#dev 2020-09-24

2020-09-24 UTC
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[tb] I successfully ported my indieauth_discovery library to node.js for my micropub client!
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[tb] https://github.com/craftyphotons/stilus/tree/feature/indieauth
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[tb] And also implemented the IndieAuth auth grant flow with PKCE alongside it 😄
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aaronpk [tb]++
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Loqi [tb] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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aaronpk that reminds me, now that my talk is done, i need to update the spec to reflect our indieauth session and match what i said in the talk :)
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[tb] I gotta get that PR merged into omniauth-indieauth as well so I can add PKCE/token acquisition to it in a followon
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GWG aaronpk: I hate to ask, but how is IndieAuth 1.1 doing?
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@yashints Good bye comments, hellow web mentions #webdev #webmentions https://dev.to/dailydevtips1/goodbye-comments-welcome-webmentions-499g (twitter.com/_/status/1308920429965463554)
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aaronpk was focusing on getting this talk done
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aaronpk spec updates are next on my list
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GWG aaronpk: Did you get the link up for that? I was interested to watch it?
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aaronpk i did!
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GWG I'll check your site. I've been juggling things, but I just finished something, so next is fixing an IndieAuth WordPress issue, which is why I asked
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GWG I'm taking off October 2-October 11 for no special reason, so maybe I'll get some things done.
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aaronpk oops i messed up something with saving that post, the link should work now (again)
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2020/09/22/25/activitypub-oauth-2-1
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aaronpk unlisted for now
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] ActivityPub and OAuth 2.1
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GWG Hmm...didn't know Firefox had PIP mode
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GWG Fun
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@MyLewdDrawings This tool forever but I am happy it is done. This is part of a collaboration I did with @Questathana They are writing a story that should be ready some time in November.If you like giantess and world destruction I feel like you would like their stuff.#Sizeplay #Giantess #microsub (twitter.com/_/status/1308936021753704449)
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timotimo haha, that's a different kind of "microsub", eh?
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timotimo i wasn't aware there's a microsub, i assume it's not that closely related to micropub? or does the whole thing have a micropub/sub thing?
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aaronpk what is microsub?
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Loqi Microsub provides a standardized way for reader apps to interact with feeds https://indieweb.org/microsub
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aaronpk huh that's actually not the best definition
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lahacker /quit
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@GeekNewsBot 댓글은 가고 Webmentions가 온다 https://j.mp/332hG65 W3C 권고안(Recommentation) 단계인 표준 - 블로그의 Pingback 과 마찬가지로 해당 글에 대해서 다른 곳에서 링크를 올리거나 언급했음을 알려주는 기능 - 데이터를 포함해서 노티가 가능 - Like, Retweet, Reply 등을 하나의 정보 구... (twitter.com/_/status/1308981244772986883)
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk, and others... I cleaned up that definition of microsub quite a bit and concatenated the opening paragraphs which were a bit redundant. Reviews for accuracy and conciseness, etc. are welcomed.
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aaronpk [chrisaldrich]++ that's really good!
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Loqi [chrisaldrich] has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (72 in all channels)
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@lunamoth ↩️ http://Webmention.io http://j.mp/1GYT7qK Bridgy https://bit.ly/3mM9JcX (twitter.com/_/status/1309044294074929158)
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@mytory 댓글은 가고 Webmentions가 온다 | GeekNews https://news.hada.io/topic?id=2902 정말? (twitter.com/_/status/1309055692863688706)
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@purcaholic Goodbye comments, welcome Webmentions. (via https://dev.to/dailydevtips1/goodbye-comments-welcome-webmentions-499g) #webmentions #webdevelopment #w3c (twitter.com/_/status/1309101645796716546)
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petermolnar so re: RSS size, this is the case where time, imo, is not a good measure.
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petermolnar If someone new subscribes, you still need to show something, so last X posts makes complete sense.
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petermolnar I remember [tantek] needing to move to a thin feed - one without content - because it was eating up so much bandwidth with the fat one.
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petermolnar so that's also a factor.
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Zegnat Sure, I think it is sensible to have some max number of entries based on file size. I am just not sure if optimising for size is *always* the right thing to do when you look at the use-case of most feeds.
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Zegnat Most feeds get polled by their subscribers on a regular schedule. And the subscriber would often expect to find all the posts that are new since the last time it checked in there.
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Zegnat So I would filter first by time, but have a maximum filesize (which is probably equal to some estimated maximum number of entries), as well as a minimum number of entries to fill out the feed.
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Zegnat ... does that make sense? (I am literally just on IRC in between work meetings so brain may be slightly fizzed)
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petermolnar oh, yes. that makes sense that way. minimum by number, maximum by time.
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[James_Gallaghe] That makes sense.
