#dev 2021-06-24

2021-06-24 UTC
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[KevinMarks] [jacky] 'something I can use to _render_ content that isn't static' - do you mean something like nunjucks?
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aaronpk O.O https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/CSS_Scroll_Snap
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[tantek] Yeahhh!!
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aaronpk 👀
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[tantek] How cool is that?
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aaronpk i had no idea
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[schmarty] CSS scroll snap rules! I need to build more things with it.
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KartikPrabhu I don't like scroll snap, it is annoying on most websites
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GWG Expiring tokens are live in IndieAuth for WordPress.
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GWG aaronpk: Should I try to convince you again?
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aaronpk i agree it's annoying when it interrupts what you expect from normal scroll behavior, but i think there are some good applications of it!
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@dshanske IndieAuth for WordPress 4.0.0 Released: https://di5.us/b/1Qj (twitter.com/_/status/1407909125288300549)
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[tantek] aaronpk, like simulating the scrolling screens of app icons inside an iOS homescreen folder!
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aaronpk Exactly!
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[jacky] The most popularly known IndieWeb-centric CMS was perhaps Known, no?
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[jacky] like as something you can use yourself and was built up with the IndieWeb components in mind
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[tantek] yes
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[tantek] with the most IndieWeb support "out of the box"
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aaronpk If by CMS you mean something self-hostable then yea, otherwise I'd include micro.blog in that too
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[jacky] Yeah, I meant self-hostable! I'm wondering if there's a space/need for something like Gatsby but for the IndieWeb (in the sense that it'll ask for endpoints to Micropub, Webmention and IndieAuth and from there, you just do everything else)
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aaronpk GWG: that's great news, so the next best thing for me to do would be to add support for refresh tokens in quill?
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GWG aaronpk: Yes. If you do, I'll add refresh tokens. I already have the basic functionality mapped out
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GWG And you have jamietanna's implementation already live.
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GWG So we'd have 1 client and 2 endpoints supporting it to start
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GWG It could start a flood
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[jacky] heh
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[jacky] very late night thought but I've been thinking again about [tantek]'s nudging towards seeing Microsub as a handling for people and less on the feeds (in a way) and I think that could be a basis for leveraging things like `only to people I follow` or the like in a Microsub reader
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[jacky] namely if Microsub was able to give a list of the h-cards that are the representative ones of a feed in a timeline, that could be used to determine the 'audience' of said feed
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[jacky] er, more like it can be used to determine a list of people that can then be targeted as an audience
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[jacky] the only thing there would be needed to give a human-friendly name to it (like "people Jacky follow", "Jacky's followers interested in tech" <- this could be via following a specific tag feed on one's site but needs to be done by the site's feed generation system, not the Microsub server!)
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[Murray] jacky: if it were more like Next/Nuxt/latest version of 11ty, and allowed for dynamic page load options (SSR/SSG/hybrid) then I'd jump on something like that in a shot 😄 Then again, I think it would possibly make more sense to just create webmention/indieauth/etc. plugins for something like 11ty? And then just have an indieweb starter kit type thing
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[Murray] oh also, on Drupal, I've been really interested in how much it seems to be re-entering tech conversations this year. I feel like even a year ago it was seen as "legacy tech" (eurgh), something bloated and undesirable. Suddenly, I see Gatsby have specifically targeted Drupal for version-release optimisations, Next are mentioning it in blog posts, several conferences are adding talks centred on it. Definitely feels like it's being
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[Murray] rediscovered, which feels nice (for once)
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[grantcodes] I've always seen drupal as something for monolithic sites like charities and universities. I don't know if it improved but the ui was really daunting to me
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capjamesg I have just found out about web monetization. Anyone implementing this?
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capjamesg https://webmonetization.org/
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capjamesg I have no interest in implementing web monetization. Just found it interesting.
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Zegnat capjamesg: I know Ian has played around with it. https://cubicgarden.com/2020/08/12/1-month-of-trying-web-monetization/ for what I think was his final post about it, and then you will have to link-dive back in time from there
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@BarnabyWalters New #indieweb libraries: https://github.com/Taproot/micropub-adapter and https://github.com/Taproot/indieauth! Finally put the finishing touches on these two closely-related libraries, which make it very easy to add Micropub and IndieAuth support to any PHP app which uses PSR-7… https://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/5DNF1L/ (twitter.com/_/status/1408033216704004096)
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barnaby RE ^^^: I’d love to do some developer usability testing for these libraries, i.e. we have a screen-sharing video call where I watch you try to get them working with your app. Anyone interested?
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capjamesg Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (56 in all channels)
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rockorager Are there any implementations of using micropub to *edit* a post?
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[snarfed] looks like yes: https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients#Implementation_status
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[snarfed] also https://micropub.rocks/implementation-reports/clients/#0R26
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@kevinmarks ↩️ There's a fair bit of indieweb tooling to do that kind of thing eg https://brid.gy/about#publishing (twitter.com/_/status/1408080364820701194)
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GWG aaronpk: As an Oauth expert... Other than Refresh tokens... what other cool features could I add to my endpoint?
