#dev 2021-02-20

2021-02-20 UTC
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mblaney [snarfed] ha I wasn't logged in sorry! but I have now and still seeing initial poll did not succeed
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[snarfed] mblaney ok! i’ll look
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[snarfed] mblaney ah, bridgy needs the same web site in your FB profile that you IndieAuth with. looks like you authed with mblaney.xyz, and your FB profile has unicyclic.com
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[snarfed] i’ll improve the error message
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mblaney ah forgot to update my domain on facebook. done and fixed, thanks!
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mblaney I've been meaning to take a look at switching facebook-atom to mbasic domain, have you looked at that at all?
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[snarfed] yes! already done
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mblaney awesome! I'm getting a 429 at the moment but will have a look at it later
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mblaney looks like I've been fetching content from facebook-atom but the html structure is different on mbasic
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mblaney so I need to update my own rules about where to pull the content from
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@fluffy ↩️ The comments on my comic are probably the first thing I stop caring about, especially since most of my interactions come in the form of Webmentions these days anyway. (twitter.com/_/status/1362957674464223240)
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sebsel nice
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Loqi sebsel: [tantek] left you a message 8 hours, 54 minutes ago: fix is here if you want to take a minute to review it: https://github.com/tantek/cassis/pull/35
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sebsel I did have a look at it :)
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@frankmeeuwsen ↩️ Dat gebeurt via Webmentions met een koppeling via https://brid.gy/. Ik heb het deel met Webmentions eens beschreven, het Bridgy stuk nog niet. https://diggingthedigital.com/wordpress-en-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1363110225369309185)
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@frankmeeuwsen ↩️ Dat gebeurt via Webmentions met een koppeling via https://brid.gy/. Ik heb het deel met Webmentions eens beschreven, het Bridgy stuk nog niet. https://diggingthedigital.com/wordpress-en-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1363110225369309185)
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sebsel lol, tweet mentions webmentions twice, so we got it twice?
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@apple_observer Testing, testing, 1.2.3. (#webmention #indieweb #openweb): https://numericcitizen.micro.blog/2021/02/20/testing-testing-webmention.html (twitter.com/_/status/1363118698962161672)
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[snarfed] [fluffy] saw your bridgy issue. sorry for the trouble!
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[snarfed] bridgy has supported webmention discovery via header pretty much forever. the issue you’re seeing is that it requires a 2xx response, so it’s giving up on your 401.
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[snarfed] aaronpk i looked through the spec a bit but couldn’t tell whether endpoint discovery should still succeed on non-2xx response. do you know?
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[snarfed] https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#sender-discovers-receiver-webmention-endpoint
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sknebel no spec justification, but I'd argue that if the receiver chooses to link an endpoint from a 4xx page, they have a reason to mean that
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aaronpk Yeah interesting that we didn't think to mention it in the spec specifically
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aaronpk but I don't see any reason discovery should be ignored on a 4xx response like sknebel said
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[snarfed] i guess yeah. i just expect that happens a lot right now, and if i start attempting them all, 99% of those attempts will also fail
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sknebel (I guess "login required", request-origin-dependent "blocked for legal reasons", ... are cases were a human might very well see a post, reply to it, but their WM sender then might get an error page)
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sknebel I guess that's something you could collect numbers on for a bit?
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[snarfed] yeah. and the numbers probably still don’t matter, i should just make all those attempts anyway
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[snarfed] whee
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aaronpk Whoa I got a webmention from Facebook (I assume via bridgy) but I haven't set up bridgy for Facebook yet
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aaronpk unless the extension auto updated and it just started working automatically
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[snarfed] kind of the latter
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[snarfed] the extension is dumb and the server does all the work, deliberate design choice so i could update easier. which i did just now 😎
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[snarfed] specifically updated scraping to handle life event posts like yours a bit better
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aaronpk aha
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[snarfed] and you did set it up, right? ie you installed the extension and indieauthed
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aaronpk only for instagram
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[snarfed] you don’t have to do anything per-silo to set it up, just indieauth once
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aaronpk aha
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[snarfed] but yeah also i assume the extension itself auto-updated
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aaronpk hm these webmentions look weird in my reader
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aaronpk they are in-reply-to the facebook URL
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aaronpk rather than my post
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[snarfed] guess i should let people opt into or out of silos
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[snarfed] they’re in reply to both, right?
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aaronpk possibly...? I can't find the bridgy link for it because of how it works on my end
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aaronpk oh you know what, i think it might be just a mention of my home page
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[snarfed] ah right, mentions of a few of your URLs
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[snarfed] https://brid.gy/comment/facebook/11500459/10105169616354296/10105169616354296_10105169621109766
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Loqi [Justin C. Houk] I respect you choice.
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aaronpk argh auto redirect 😂
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aaronpk okay yeah i'm surprised that's just an @-mention of my home page
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aaronpk that story.php link doesn't seem to work on facebook either
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[snarfed] sigh yeah that life event post type still isn’t handled ideally
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aaronpk ah right i didn't post that to my website at all, so there's no post of mine to reply to
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[snarfed] why surprised at the mention though? it’s in the text, right?
