#dev 2021-11-17

2021-11-17 UTC
akevinhuang, Seirdy, nertzy, Matt4, [schmarty], [chrisaldrich], [tantek], [jacky], pfefferle, [snarfed], [KevinMarks], [jeremycherfas], IWSlackGateway, [Paul_Walk], [grantcodes], [chrisbergr], Matt5, [KevinMarks]1, [grantcodes]1, [KevinMarks]2 and edburns[d] joined the channel
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aaronpk I was going thru my sleep posts from Germany and noticed there was something wrong with the timezones, and assumed it was some weird timezone bug on my site
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aaronpk I manually fixed a few of them
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aaronpk then I went and looked at posts from before the trip and before DST ended and it turns out since late September they've been importing wrong
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aaronpk which means FitBit changed something with their api regarding how timezones are handled
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aaronpk and now I am annoyed
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[snarfed] :face_with_raised_eyebrow:
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aaronpk or...
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aaronpk oh right, fitbit doesn't include any timezone info in their records
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aaronpk That means it can't be their fault because they just decided it wasn't their problem
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petermolnar I wonder what's simpler: record satellite or utc time, location, and historical daylight saving time changes, or store time and actual timezone (not RFC 3339 style +01:00, but CET, CEST, etc)
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petermolnar or would RFC 3339 style (+01:00) and location be enough?
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[KevinMarks] RFC 3339 is safer as otherwise you need to have the timezone daylight saving transition for that year around at render time too, and they're highly variable.
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@mauricerenck Yesterday @getkirby 3.6 was released. An update with some impact as the panel now works differently - at least from developer perspective. This had some impact on my plugins. So, here's an overview on what changed: https://maurice-renck.de/tech/2021/kirby-3-6-ist-da #kirby #podcaster #komments #webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1460913436599230465)
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Murray[d] edgeduchess++ BobaBoard looks really cool, and loving all the hidden details on the site 😄 It has so much personality!
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Loqi edgeduchess has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
Mila, tetov-irc, MarkJR84[d], chenghiz_, Allie, Agnessa[d], barryf[d], kogepan, jjuran, strugee_, GWG, schmudde, akevinhuang, akevinhuang2, sayanarijit[d], [tantek]2, [grantcodes], [jacky]1, [chrisaldrich]1 and [chrisbergr] joined the channel
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aaronpk speaking of micropub clients, i really need a better way to post videos on my site
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[schmarty] whispers "add videos to quillllll"
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aaronpk i keep going back and forth on whether transcoding should happen in the client or if my website should do it
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[schmarty] there are even more distinctions to make like: what about on-the-device (so the client and website don't have to fool with it)? and when you say "website" - you could push it into the micropub media endpoint, or the micropub endpoint, or build process for the site, or a video CDN, or ...
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capjamesg[d] What is transcoding? (a question for aaronpk, not loqi :D)
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "transcoding? (a question for aaronpk, not loqi :D)" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "transcoding? (a question for aaronpk, not loqi :D) is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk what is transcoding?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "transcoding" yet. Would you like to create it?_ (Or just say "transcoding is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk transcoding is the process of converting media from one format to another, such as converting video to formats that can be played back in web browsers
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk transcoding << video
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Loqi ok, I added "[[video]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /transcoding https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=77870&oldid=77869
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aaronpk video << transcoding
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Loqi ok, I added "[[transcoding]]" to the "See Also" section of /video https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=77871&oldid=76125
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aaronpk the other question i have is whether i should serve videos from my site using HLS, even if they are like 15-30 second videos
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aaronpk cause a 45mb video file isn't the nicest thing to put into a video tag
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capjamesg[d] C'mon: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59222756
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aaronpk and if i'm going to serve my video clips using HLS, am I then better off spinning up a little dedicated website to manage videos and handle the transcoding rather than building all that logic into my main site?
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capjamesg[d] That way other people could benefit from the code you write.
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capjamesg[d] I didn’t even think about this for video uploads via Micropub.
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capjamesg[d] My media endpoint only accepts images right now.
