#dev 2021-04-19
2021-04-19 UTC
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[tantek] welp I'm going to have deal with this crap this week: https://twitter.com/harryhalpin/status/1383930894910558220 (quote tweet / thread)
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@harryhalpin This is shameful behavior by @linuxfoundation - pumping scammy #W3C DID standards is more of a desperate cry for help that shows one has no understanding of privacy and security. Fascism can use "open source" too. https://twitter.com/milessuter/status/1383880617587208192 (twitter.com/_/status/1383930894910558220)
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Loqi 418 is a little teapot, short and stout https://indieweb.org/418
# Loqi The Internet Identity Workshop is a workshop held twice a year that focuses on identity issues where several IndieWeb related sessions have been held over the years https://indieweb.org/IIW
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[Joshua_Sim] what is Sele?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Sele" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Sele is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [Joshua_Sim] awesome
# [Joshua_Sim] open sourced?
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jacky https://git.jacky.wtf/indieweb/sele for now but when it's all polished up, I'll sync it to GitHub and GitLab
# [Joshua_Sim] cool will have a look
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[aciccarello] [aaronpk] Doesn't instagram just tweet a link to the instagram post?
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Ruxton aciccarello[m] aaronpk - yep, only links https://twitter.com/ruxton/status/1384038516120641537
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# Ruxton jacky: your git page has a link to https://black.af/projects/sele but that's just timing out
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# [girrodocus] Hi all. I'm new to all of this (indieweb, web development, servers, etc etc), except for a few months of Python experience which might not be particularly relevant.
# [girrodocus] I have a domain name and I have a few ideas for where I'd like to get to as my knowledge develops. But right now I'm stuck knowing what to do next. I don't have any hosting, however a friend has suggested I try signing up for a VPS. I've had a quick look on the Yunohost, Cloudron, and Contabo sites but I don't really know what I'm looking at. Could anyone suggest a way forward for me?
# [girrodocus] I'm particularly keen to avoid any security trouble as I don't have any sysadmin experience. I'm very open to learning, but it will have to be beginner-friendly.
# [girrodocus] 1. domain name points to my personal site
# [girrodocus] Where I'd ultimately like to get to would be:
# [girrodocus] 2. personal site is some kind of blog/wiki hybrid in the mode of a 'digital garden' (birdirectional links, etc)
# [girrodocus] 3. site is fairly easy to update (including from iphone)
# [girrodocus] 4. in time, greater integration with indieweb using various plugins, libraries etc.
# [girrodocus] Inspriration:
# [girrodocus] https://doubleloop.net/
# [girrodocus] www.jvt.me
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jeremycherfas Hi girrodocus. Do you have any thoughts as to whether you would prefer a dynamic or a static site?
# jeremycherfas Oops. Hi [girrodocus] ^^^
# [girrodocus] Right now I'm unclear on the differences. I believe a static site requires you to regenerate the site after each change (e.g. editing a post). This is similar to what I'm been learning with the Python library Flask. This seems to have the drawback of needing to regenerate the whole site, but perhaps have the advantage of some simplicity? As far as I understand it, Wordpress would be dynamic rather than static?
# [girrodocus] Eventually I'd like the site to become the my replacement/primary for all other social media sites, apps like Evernote, and perhaps eventually have some other tools I could use such as an RSS reader, Etherpad etc. Not sure how important that last part would be though.
# [girrodocus] It also wouldn't be a bad thing if I aimed to learn some things that might be useful in a tech job in future. So learning wordpress might be more valuable that some obscure thing. Although I do want to be part of the indieweb (which is relatively obscure).
# [girrodocus] Jeez sorry for the spammy post. I'm using slack but I've just looked at https://chat.indieweb.org/ and every new line comes in as a new message. I'll be more considerate from now.
# jeremycherfas Not a problem. Yes, you are right, WordPress is more dynamic. There are some fully-function /Wordpress themes, but they do require plugins. And links to a lot of static site generators at https://indieweb.org/static_site_generator
# jeremycherfas There is a whole channel here for #indieweb-wordpress
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# jeremycherfas One of the simplest, turnkey operations is /micro.blog
# [girrodocus] Thanks. I did have a look at micro.blog a while back but I think I'd find that constraining in a similar way to the big social media services. I'm doing some research in a another window right now - it's all quite overwhelming!
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[Murray] Hi [girrodocus] 👋 You asked about hosting on the main channel, if you're looking at WordPress (which is probably the most mature ecosystem in terms of dynamic content + IndieWeb libraries) then a VPS may be overkill, particularly if you're not experienced with web servers and back-end technologies. A managed WordPress host may be a simpler option. I'm sure the Wiki has a bunch of hosting suggestions, but I personally use Krystal
# [Murray] (https://krystal.uk/wordpress-hosting) and find their customer support excellent. The fully managed WordPress stuff is a touch expensive imo, and I personally haven't used that, but I have run WordPress on their standard web hosting and it worked fine (you just get less one-click setup and more maintenance).