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[snarfed] ah yeah there’s no OPD then, so just the text URLs
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aaronpk yep so that's as expected
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aaronpk i just haven't used facebook in so long i forgot what i did with that post
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[snarfed] yeah that’s what i’ve seen w/most of the browser extension users so far 😆
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Loqi sebsel has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (9 in all channels)
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[tantek] sebsel++ thanks for the review and test. merged
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[fluffy] [snarfed] ah, makes sense. But mentions to 401s will be very important for supporting private posts in general. Could there be an exception for that? For that matter I feel like any error page which declares an endpoint should still be consisted a valid target.
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[fluffy] Like consider a mention to a page that returns an error due to a transitory problem
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[fluffy] Wouldn’t want that mention to be lost forever!
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jacky aaronpk: I'm getting a 502 on indielogin
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jacky wow looking at the pingback spec (https://hixie.ch/specs/pingback/pingback) versus webmention one and I'm kinda surprised it took off lol
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jacky not to talk ill of them but it looks more complicated than I expected
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jacky like the reinvention of status codes kinda made this more than needed
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jacky kinda interesting in implementing it on my site but at the same time, nah
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jacky also fixed the URL thing re: streams on my site
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jacky kinda wish there was a tool to determine this: http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-h-card-parsing
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jacky like rep-hcard.indieweb.org or something
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aaronpk dammit thanks jacky
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aaronpk i've gotta figure out why fpm just randomly stops working
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sknebel does it crash and not get properly restarted, or does it "hang" in some way?
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aaronpk when there's the "bad gateway" error and i look at the process list, all the fpm processes are still running
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sknebel seems like there is a "slowlog" option for php-fpm that might help if it gets stuck in a request: https://robertbasic.com/blog/php-fpm-slow-log/
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[snarfed] jacky: https://sturdy-backbone.glitch.me/ is probably close
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[tantek] katherine++ https://mobile.twitter.com/brb_irl/status/1363228294376804353
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Loqi katherine has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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@brb_irl don’t EVER make me use javascript (twitter.com/_/status/1363228294376804353)
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jacky [snarfed]: yeah but not close enough
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jacky I wanted to check if my h-card on my site is 'valid' per the representative h-card chec
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jacky *check
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jacky but it doesn't seem to fly (mainly b/c fed.brid.gy can't find it so I think it's me)
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jacky random: does the exposure of one's rel-me links in one's h-card help with anything?
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jacky like I can see the rel-me auth angle
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jacky but I'm curious if there's anything else it helps with
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jacky outside of profile discovery
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jacky what is rel=me
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Loqi Using rel=me on a hyperlink indicates that its destination represents the same person or entity as the current page, which is a key building-block of web-sign-in and IndieAuth https://indieweb.org/rel-me
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[KevinMarks] it helps with identity consolidation
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[KevinMarks] http://www.kevinmarks.com/distributed-verify.html
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jacky right I think that's what I was addressing w.r.t rel-me auth
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[KevinMarks] mastodon uses it for that too
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jacky but I don't see anything else it's handy for
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Loqi Distributed Verification 2016-09-22
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[KevinMarks] so you can have a green tick by your link if it links back
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jacky wow random: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-discussion
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jacky this could be the thing I was looking for re: linking to a feed that's like just the Webmentions of a particular post 👀
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jacky but yeah, I kinda don't see the extra value-add _just yet_
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[KevinMarks] well, ages ago bradfitz built a crawler for all the xfn values, so you could query it for related accounts and friend links etc too, but it got deprecated
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jacky but what does finding 'related' accounts actually do?
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jacky like it points to a silo, sure
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jacky but like what from that is actually useful?
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[KevinMarks] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabCylbapuM
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[snarfed] jacky: it’s discovery
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[snarfed] https://indieweb.org/discovery
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[snarfed] something we still largely haven’t cracked in the indieweb
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jacky hm
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jacky I don't think it's immediately clicking for me
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jacky I'll read that page over
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[KevinMarks] it made more obvious sense when we tended to have multiple accounts on different sites rather than a couple of giant silos
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jacky that's still kinda the case now
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jacky spotify, xbox, instagram, facebook, twitter, (more niche: last.fm, trakt), tiktok etc
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[KevinMarks] so you'd have photos on flickr and short notes on twitter and a blog and music plays on last fm and so on, and they did actually use the rel=me links
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[KevinMarks] right, but they have all stopped being curlable now
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jacky fair yeah
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[KevinMarks] if you want a longer video, here's me and brad getting more into the weeds on it when it was still a thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg-FVDmgyP0
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[KevinMarks] plus a lot of detail on how it actually needs some messy code to canoniclize the links
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btrem Is there a place to get demo webmentions json to test rendering? What I see on webmentions.io is json for a single url, but the code I borrowed from sia.codes gets webmentions for a site and filters, and it's screwing up, and I really need test data.