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[James_Gallaghe] I like that idea. I think the easiest way to do it is just to show the few most recent posts because feeds are polled on a regular cadence and people expect to see the posts they have recently collected.
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[James_Gallaghe] I don’t want to over-complicate things too much 🙂
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[James_Gallaghe] Should I document a bit of this on the wiki?
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jeremycherfas I suppose if you were really keen you could analyse your logs to see how often readers are actually polling your feed and make that the basis for your feed.
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[James_Gallaghe] I don’t delve into my server logs as a matter of principle. It’s part of my public commitment to privacy.
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[James_Gallaghe] Technically, I could use a command like grep to find out but I feel like I’d be cheating myself 😄
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jeremycherfas I'm not saying you should, only that you could. I quite like seeing what (not who) has been sniffing around.
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[James_Gallaghe] Yeah. It’s an interesting idea. Now I feel tempted to take a peek…
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[James_Gallaghe] I’ll resist the temptation.
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@mikehale Goodbye comments, welcome Webmentions https://mkhl.me/302uFTm (twitter.com/_/status/1309170734732840962)
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GWG lahacker prompted a great salmention and vouch discussion
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GWG last night at HWC
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GWG I was commenting on my theory why we have limited implementation
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jacky on the topic of feeds
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jacky I haven't made a serious push to my site because of them
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jacky I removed everything but hfeeds b/c I didn't want to have feed building logic
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jacky but it seems kinda 'hard' to avoid if I want people to subscribe to stuff
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[jgmac1106] and I think matter of how prolific and public one wants to be, once you have h-feeds though you can have all the feeds with Granary..but I know you want to use your tools
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[jgmac1106] on my page I have an h-feed with three articles and the fourth article is an h-entry pointing to my archives
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[jgmac1106] I broke this when I accidentally messed up and mad may a directory and not a page....and somehow messed up my htaccess page so I can't display a directory
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[jgmac1106] not knowing things makes this stuff hard, I have so many unlisted pages becuase after writing the last thing I want to manually do is route the article to two more places
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[jgmac1106] I do like the feed discovery model of WP (even if the ontological difference between category and tag makes little sense when you dig into how it works)
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lahacker GWG my biggest takeaway is this new universe of possibilities in salmentioning more than just notes in replies to notes for threaded commenting
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[jgmac1106] jacky my podcasts too, more than my aritcles I wanna automate that routing and feeds...but Apple doesn't allow granary feeds so I guess I don't really have a podcast
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lahacker rather a like of a comment of a review of a post
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[jgmac1106] used to think it just meant rss and audio file
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lahacker GWG curious what you would consider the crux of your theory is; i remember several points being discussed, curious what you saw; and I think these more advanced features will be well served by a visual walkthrough
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[jgmac1106] but for Android fans....granary mf2 to acceptable rss works very well.
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lahacker speaking of which, can i have a link to your IW in WP in 20 minutes video?
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GWG lahacker: I did it a few times over the last two years... I think at the last Summit....
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GWG lahacker: Maybe outlining some of the ones I mentioned might get more interest
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lahacker whichever you think's your best attempt
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[jgmac1106] I have a video series but it is specific to SemPress and more for user rather than dev audience
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GWG My example was Alice has a page for her fiction novel. Bob writes a review of it. Carol comments on Bob's review, and Alice wants to display that nested under her display of Bob's response on her book page
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[snarfed] [jgmac1106] remind me about “Apple doesn’t allow granary feeds”? sorry, i’ve probably asked about this before 😁
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jacky lahacker: threaded commenting is something I _really_ want
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lahacker jgmac1106 i could probably benefit from seeing it from that angle
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jacky like tbh I want to make it something more client-side to start with
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jacky I can send info from my server about the incoming mentions and comments and see if any of them have an "incomplete" h-cite (like if they quote the text but not the beginning and end parts - lazy match)
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jacky the harder part then would be doing proper highlighting of text and allowing that to be dynamically inserted like footnotes
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lahacker jacky not sure what you're describing there but it sounds like it's specific to notes in reply to notes
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jacky in relation to salmentions
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jacky oh but you were saying going beyond threaded comments
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lahacker which complicates things a bit and from a framework perspective i'm grappling with how exactly to deal with it reasonably
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lahacker eg. i want the user of the framework to be able to "accept webmentions" and rather simply template out precisely what GWG describes above with Alice, Bob and Carol
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lahacker which may not require much more work at all, just wrapping my head around it so that i can write some sound salmention code
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lahacker i feel like there may be some undocumented territory in the space
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[jgmac1106] you use Google App Services for something it is on the forbidden list
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[jgmac1106] I think I filed an issue...too busy to submit a feed now to get the exact error.
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GWG lahacker: The Salmention problem is there are a lot of implementation details we could suggest to help people. The spec is simple.