# [Murray] Alternatively, if you want to get something up and running quickly and are happy to get to the dynamic content part in the future, services like Netlify have drag'n'drop hosting options for free. It doesn't sound like that's a good fit for you, but I thought I'd throw it out there just in case 😄
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[KevinMarks] If you want a python based indieweb site, have a look at fluffy's publ https://github.com/PlaidWeb/Publ
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# [snarfed] [girrodocus] welcome! good tips from everyone so far. definitely also check out https://indieweb.org/web_hosting , lots more recommendations there
# [snarfed] in general i’d avoid a VPS unless you really want (and have a good reason) to manage an entire server and OS. even most developers here often use shared hosting, or serverless for apps, instead of a full VPS, which is usually overkill and too much of a maintenance burden and security liability, as you mentioned
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# Loqi admin tax is all the time you spend maintaining your personal site, rather than actually using it (like to create posts) https://indieweb.org/admintax
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# [girrodocus] [Murray] thanks for recommending that hosting provider - I'll have a good look at them. Wordpress might be a good option for starting out and then I could expand in future if I find a better solution for a specific need. I'd also quite like to learn how it works - I've used the wordpress-hosted version some (not particularly a fan). I'll have a peep at Netify too - thanks for mentioning it.
# [girrodocus] [KevinMarks] thanks for recommending the Publ repo. That looks like it could be a lot of fun! The main demonstration site is here: http://beesbuzz.biz/ Which reminds me somewhat of neocities sites.
# [girrodocus] [snarfed] thanks for the link to the web-hosting indieweb page, and thanks to you and [tantek] for your thoughts on running a VPS - that's really helpful! Maybe I should start with shared hosting and only think about a VPS if I hit a barrier I can't cross there.
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# [tantek] FYI for those of you dealing with crypto (the tech, not moneys) / encryption etc. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/national-security/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/
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jamietanna welcome girrodocus :wave:
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[chrisaldrich] revive old post sounds like a wordpress plugin that moves your content back to the top of your WordPress blog so it looks like you're posting regularly and may also re-syndicate to social media...
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# [chrisaldrich] yes, that's definitely what it is.... probably better used on evergreen articles than time or context specific notes or /jam posts.
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# [tw2113_Slack_] many years ago i wrote a plugin that’s meant to remind you to review/check on older content and just make sure it’s current. Mostly just pages, not posts
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# [girrodocus] I've just been reading about DBA Tax and database-antipattern and am second-guessing Wordpress as a good place to start for me. https://indieweb.org/database-antipattern
# [girrodocus] Question for people who use static sites - how do you update from your mobile phone? I'd really like to keep the friction low and get as close as possible to the ease of tweeting or posting on facebook, however I would like to incorporate bidirectional links as in a 'digital garden', and tags as in a blog. I'm less interested in hierarchical organisation like a wiki, I'd rather handle that by curating the front page.
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# [aciccarello] [girrodocus] I currently have netlify cms setup on my site but it doesn't have a good mobile view. If you setup a micropub server that updates a git repo backed static site, you could use a micropub client (like Indigenous) to make a post.
# [aciccarello] what is a micropub client?
# Loqi Micropub clients are sites and client applications that publish to servers via Micropub https://indieweb.org/Micropub_client
# [aciccarello] [girrodocus] What are you looking for with bidirectional links?
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# [girrodocus] That’s interesting. I’ll have to do some research into micropub.
# [girrodocus] High priority: I write a post titled “foo”. I later write a post titled “bar”. In “bar” I link to “foo”. The system updates “foo” so that it in turn links to “bar”, without me telling it to. This sort of behaviour is explained here https://nesslabs.com/notion-backlinks and here https://nesslabs.com/digital-garden-set-up for example.
# [girrodocus] [aciccarello] For bidirectional links (backlinks) I would want two things:
# [girrodocus] Low(er) priority: When writing the second post, “bar”, I don’t have to look up the full URL for “foo” when I link to it. This process is somehow simplified.
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# [girrodocus] Thank you both. I’ve found this GitHub repo which lists a number of “digital gardens” https://github.com/MaggieAppleton/digital-gardeners I think I need to go and do some research. Thank you for helping me talk some of this out - it’s clarified things in my head a bit, although I’m still at a bit of a loss as to where to start. I wonder if I’m hoping to get far too much functionality for my current skill set.
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# [chrisaldrich] What is a digital garden?
# Loqi A Commonplace book (or commonplaces) are a way to compile and store knowledge, usually by writing information into books, notebooks, card catalogs, or in more modern settings on one's own website https://indieweb.org/digital_garden
# [chrisaldrich] [girrodocus], you should find some useful examples of digital gardens on that ^^ page.
# [girrodocus] Oh brilliant - thanks for the link!
# [chrisaldrich] In particular you might appreciate this Gatsby set up I've seen a few people using: https://github.com/mathieudutour/gatsby-digital-garden
# [chrisaldrich] And there's another popular one using Jekyll: https://maximevaillancourt.com/blog/setting-up-your-own-digital-garden-with-jekyll
# [girrodocus] Thank you. I think when I briefly looked into Jekyll and Gatsby earlier I couldn’t see a good route to quickly add posts from my iPhone. I need to explore that further. I want to avoid Roam because it’s expensive and (as far as I understand) not indieweb.
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# [girrodocus] I will make sure to read up on those links you shared though.
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# [girrodocus] That’s really interesting. Have you written up anywhere how your decoupled CMS system works?