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stevestreza ffmpeg can transcode to an HLS stream and then those files can just get served through whatever static file server, the amount of work to do a one-time conversion is not that much, you just end up with a lot of little files for each source video
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aaronpk sure, the challenge is setting up the workflow for that
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aaronpk "I have a video on my phone, I want to turn it into HLS files on my server that can be embedded in a post on my website"
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aaronpk there's a whole lot of handwaving in between the start and end of that sentence ;-)
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stevestreza oh for sure, just that the "turn it into HLS files" part of that sentence is both the hard part and the part that ffmpeg can do for you :)
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aaronpk i would argue the fact that ffmpeg can do it for you makes that the easy part :)
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stevestreza right. if ffmpeg couldn't one-liner that task it would be the hard part. the rest is just storing those files and associating them with the source media so they can be linked into a post. which makes it easier than it looks
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[tantek]2 even not counting video, the whole mobile posting of stuff is *still* harder than it should be. see [schmarty] keynote from IWS 2019 for a good overview
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aaronpk brainstorms a new micropub client specifically for video
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sknebel heh, I remember trying out my media endpoint from the phone with quill in mobile browser
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aaronpk that's what i use, it works okay most of the time
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aaronpk it could use some optimization for slow/bad network connections tho
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sknebel I think that was my old phone, swithcing to the photo app caused it to unload the browser tab so far it lost all state about what to do with the image that was then returned ...
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aaronpk oh gosh
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sknebel or something along those lines
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aaronpk on ios the photo picker opens up inside the browser app context so that doesn't happen there
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[schmarty] the iOS photo picker opening in the browser context always seems to start at the same place of all recent photos :|
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aaronpk quill also does a neat trick which is it queries your media endpoint to see if there is a photo recently uploaded, so sometimes i will use Shortcuts to send a photo to my media endpoint from within some other app like Lightroom, then I open quill and the photo is ready to be included in a post
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aaronpk that's basically what I want for video too
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[schmarty] ooh yeah i could vibe with that (once i update my media endpoint to work with the query feature lol)
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aaronpk but as i'm thinking through this maybe it makes more sense to create a little standalone mini private youtube-like site that accepts file uploads and then converts that to HLS files at a few bitrates. the workflow would be share a video from my phone to that site, then log in to that site and find the latest video and you'd get a little interface to add text and tags and such which would then make a
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aaronpk micropub request to my actual website, and my site could just hotlink the HLS files from there
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[schmarty] i'm curious what you would send in the micropub post. something like `video: [url-to-the-playlist-file]`?
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aaronpk i think so?
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[schmarty] and your site would recognize that's an HLS video and spit out the appropriate markup and JS to play it
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[schmarty] (vs like an mp4 video which could get a `<video>` tag)
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[tantek]2 it's been a while since I posted a video and I don't remember my process for doing so. I do remember that whatever I did happened to create a video file that "just" worked across browsers
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[tantek]2 right I think it was an mp4 video, and yes I used a <video> tag on my site, because "JS to play it" is a non-starter IMO
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[tantek]2 as in *requiring* JS to play it
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aaronpk mp4 files "just" work on most browsers now, and most phones will record in that format natively, so things mostly just work now. but the biggest failure point is when the file gets huge
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aaronpk many browsers have native HLS support now too
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[tantek]2 I guess if the use-case is mobile posting I'm not really worried about posting "huge" videos
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aaronpk https://caniuse.com/?search=HLS for some reason Android Chrome does, but not desktop chrome
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[tantek]2 those sound like different use-cases (mobile vs huge video)
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aaronpk not sure what you consider huge, but this 15 second video i have is 45mb
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stevestreza HLS/DASH also help a lot when you want multiple bitrates and seamlessly switching between them, and better scrubbing support
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[schmarty] iOS started defaulting to hevc video instead of h264 a while back and although there is a setting to make the media library use "compatible" formats (jpeg instead of heic, mp4 instead of hevc) it seems like iOS 15 is ignoring that setting in some cases 😭
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aaronpk oh dear
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[tantek]2 what is portability
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/portability
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[tantek]2 huh
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[tantek]2 any chance of adding a "How to" to https://indieweb.org/data_portability to get your iOS device to record in more portable formats by default? (jpeg & mp4)
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sknebel aaronpk: did you ever look at peertube in detail? re "standalone site" to embed from
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sknebel although it feels like overkill, maybe an option
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aaronpk I should probably read their installation guide again, it does seem overkill but similar idea
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[KevinMarks] MP4 is a container format that can have multiple different audio and video codecs in. You want h264 video for maximum portability
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[schmarty] KevinMarks: good point on container format vs codec.
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aaronpk oops yeah i meant h264
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[schmarty] i think i'm leaning towards putting this functionality on my micropub media endpoint
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[schmarty] accept anything that looks like a video, use ffmpeg to normalize the format and codecs, return the URL for the normalized file.