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[jgmac1106] lahacker I haven't done anything micropub yet in the series http://tech-4-teens.club/sempress-tutorial/ and on one video I displayed wrong window and need to fix
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[jgmac1106] camp is starting up again so I will be updating starting with broken wildcard (thus no micropub stuff yet)
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lahacker ah yes GWG you put it well; i assume you'd say the same about Vouch
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lahacker jgmac1106 cool i'll check them out; i like the short format
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GWG Yes, basically... implementation advice is what would help everyone..
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GWG Blog posts about how you built it, etc
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[schmarty] i think vouch is missing a lot more than implementation advice
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[schmarty] vouch is underspecified from a user experience perspective
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aaronpk vouch, like many specs, describes a small piece of the puzzle, just enough for interop
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[schmarty] aaronpk: yep, it's just a protocol, but it's not a _feature_
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[schmarty] and i think that's a huge blocker for adoption
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aaronpk right, nobody has actually described the user feature in enough detail to build
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Zegnat Or build enough of it to describe its workings. I think that statement might go both ways
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aaronpk true
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lahacker vouch is there for when strangers are coming to your post to discuss *while you aren't there actively accepting incoming webmentions*; salmentions, eg. threaded discussion, serves to increase the volume of mentions and probably the likelihood of that happening.. synergy! :)
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[pfefferle] [jgmac1106]++ this is awesome!
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Loqi [jgmac1106] has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (73 in all channels)
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GWG Hi, [pfefferle]. Always nice to see you
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GWG aaronpk, [schmarty]: In full agreement... but someone documenting their experience in thinking about building it might kickstart that
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[jgmac1106] thx [pfefferle] SemPress really the only out of box solution I can offer students so it works well. I do luck out that softalicous allows you to create a plugin group
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sknebel [snarfed]: Apple has a whitelist of CAs they accept for podcast feeds, and AppEngine pages use one that isnt on there
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[snarfed] sknebel: ahhhh yeah that’s Google’s CA. surprisingly draconian of Apple. (or i guess not so surprising)
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[snarfed] filed https://github.com/snarfed/granary/issues/221
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Loqi [snarfed] #221 RSS feeds don't work with iTunes because Apple doesn't accept Google's SSL certs
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sknebel I wonder if a workaround subdomain behind free cloudflare or sth like that might help
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sknebel still very dumb by Apple
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aaronpk I can't believe they still haven't fixed that
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ For my backlinks I'm using the W3C Webmention spec which works using the Webmention plugin. This allows me to cross link my own posts to look like comments or replies, and allows others to ping me and interact with my public posts. #HeyPresstoConf20 https://boffosocko.com/2020/09/24/55777557/ (twitter.com/_/status/1309216657001254912)
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maxwelljoslyn
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maxwelljoslyn Next up on my micropub server implementation is the media endpoint. Can someone help me understand why the new file's URL returned by the media endpoint should be semirandom/unguessable? what if I just want all my images to live in /static/*.jpg (for instance)?
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aaronpk it's up to you, but generally using sequential filenames or something predictable means someone can scan your site for images
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maxwelljoslyn and that's not good?
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aaronpk if you don't care if someone might find an image you haven't actually used in a post, that's fine
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aaronpk but for example i upload random crap to my media endpoint that doesn't necessarily make it into a post for whatever reason, like i change my mind before posting and replace the photo with something else
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maxwelljoslyn Oh, got it! Thanks
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[snarfed] not to mention private posts etc
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maxwelljoslyn Hmm. in that case aaronpk, I see some of your recent photos are paths like aaron.pk/1240x0/yyyy/mm/dd/number/photo.jpg -- so are you renaming photos on the backend from "unpredictable" to "predictable" once they're used in a post?
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aaronpk yeah my media endpoint is just a temporary holding place
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aaronpk my website copies the file into its own storage when the post is created
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aaronpk that /yyyy/mm/dd/number is the folder on disk where the post is stored. the filename of the image is "photo.jpg" in that folder
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maxwelljoslyn Cool, thanks! Now I understand the general strategy for setting up the endpoint
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aaronpk you are, of course, welcome to treat your media endpoint as the permanent storage for your media as well. up to you
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maxwelljoslyn I'll start out with it going to permanent storage, and see what my usage looks like :)
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@kixiQu ↩️ https://webmentions.neocities.org/how_do.html this is the link itself. it has been observed that the layout doesn't make that link obvious. while I could solve this by making it more normal-blog, i will probably attempt to solve with More Emoji (twitter.com/_/status/1309268708687147008)
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@hasdid #Frontend #Automated | Goodbye Comments, Welcome Webmentions https://frontendfoc.us/link/95633/44fac6a747 (twitter.com/_/status/1309278260447129606)