#dev 2022-02-03
2022-02-03 UTC
sarahd[d], jacky, Seirdy, KartikPrabhu, nertzy, [tonz], hans63us[d], [Aaron_Klemm], [fluffy], darkkirb, [jgmac1106], Seb[d], [tw2113_Slack_], sknebel, balupton[d], justGhost, IWSlackGateway, Zegnat, aspenmayer[d], [KevinMarks], Jeremiah[d] and rattroupe[d] joined the channel
# 
capjamesg[d] [tantek]++ for your Webmention / WebSub anniversary post.
# capjamesg[d] It was a good read!
# capjamesg[d] I built a WebSub Hub last year but it needs a bit of love.
# capjamesg[d] It passed the test cases I ran on it but I have a feeling something is not quite working as expected.
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# 
makeworld Hey all, I've been working on a protocol for status messages. vladimyr told me some of you might be interested in taking a look!
# vladimyr I'm also new here so hi everyone o/
# makeworld o/
# capjamesg[d] Welcome!
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# 
[KevinMarks] seems a bit like finger (or maybe webfinger, though that got complicated)
# vladimyr cors requirement is set to ensure clientside only clients can get developed
# vladimyr So cors is only required for `.well-known/fmrl`
# vladimyr Maybe spec needs to get updated so it becomes more clear, def not imposing global (server wide) cors requirement
# [KevinMarks] Why did you choose a ./well-known endpoint rather than a header or link rel defined one?
# vladimyr There is a section in a readme that addresses similarities with webfinger
# vladimyr I'm not primary author, this is makeworld 's original work/idea
# vladimyr But to me it looks like opinionated slash scope restricted webfinger :)
# vladimyr Issues should be open?
# vladimyr Or you mean GitHub discussions?
# vladimyr Idea with well-known url is to avoid preflight requests and to support those accounts without web/http presence
# vladimyr ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ also it is ofc inspired by webfinger when it comes to discovery
# [KevinMarks] A lot of the field names seem like they map to h-card ones:
# [KevinMarks] name = name
# [KevinMarks] status = note
# [KevinMarks] avatar = photo
# [KevinMarks] uri = url
# [KevinMarks] the emoji, media and media-type don't
# vladimyr Which is why I suggested discussing it here :)
# [KevinMarks] media_type being an enum instead of a mime type is a bit odd
# vladimyr Because it is really a group of mime types plus not every media is linkable
# vladimyr To give you a bit of history
# vladimyr It actually started without (media) url field
# [KevinMarks] but it isn't a link, it's a name, so it's ambiguous
# vladimyr But we put it there so people can link to stuff like yt, Spotify, book reviews, imdb
# [KevinMarks] wait, the URL is for the media, not the user?
# [KevinMarks] that is a bit confusing, especially as the example given has a homepage in
# vladimyr Yes, media is media title, media_type is media category from predefined set and url is optional media url
# [KevinMarks] Nesting the media properties might be clearer
# vladimyr Example has yt video as url?
# [KevinMarks] https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/fmrl/blob/main/spec.md#status-query shows a homepage link, not obviously related to the Lord of The Rings media
# makeworld Well the "uri" field can be for anything, but media link would be the most common use
# makeworld I didn't nest because it's not restricted to media
# vladimyr But you are right, nesting sounds less confusing
# [KevinMarks] h-card ended up with multiple links because of this issue
# [KevinMarks] so it's more of a scrobble then?
# makeworld I wouldn't say scrobble
# makeworld It could be used for that, but also anything else the user wants. Homepage or whatever
# vladimyr Glad that you corrected me, sorry for creating confusion
# [KevinMarks] That feels a bit confusing - If we're displaying the status, it's not clear if you link the name or the media then.
# [KevinMarks] so you've also got a `username` which is that you lookup, which is I suppose and h-card `nickname`
# vladimyr True, name should be your display name
# vladimyr fmrl:foo@example.com is very much the same thing as acct:foo@example.com
# vladimyr Also fmrl:foo@example.com is same thing as @foo@example.com
# vladimyr username at fmrl provider
# [snarfed] fun to see more ideas in this space! it's obviously a crowded space though. one of the first things I look for is deeper comparisons with existing, more established projects - here not just WebFinger but also ActivityPub, IndieWeb, XMPP, maybe Matrix, etc. - to explain why a new protocol is really necessary
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# capjamesg[d] [tantek] What are you referring to? I'm a big confused 🙂
# capjamesg[d] Also, p-category properties should now be transformed into MediaWiki categories. I'm excited about that.
# capjamesg[d] Actually I might need to deploy that first. But the code is written 🙂
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# capjamesg[d] Yep!
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# capjamesg[d] I need to make a list of pages to make on breakfast and coffee. I have visited so many coffee shops 😅
# capjamesg[d] Also, I need to think how / whether h-review syntax should be accepted by the wiki.
# 
[manton] I made a plug-in for Micro.blog to make RSVPs easier. Anyone using Hugo is welcome to steal it if they want… Just a Hugo shortcode. https://www.manton.org/2022/02/03/easier-rsvping-with.html
# makeworld snarfed: Good points. This is something that could work over an existing message passing system like ActivityPub or XMPP
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# makeworld I guess it seemed to me that any existing message passing system would act unneeded complexity
# makeworld s/act/add
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# capjamesg[d] [tantek] Good point.
# 
[tantek] makeworld, it's good to be skeptical about unneeded complexity, it's also good to build on existing well understood building blocks to both save time, and avoid errors & pitfalls that past experts/implementers have already discovered and designed around (without always documenting said hazards)
# [snarfed] reusing plumbing is also a massive adoption shortcut. eg if you used ActivityPub, and used either their profile bio or last post as their status message, you'd instantly have both millions of users and dozens of server and client implementations to start from and adapt, instead of having to build everything and drive adoption from zero
# makeworld Good points all round
# makeworld Using ActivityPub bio or post as the status message kind of defeats the point though, because then it's just another way to view a feed. Making it a separate thing limits adoption but helps keep the point
# makeworld jacky: What do you mean?
# makeworld Hmm
# makeworld Yeah thanks
# [KevinMarks] Aaron's 'emoji changes avatar image' implementation could be an interesting thing for fmrl too
# capjamesg[d] I like the idea of distinguishing status similar to how you do it with your blue dot aaronpk.
# capjamesg[d] But that is more location than anything.
# capjamesg[d] If I had sent my first message a second earlier your arrows would have pointed to the right message aaronpk 😂
# [KevinMarks] Showing the most recent post makes that a more natural integration, yes
# capjamesg[d] No that was my fault haha.
# capjamesg[d] Maybe a feed could actually pin a status when I think about it.
# capjamesg[d] But to be honest just posting is giving a status update in itself.
# capjamesg[d] With maybe a h-geo object to say where you are if you really wanted to convey that.
# capjamesg[d] Sorry, this is a tad off topic.
# capjamesg[d] [snarfed] yeah, I am using webmention like that quite a bit now re: server to server interactions.
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# makeworld I guess it's impossible to control clients, but the way the API is designed, there's no place to store previous statuses server-side
# makeworld Always possible, but creating a new protocol that bans it outright might help things in that regard
# 
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "silently ignore their messages" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "silently ignore their messages is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "unsubscribe" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "unsubscribe is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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