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barnaby GWG: 100% test coverage? :P or are you already there?
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GWG barnaby: I am testing challenged
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barnaby GWG: happy to give tips, although I’ve never done any wordpress plugin testing, and imagine it’s a bit tricky
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GWG I test some functionality, but not everything
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barnaby are you doing any code coverage? it’s pretty easy to set up, and really useful
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GWG GitHub actions and PHP unit
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GWG It's designing tests I hate
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barnaby I mean using XDebug to track which lines of code/code paths are covered by your tests
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GWG No.
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GWG I'm sure I could
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[snarfed] barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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[snarfed] eyes https://coveralls.io/github/snarfed/bridgy , https://coveralls.io/github/snarfed/granary , https://coveralls.io/github/snarfed/oauth-dropins
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barnaby I only just learned how to use GH actions, and set up actions for my new indieauth and micropub libraries which run tests with coverage and static analysis on PHP 7.3, 7.4 and 8.0
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barnaby those are some nice numbers [snarfed]!
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[snarfed] the first two at least
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barnaby GWG: if you wanted to try something similar, the relevant files are https://github.com/Taproot/indieauth/blob/main/run_coverage.sh and https://github.com/Taproot/indieauth/blob/main/.github/workflows/php.yml
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[snarfed] oauth-dropins’s is also criminally lying, I think it only actually measures webutils. oauth-dropins itself is basically untested
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barnaby happy to explain anything confusing
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[snarfed] regardless, agreed, testing++ coverage++
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Loqi coverage has 1 karma over the last year
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GWG barnaby: What is psalm?
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barnaby coveralls.io’s design is really nice. I decided to just GH actions for simplicity, but integrated phpunit’s HTML coverage report into the project’s GH pages, so I get automatic static coverage reports for free
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barnaby GWG: it’s a piece of software from vimeo which does static analysis of PHP software, and picks up on all sorts of type-related problems which can otherwise be hard to find
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[snarfed] coveralls is great except it seems kind of abandoned/on autopilot? https://blog.coveralls.io/ , https://twitter.com/coverallsapp . sigh
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barnaby not sure how well it’ll gel with a wordpress plugin, but for my libraries it was extremely useful
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GWG barnaby: I see how you are running the GitHub actions testing with xdebug and then phpunit with code coverage. Where does the report?
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[snarfed] i did enjoy celebrating bridgy hitting 1k tests a while back though, https://snarfed.org/2016-07-14_18206 . i think it’s at ~1850ish now, looking forward to 2k
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barnaby GWG: my GH actions/GH pages coverage reports is a bit of a hack and isn’t quite as integrated as I want. When developing, I run ./run_coverage.sh locally, which generates an HTML coverage report in /docs/coverage, which I open locally and check. This is also what gets uploaded to the GH pages along with the docs, e.g. https://taproot.github.io/indieauth/coverage/
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barnaby additionally, the GH action runs coverage tests and reports a basic text output in the action logs. this is intended for me to quickly be able to review PRs without having to pull them locally and run the tests myself
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barnaby I can just check in the GH action log and make sure that the overall coverage percentage isn’t lower than the previous one
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barnaby and if it is, ask the person sending the PR to write some more tests ;)
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GWG I may experiment with that. I switched to GitHub actions for all my repositories recently
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barnaby I was thinking of setting up a similar system for php-mf2, if the current maintainters are up for it. I noticed that the service currently used for CI there will shut down soon
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GWG Except the ones that I comaintain with pfefferle... haven't done PRs on them to remove Travis
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[snarfed] barnaby++
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barnaby and it’s about time I did some work on php-mf2 again anyway ;)
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GWG I'm a user, barnaby
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barnaby [snarfed]: nearly 2000 tests is very impressive! I think my two libraries have about 50 each? but they’re rather smaller than bridgy, of course
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barnaby how long does that take to run?
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[snarfed] thanks! yeah meaningful coverage is obviously more important than pure number
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barnaby I’d love to find a static analysis tool for python which works similarly to psalm. all the ones I found so far were either for niche use cases, or were more for policing coding style
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[snarfed] granary (~1100) and webutil (~100) are just 1-2s each, total. bridgy (~600) is longer, ~25s total, mostly because it reads/writes to a database. isolated, in memory, but still.
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GWG I should count my tests
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Loqi totally
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barnaby I get especially annoyed at pylint for telling me that my lines are long, when python makes breaking call chains over multiple lines awkward and ugly. at least you can turn those warnings off
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barnaby 25s for ~2000 tests including integration tests sounds pretty good to me
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GWG 22 tests for IndieAuth
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[snarfed] barnaby: the github codeql marketplace has some good python static analysis tools. semmle, snyk, defensecode, thunderscan, etc
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barnaby thanks [snarfed]++, I’ll look into them
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barnaby uh, Loqi
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barnaby [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (49 in all channels)
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[snarfed] my favorite in depth testing technique is mutation testing, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_testing . i’ve only played with it, haven’t integrated it enough into real projects, but really cool idea
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[snarfed] eg I’ve used mutmut for Python, it’s pretty good. https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/201903/mutmut.html , https://mutmut.readthedocs.io/
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barnaby ooh interesting, is that similar to intelligent fuzzing? seems like there are some great fuzzing tools available, I’ve never really had a project where it makes sense to use them
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[snarfed] right! mutation testing is fuzzing but at the code path (AST) level, not just inputs
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aaronpk LaBcasse[m]: here's what webmention.io uses to verify the webmention, it's getting the XML version still: https://xray.p3k.app/parse?pretty=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fburon.coffee%2Fnotes%2Fweb%2Fthings_we_left_in_the_old_web.html
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LaBcasse[m] "code: 200" means that it works ?
