Whatever works for you, and good luck! If I can give one piece of unsolicited advice, though, that would be: if something IndieWeb-related doesn't work, the best thing to do is to try and understand why exactly it doesn't work in your case. This, in turn, helps you understand whether you should fix something you did wrong, or it's better to try another approach alltogether. The "it doesn't work on my site
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nekr0z and I don't understand why" condition is the worst.
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jacky nekr0z++
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Loqi nekr0z has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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nekr0z Learned it the hard way, too. Spent a week's worth of nights to try and fix my WebSub pinger implementation before figuring out that a) there was a bug (now fixed) in websub.rocks and b) superfeedr doesn't support https feeds anyway. ;-D
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swentel what do you mean with not supporting https feeds?
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jacky I was about to ask; superfeedr supports my site
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jacky that also reminds me; would it make sense to have a superfeedr like instance solely for the IndieWeb?
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jacky similar to how we have http://stream.indieweb.org
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nekr0z Mine is https-only (i.e. no pure http at all), and I have never been able to make superfeedr register anything on my feeds. I later found out there was an open issue about that somewhere, and gave up. Maybe they fixed it since, I shoud check.
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jacky nekr0z: you don't do HTTP -> HTTPS upgrades on requests?
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swentel jacky, I guess we should https://switchboard.p3k.io/ then no ? :)
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swentel *use
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jacky true but I'm just leaning for something not explicitly branded as a SPOA :)
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swentel makes sense
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nekr0z jacky: I'm not sure. I mean, my Apache does redirect all HTTP to HTTPS, but I don't know whether it is a proper way to do things.
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jacky oh that's _the_ way (with a hard 302)
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nekr0z RewriteCond %{HTTPS} !on
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nekr0z is what I do. Should be 302?
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nekr0z RewriteRule ^(.*)$ https://%{HTTP_HOST}%{REQUEST_URI} [L,R=301,NE]
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jacky tbh for server apps, it doesn't matter (really); because sane software will follow the redirect
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[Paulo_Pinto] @nekr0z I will follow your advice. Better do less and understand it than mess up with things with a trial and error approach. I appreciate your time.
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nekr0z jacky: I was under impression that 301 was "moved forever, will not ever be back here again" and 302 was "is over there for now, but things may change yet", which is why I did 301. See, I'm not too versed in all things web either, I teach medicine for living, go figure...
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swentel hehe, that's ok
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swentel but it's the other way around, 302 is temporarily, 301 is permanent
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jacky ah I mess that up all of the time lol
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jacky my fault
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swentel yeah, tbh, I always have to look it up myself too
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nekr0z swentel: that's what I said, 301 forever, 302 temp, right? So 301 is the way to go?
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swentel oh, right, crap, read that wrong, sorry :/
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swentel needs more coffee
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swentel yes, 301 should be good
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nekr0z So, I have 301 for HTTP -> HTTPS (piece of .htaccess several answers above). I accurately ping superfeedr on every feed update, I get a 204 from them, which is supposedly a good thing, but I have never seen any trace of anything in my superfeedr console.
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[LewisCowles] did I read https://evgenykuznetsov.org/en/posts/2020/un-known/ right that they moved from known because support they were going to receive for free wouldn't come fast enough? Seems like just buy a subscription for a managed-hosting would be some solution no?
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Loqi [Evgeny Kuznetsov] To the Un-Known!
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nekr0z Not exactly, no. I'm the author of that, and I must clarify: first, I have been a paying subscriber for as long as hosting solution existed.
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jacky interesting bit about the sending notifications being challenging
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jacky I'm still working on my webmention service and I want that to be as easy as possible
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nekr0z Second: my frustration with Known had more to do with the fact that there was no feasible way for me to help things move faster than with the fact that they were slow in the first place
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[LewisCowles] thanks for the clarification nekr0z++
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Loqi nekr0z has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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nekr0z [LewisCowles]: You might have just temted me to update the first part of that post. It wasn't intended to convey "Known bad, Hugo good, everybody go Hugo", but rather "Known didn't work out for me, here's why, if you think it's not working out for you for similar reasons, well, here's how I did it, but YMMV". Looks like I could have done a better job of conveying that. ;)
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[LewisCowles] It might just be how I read it
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nekr0z jacky: webmention.app? I'm trying to remember why I didn't consider it, there must have been a reason, because I definitely saw it while I was researching.
