#dev 2022-02-04

2022-02-04 UTC
nertzy, darkkirb, strugee, jacky, gRegorLove_ and [tw2113_Slack_] joined the channel
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[tw2113_Slack_] Webmentions got a...mention. over in https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2022/02/reducing-web-carbon-footprint-optimizing-social-media-embeds/
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aaronpk Nice
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GWG Anyone using local government data on their website?
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samwilson I'm in the process of trying to put some heritage-places data on one of my sites, but it's not functional yet. It sort of feels easier to walk the streets and add the info to OpenStreetMap! :-P https://archives.org.au/FSPS
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GWG I was just randomly playing with APIs
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[tantek] [tw2113_Slack_]++ nice find!
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Loqi [tw2113_Slack_] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
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[tantek] green << 2022-02-03 Smashing Magazine: [https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2022/02/reducing-web-carbon-footprint-optimizing-social-media-embeds/ Reducing The Web’s Carbon Footprint: Optimizing Social Media Embeds] / While the spotlight is on reducing the environmental impact, many of these tips will be great for performance too.
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Loqi ok, I added "2022-02-03 Smashing Magazine: [https://www.smashingmagazine.com/2022/02/reducing-web-carbon-footprint-optimizing-social-media-embeds/ Reducing The Web’s Carbon Footprint: Optimizing Social Media Embeds] / While the spotlight is on reducing the environmental impact, many of these tips will be great for performance too." to the "See Also" section of /green_computing https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79486&oldid=79185
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capjamesg[d] [metbril] <span class="p-rsvp">yes</span> would indicate a "yes" RSVP.
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capjamesg[d] You can also use no, maybe, and interested according to the wiki.
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capjamesg[d] There is a good markup example here: https://indieweb.org/rsvp#How_to_publish
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[metbril] That's strange, because my Maybe is registered from this page: https://robertvanbregt.nl/2022/02/04/4540/
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Loqi [Robert] In reply to https://events.indieweb.org/2022/02/personal-libraries-pop-up-session-Wax8N17zQuY0. RSVPs maybe. Interesting topic.
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[metbril] No rsvp markup.
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[metbril] Just using the plain #indieweb-wordpress webmention and micropub plugins here.
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capjamesg[d] I think you need to explicit markup to indicate the post is an RSVP and not just a reply.
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[metbril] It must be that the webmention receiver at events.indieweb.org is parsing `<p>RSVPs maybe.</p>`? I was hoping someone could confirm this. In that case it looks to me that the micropub plugin should add the markup at rendering the post.
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capjamesg[d] Using Xray, I can see it isn't being picked up as an RSVP: http://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Frobertvanbregt.nl%2F2022%2F02%2F04%2F4540%2F&pretty=true, just a reply to the events page.
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capjamesg[d] Whereas on this page on my blog I use the p-rsvp syntax and it renders as an RSVP: http://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https://retro.jamesg.blog/rsvp/2021-09-28-974/
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capjamesg[d] <p>RSVP: <span class="p-rsvp">yes</span></p>
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[metbril] So if my markup is not correct, how can that be shown there?
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capjamesg[d] Oh wait you do have an RSVP markup there.
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capjamesg[d] <data class="p-rsvp" value="maybe">maybe</data>
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capjamesg[d] I missed this earlier. It looks like your site is publishing the right markup.
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[metbril] where in the page is that?
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[metbril] I can't find that with 'view source'
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capjamesg[d] I just hovered over the "maybe" word.
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capjamesg[d] Maybe WordPress automatically adds the p-rsvp markup for "maybe"?
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[metbril] ??? Well, not in the HTML source I can see in Safari nor Firefox.
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capjamesg[d] Hm that is very strange. It was just there but I can't see it now.
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[metbril] Curl also doesn't find it
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[metbril] Very strange. The web mention endpoint is at events.indieweb.org/webmention. It looks like [aaronpk] maintains this. Perhaps he can answer this.
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[metbril] not sure if that mention works on irc, so cc aaronpk
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capjamesg[d] If you mention someone by username they will know they have been mentioned.
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[metbril] Does this work across slack and irc?
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[metbril] bc slackuses the `@`
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capjamesg[d] Yes, it does. IRC doesn't use any identifier.
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[metbril] In that case, sorry for the noise 😉
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jamietanna snarfed just received webmentions from bridgy via reddit, woop!
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kinduff hello, should webmentions in a site need to be formatted with an `h-card` tag, for example? looking for best practices. And I mean incoming webmentions
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kinduff sorry if this is not the correct channel to ask
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[KevinMarks] this is a good channel. Webmentions by default just say that a link has been made, but there are ways to mark up the linking page to show different meanings. an h-card is good to say who made the post. https://indieweb.org/responses lists the different kinds
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aaronpk [metbril] capjamesg[d]: did you figure this out? I don't see any rsvp property in that page, just `<p>RSVPs maybe.</p>`
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capjamesg[d] It was strange because I saw markup with a data attribute earlier.