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aaronpk this is the thing that's used to look for the link to kickscondor
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aaronpk so xray got an http 200 from your site, but it also got the xml version not html
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LaBcasse[m] You know what it is the HTTP Accept header used by xray ?
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LaBcasse[m] < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/82c83c53aee9851ad63d29718e8a3974d90552ff/message.txt >
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aaronpk oh that's a thought... is there a reason you're including the xml line in your html?
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aaronpk yeah that's the problem, your document isn't a valid xml document
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aaronpk https://validator.w3.org/check?uri=https%3A%2F%2Fburon.coffee%2Fnotes%2Fweb%2Fthings_we_left_in_the_old_web.html
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LaBcasse[m] I use the org-mode html export feature, it is the first time I look at the output html !
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jamietanna GWG https://oauth.net/2/device-flow/ is one that I'm sure folks have talked about, I'm not sure if that's a convo you've been part of though :thinking:
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barnaby ooh mutation testing is fun. just ran a PHP mutation tester over my indieauth library
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[jacky] is that similar to property testing (where you change up the input to a function to test for edge cases?0
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barnaby yep, but changing the AST of the code being tested, and making sure that tests fail after the code was changed
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barnaby hmm but I need to figure out how to tell the mutation tester not to cause my code to spit out random files all over my tree
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GWG jamietanna: I have thought about it...wish I had a device
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[snarfed] [jacky] (fuzzing!)
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[jacky] snarfed++ yes that's the term!
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Loqi snarfed has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (50 in all channels)
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LaBcasse[m] I have changed the doctype of the exporter (https://orgmode.org/org.html#HTML-doctypes) and now everything works ! So, xhtml seems to be interpreted as xml ;)
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aaronpk no it's specifically the <?xml tag at the beginning
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aaronpk xhtml isn't helping, because it's not actually xhtml either
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jamietanna so the `accept` header from XRay is `Accept: application/mf2+json, application/activity+json, text/html, application/json, application/xml, text/xml`
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LaBcasse[m] Thanks for the information :)
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jamietanna oh yeah sorry aaronpk yeah that `<?xml` looks like the cause
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GWG jamietanna: Do you have a use case for device grant?
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jamietanna Not that I'd actually be able to use right now - but being able to i.e. log into my TV via IndieAuth without needing to i.e. type a password
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[jacky] jamietanna: that was the reason I came to the Bay Area - to help solve that problem 😭
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[jacky] then the company got bought out
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[jacky] Murray: that's another option for sure re: site rendering options! I don't actively work on that level of the Web much nowadays so I've been a bit out of touch with it (outside of Eleventy)
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GWG jamietanna: That's why I asked...I see refresh tokens... wondering what other cool things I'm ready for now
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[snarfed] obligatory conneg--
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Loqi conneg has -1 karma over the last year
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[snarfed] 🤔
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Zegnat Only -1 :o
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[snarfed] karmaexpiration--
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Loqi karmaexpiration has -1 karma over the last year
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aaronpk ha
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[snarfed] !karma contentnegotiation
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Loqi contentnegotiation has 0 karma over the last year
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[snarfed] 🤷
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[snarfed] contentnegotiation--
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Loqi contentnegotiation has -1 karma over the last year
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jamietanna contentnegotiation++ because it's great :P
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Loqi contentnegotiation has 0 karma over the last year
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jamietanna oh damn jacky! that sucks
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jamietanna GWG could have an bit of an experiment with https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth/issues/43 perhaps?
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jamietanna It's on my TODO list as I'd quite like to be able to start my personal clients autodiscovering things
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petermolnar is there any chance that someone here had successfully set up virtual linux machines on freebsd with bhyve and ipfw based NAT ?
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[KevinMarks] New twitter api https://twittercommunity.com/t/introducing-new-tweet-counts-endpoints-to-the-twitter-api-v2/155997
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GWG jamietanna: Maybe we could have something by the August pop-up. Proof of Concept
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petermolnar all hail the depth of public forums! https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/nat-and-ipfw-cannot-get-it-to-work.53553/post-306299 (re: my ipfw question)
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Jamietanna1 Sounds good GWG - I think I should be able to get some time for that
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GWG Jamietanna1: I am always willing to brainstorm
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aaronpk OwnCast << https://gabekangas.com/blog/2021/06/an-exciting-update-about-owncast/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://gabekangas.com/blog/2021/06/an-exciting-update-about-owncast/" to the "See Also" section of /OwnCast https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=76165&oldid=76068
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