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[LewisCowles] I also didn't take it to influence my opinion of known.
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jacky oh I don't work on that, I'm making lighthouse
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jacky I forget who builds webmention.app
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jacky what is webmention.app
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for mentions and conversations across the web, a powerful building block that is used for a growing federated network of comments, likes, reposts, and other rich interactions across the decentralized social web https://indieweb.org/webmention.app
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jacky Remy Sharp!
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nekr0z Hmm, lighthouse I wasn't even aware of up until today (maybe because it's new). It definitely looks like I would have tried using it before inventing my own toolchain.
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nekr0z jacky++
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Loqi jacky has 21 karma in this channel over the last year (88 in all channels)
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jacky I should have it ready for people to use by early July
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Loqi +1
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Well done - #indieweb folks are big fans of eleventy. Adding support for indieweb protocols like webmention and websub could be a supplement to this (twitter.com/_/status/1271081438063013888)
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@wikipediachain ↩️ Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language > XProc > VoiceXML > IndieAuth > XHTML+SMIL > Internationalization Tag Set > Web storage > Font family (HTML) > WebGL > PHP > Moodle > Instructure > IOS > List of mobile app distribution platforms > Multimedia Messaging Service > 4G (twitter.com/_/status/1271107141718487040)
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gRegorLove That's a new one for me. I got csrf_detected error from indieauth.com when signing in to indiebookclub with GitHub
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gRegorLove Ah, error is actually from GitHub? "The authentication provider replied with an error: csrf_detected
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gRegorLove "
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gRegorLove Tried again and it worked :shrug:
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aaronpk yeah i haven't figured out why that happens sometimes
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jacky csrf--
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Loqi csrf has -1 karma over the last year
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gRegorLove what is csrf
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Loqi CSRF or Cross-Site Request Forgery is an attack that OAuth and IndieAuth clients (relying parties) need to be aware of, wherein victims unknowingly follow a link to a relying party callback URL prepared by an attacker https://indieweb.org/CSRF
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jacky tests++
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Loqi tests has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (17 in all channels)
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jacky I'm torn between giving Webmention endpoints a bit more power (like for querying a list of webmentions) and doing something like webmention.io and giving it a special API endpoint
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jacky the benefit (barely) of the former is that it'd be an "extension" (I was thinking of something like the `q=` approach)
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jacky but having another endpoint makes it less risky for breakage
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aaronpk interesting, I hadn't considered extending the webmention endpoint itself for that
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jacky I only thought of it because I also want to do something with micropub to configure my site (like to change endpoints for my site via my endpoint)
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jacky ^ that's how I'd do a one-click setup for Lighthouse, Fortress or Lwa
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sknebel I guess it'd mean you'd not need another mechanism to configure the api endpoint or another rel="" to find it?
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jacky this puts a lot of power in micropub but also overloads it (imo but it's okay)
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sknebel but still needs a lot of additional bits, especially if its supposed to do things that need auth. hm
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jacky tbh I saw it being doable by adding another scope 'configure' and allowing that to use something like `q=configure`
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sknebel I meant for the wm endpoint, micropub has more of that already defined
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jacky AH okay yeah
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jacky yeah tbh despite me liking it in the endpoints, I'd end up pushing it towards a separate endpoint
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aaronpk brainstorming some other actions that might want to be done at some sort of webmention management API...
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aaronpk deleting a comment, flagging as spam
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jacky moderation flag setting is one
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jacky yup
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aaronpk those would be POST requests, so that starts to get kind of weird to overload the webmention endpoint like that
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jacky I have an option to 'reparse' webmentions
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jacky yup :(
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ No. It's a clever blockquote/citation embedding tool. Your platform/CMS/other can use the URL that's in the citation of the source to send webmentions on your behalf though. https://boffosocko.com/2020/06/11/55772133/ (twitter.com/_/status/1271168690176712704)
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[tantek] anyone have experience with installing/running https://fairapps.net/ things?
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[tantek] Not quite sure how to capture it on the wiki, maybe in /green_computing ? Hoping for thoughts / feedback from someone else here who has heard of them or tried out their stuff
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jacky will check