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capjamesg[d] But XRay didn't pick up on it and later when I returned the attribute was gone.
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aaronpk I don't know what to tell you! It's not there now tho
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aaronpk There's also an extra e-content inside the e-content
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capjamesg[d] Yeah haha. Maybe I'm going mad 😂
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[manton] [aaronpk] I noticed that events.indieweb.org doesn’t ignore HTML whitespace in RSVPs… Is that intentional? e.g. https://events.indieweb.org/2022/03/micro-camp-2022-IW2Qp3ygHike
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[manton] I can improve my Hugo plug-in to not output so much whitespace in the future, but wondering if this is something that should be cleaned up on the events site (or working as it’s supposed to).
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aaronpk it's probably a bit more complicated than that, let me check
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aaronpk hmm
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sknebel !mf2 https://www.manton.org/2022/02/04/looking-forward-to.html
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Kaja https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manton.org%2F2022%2F02%2F04%2Flooking-forward-to.html
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Loqi [Manton Reece] Looking forward to our 2nd Micro Camp. Mostly virtual but I’ll be in Portland for it. 📅
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Loqi [Manton Reece] Looking forward to our 2nd Micro Camp. Mostly virtual but I’ll be in Portland for it. 📅
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sknebel yes Loqi, you read JSON, I know. please stop :D
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aaronpk looks like the microformats parser is doing the right thing, but xray is not
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aaronpk i do agree that it should have ignored the newlines in the html
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sknebel (I'd also say the in-reply-to link doesnt need to be in the content though)
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aaronpk agreed
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aaronpk oof, now i remember why i did it this way
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[manton] Micro.blog puts pretty much everything in the content, for better or worse. I know this is debatable.
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aaronpk i have to create my own plaintext version of the HTML content, I can't use what the microformats parser gives, in order to be able to remove things like alt text from img tags and remove photo URLs and such
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sknebel [manton]: also the <data class="p-rsvp" value="yes" /> shouldnt be self-closing, thats not valid html5
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[manton] Old XHTML habits die hard.
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sknebel aaronpk: heh, theres still the repos with the "lets try redo text content" attempts Zegnat and I came up with last(?) Nürnberg IWC
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aaronpk yeah it's a mess
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sknebel I dont remember the details, maybe Zegnats PHP approach is useful for you here though
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aaronpk so I don't think I can quickly update XRay for this
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aaronpk but maybe the quicker fix is to have the events site show the HTML instead of the plaintext
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sknebel e.g. part of it is just reducing sequences of whitespace to one whitespace
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[manton] Okay. I’ll improve the HTML generation on my side and re-send the Webmentions so it looks nicer.
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sknebel strip spaces around newlines, collapse multiple newlines in a row to one
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sknebel or show cleaned HTML, also an option, yeah
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aaronpk if we agree on this for the microformats parsing rules i can go back to using the plaintext from the microformats parser in xray https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/16
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[manton] I think displaying HTML would be good, although I would definitely strip out a bunch of dangerous and/or unneeded tags/attributes.
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Loqi [aaronpk] #16 consider not including img alt text as part of surrounding text properties
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aaronpk yeah xray already does a ton of sanitization of the html
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[manton] That’s good.
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sknebel aaronpk: https://github.com/Zegnat/php-innertext
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Loqi [Zegnat] php-innertext: 🏃🐉 Run. Here be dragons.
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk Zegnat++
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Loqi Zegnat has 13 karma in this channel over the last year (29 in all channels)
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sknebel you'll need to change that code to skip images, it still has the current handling of them
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sknebel we spent like an afternoon at the coffee place and an afternoon at joschis on that. the CSS specs for that stuff are not fun
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aaronpk "not fun" sounds like an understatement
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sknebel (heres the python equivalent https://github.com/sknebel/python-innertext )
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sknebel (at least I hope its equivalent, afaik we reached that point)
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sknebel ( [manton] html5 validator has a few more complaints btw https://html5.validator.nu/?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manton.org%2F2022%2F02%2F04%2Flooking-forward-to.html&showsource=yes )
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sknebel (a bunch at the start can be ignored, but a few are worth looking at if they arent quick fixes)
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[manton] Thanks.
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aaronpk I'm about to push out the fix to the event site so don't worry about changing the markup for now
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[manton] Great!
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[manton] Looks good!
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sknebel aaronpk: what did you do?
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aaronpk showing html
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aaronpk alright, that's done, they look better now thanks to the browser collapsing the newlines itself
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sknebel aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (122 in all channels)
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aaronpk let me know if you see any other comments on other events with markup that shouldn't be allowed. IIRC images are ok but maybe that's not a good idea, we'll see
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sknebel yeah, I'd avoid images. especially since they might loose/get badly-fitting sizes
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aaronpk actual photo responses are handled separately anyway
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[KevinMarks] I think we fixed the tests to reflect those inner text changes. Certainly before they had loads of extraneous whitespace.