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aaronpk i suppose that URL could be an m3u8 playlist too
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[schmarty] for sure. i upload tiny videos now but i could see setting a threshold at which it switches to HLS
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[schmarty] then again i already run all my image URLs on my site through an image proxy, so it is tempting to fiddle up all the videos through a video proxy (which i assume i will have to build)
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Seb[d] it is not `application/www-url-formencoded` nor `application/www-form-urlencoded`, it is `application/x-www-form-urlencoded` and you should just copy and paste values like that from the spec because that saves you hours of debugging.
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Seb[d] (this was a note to self)
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aaronpk uhoh, which spec
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Seb[d] IndieAuth
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Seb[d] Trying to get rid of Indieauth.com for my site
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aaronpk oh i misread that as "should not just copy and paste" 😂
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Seb[d] haha no, no worries
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capjamesg[d] Can anyone set up a domain registrar?
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[chrisbergr] If one doesn't have an h-feed on the home page, is there a way to link to the appropriate subpage so that readers (and bridgy, if applicable) can handle it?
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aaronpk rel=feed?
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aaronpk https://brid.gy/about#link
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[chrisbergr] Oh, it is really that simple? 🙂 I thought this link is only for rss/atom ...
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[chrisbergr] Just noticed rss/atom has rel=alternate... I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for the help
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aaronpk there is also the attribute on the link tag that can specify the content type
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aaronpk the rel value shouldn't have any meaning as to what content type to find there
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[chrisbergr] But rel=feed does not uses any type attribute, such as "microformats2", right?
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aaronpk i don't think bridgy looks for it, but it could
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[chrisbergr] The bridgy page does not notice it, but maybe other consumer will require one? If I just add a type, should it be "mf2" ord "microformats2"?
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aaronpk no i would think it would be text/html or something. not sure
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KartikPrabhu yeah text/html is what I use
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[chrisbergr] Okay, I see
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[snarfed] capjamesg afaik short answer is yes, anyone can set up a domain registrar
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jamietanna[m] Seb[d] I meant to say mind updating https://indieweb.org/consent_screen with your new IndieAuth consent screen? ☺
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Seb[d] but I haven't CSS'ed it yet.
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[snarfed] [chrisbergr] aaronpk funny, we had a conversation about rel values and mime types for h-feed pages not long ago, details in https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2021-09-27#t1632775025804300 (scroll up)
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Loqi [[tantek]] there you go, <link rel="alternate" type="text/mf2+html" href="#updates"/> now on my home page
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aaronpk i thought that sounded familiar
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[snarfed] one result was that [tantek] now advertises his h-feed page as rel="alternate" type="text/mf2+html"
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jamietanna[m] All good Seb, just thought I'd mention as it's nice to see different approaches
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[snarfed] (which Bridgy doesn't fully support yet; details in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1071 )
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Loqi [snarfed] #1071 Extend OPD feed discovery to handle rel-alternate
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Seb[d] jamietanna: I'll look at it tomorrow while/after blogging about the new setup
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Seb[d] I did not know about the page, so good to add it indeed
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[tantek]2 snarfed, this is as a result of feedback from a link rel=alternate consumer that if they were going to look for h-feed in addition to Atom/RSS that it was more work to look for a rel=feed rather than the set of rel=alternate links with their MIME types
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[tantek]2 I think we should consider deprecating rel=feed accordingly, because it may be leading publishers down a path that consuming code may note take the effort to implement
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[chrisbergr] So right now I'm thinking about using both.
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[chrisbergr] <link rel="feed" type="text/html" href="<?php echo $feed_url; ?>" />
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[chrisbergr] <link rel="alternate" type="text/mf2+html" href="<?php echo $feed_url; ?>" />
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[tantek]2 that's likely ok to experiment with. if you have analytics, consider adding a ?utm_rel=feed or something to see if anyone bothers to consume from rel=feed
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[chrisbergr] That is a very good idea.
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[chrisbergr] If I try to add my own page to an aperture channel using microformats as source, it does not show any entries. I guess it is not following this links in the head
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[tantek]2 Sounds like a good feature request to file as an issue on Aperture 🙂
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[tantek]2 at least rel="alternate" type="text/mf2+html" discovery
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[chrisbergr] There is at least thos one: https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/78
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Loqi [gRegorLove] #78 Suggestion: parse rel=feed
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[chrisbergr] I'll open one for text/mf2+html discovery
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