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aaronpk [KevinMarks]: that issue i linked doesn't have any discussion and is a pretty significant change to the parsing spec so i would expect it to have been documented there if there was a change
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[KevinMarks] Sorry, I meant the inner text changes, not the image alt stripping.
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Zegnat Haha, yeah, a lot of that innerText simulation code was written in the lawnchairs at Tollwerk. I think while aaronpk was having an OAuth workshop in the event space? :D
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sknebel yea
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I think either works.
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capjamesg[d] Requiring that content is posted on your own site might be a bit prohibitive, although that would be the preferred way of adding content.
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capjamesg[d] And I can imagine scenarios where someone might just want to post on the wiki.
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kinduff Thank you [KevinMarks]!
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[tantek] metbril, capjamesg[d], note that there's a WordPress plugin for creating an RSVP post without having to deal with any markup! When WordPress setups come up, be sure to checkout and ask in #indieweb-wordpress or at least mention GWG 🙂
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[tantek] yeah on the b&c content syndication thing, I was asking about what I should do with my existing content e.g. on tantek.com/w/sfcafes
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[tantek] like is it ok to have content that is *only* on b&c or are we trying to make it a requirement to have it on your own site first?
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[tantek] it's worth thinking about lifecycle issues for the wiki too, how should it handle closing of venues
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I think both work: post on your own site first or make something for the wiki that's not on your site.
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capjamesg[d] For lifecycle events, I think a yellow highlight box that says "This venue is no longer open but the page is preserved for historical purposes." would be prudent.
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capjamesg[d] The page could be locked, too, although I can foresee changes to the page after the eatery has closed (i.e. a new venue has opened in the same place in homage to the last one, like Room and Rumours was to Baba Budan in Edinburgh).
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] re: your content. Feel free to upload it manually to the wiki with a link to the original wiki page if that's easier for you?
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[tantek] That makes sense. Now to figure out a URL / naming / page convention for such non-syndicated content, because there's no need to replicate URLs to a silo (also in this case, I have only one page, so I need to make up a new page for each of the cafes listed there anyway)
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capjamesg[d] That is a good question.
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capjamesg[d] Any ideas?
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[tantek] Will go for a walk and think about it
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[tantek] Do we need a top level place hierarchy to the granularity of individual cities (as a way of avoiding name collisions across cities)? e.g. /US/CA/SF/ ? and should we assume that we're not trying to solve the Starbucks or McDonald's problem? (of individual tips/reviews for specific venues?)
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[tantek] (though I have added very specific per-location photos of hours and such especially on holidays like xmas where they vary greatly, to individual Starbucks venues on Foursquare)
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capjamesg[d] I hadn’t even thought about that.
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capjamesg[d] That would be an issue. I am sure that Edinburgh is the name of a city in the US too, for example.
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capjamesg[d] Yes, /country/state (if relevant)/city would be good.
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capjamesg[d] /UK/Scotland/Edinburgh for example.
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GWG I do country/region/locality
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GWG Country and reason as per iso 3166
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GWG I think it is 3166
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GWG https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2
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GWG Yes, iso-3166-2
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] welcome to the world of things I overthink 😂
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[aciccarello] I spend way too much time on path design
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capjamesg[d] URL design is important though 👀
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capjamesg[d] Can you make a URL different from the title in MediaWiki?
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capjamesg[d] I haven’t dug too deep into the API docs but I couldn’t see this option.
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capjamesg[d] Although it doesn’t really matter too much as the URL is useful context anyway.
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aaronpk no but you can install the "notitle" plugin which lets you hide the auto-generated title of the page and add your own
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aaronpk e.g. see the source of this page https://indieweb.org/2022/Pop-ups
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capjamesg[d] That is very useful!
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capjamesg[d] /UK/Scotland/Edinburgh/Fortitude_Coffee would be quite a long winded title 😂
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[metbril] ↩️ No, we didn't. I'm still confused why that page was recognized as a maybe at all.
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aaronpk [metbril]: threads don't translate to the other chat interfaces, not sure what that's in reply to
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[metbril] ↩️ That extra e-content is what the micropub plug-in does.
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[metbril] I still haven't figured out why my maybe without markup ended up as a real maybe.
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[metbril] End that extra e-content you mentioned is rendered by the Wordpress micropub plugin.
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aaronpk capjamesg[d] said at one point he saw an rsvp property
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[metbril] He said so but we couldn't reproduce.
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aaronpk have you tried making a new post and seeing what happens? maybe something is changing it shortly after it's created
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[metbril] That could be. It then I'd have to look at the actual database record right after the micropub server has saved it.
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[metbril] There's 2 other possibilities. The webmention receiver parses my content (by accident or on purpose). Or the micropublish.net client sends the webmention instead of my Wordpress.
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[metbril] Will do that tomorrow. It's 23 CET now. Time for bed.
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GWG I haven't touched the markup generated by the micropub plugin in ages as I use Post Kinds to render mine
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