#dev 2022-02-10

2022-02-10 UTC
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aaronpk barnaby: while you're at it, can you rename the default branch to "main"?
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aaronpk i didn't realize that one was still not changed yet
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barnaby yep, not done that before on GH but I’ll take a look at it
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aaronpk it's easy, it's in the settings. main thing is to do it before setting up all the config that references branch names
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aaronpk https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/settings/branches
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barnaby oh nice. yeah I actually just had to change the build script to use master, so I know to change that one back
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barnaby hmm the current version of php-mf2 requires php ≥5.4, but the minimum version in composer.json is 5.6
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aaronpk i thought we had decided to drop 5.* support a while back
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GWG aaronpk: WordPress is at 5.6 now
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barnaby okay, looks like it was agreed a while back https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/issues/104
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Loqi [jonnybarnes] #104 Bump php version support to 5.6
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barnaby I suppose that’s another good reason for this to be a 0.5 release rather than an 0.4.7
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barnaby GWG: the php codesniffer which was being used in php-mf2 seems to be broken with composer 2, my proposal would be to replace it with GH actions which run the test suite under PHP 5.6, 7.3, 7.4 and 8.0. what do you think?
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GWG barnaby: PHPCS is broken with composer 2? I use it in my projects
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barnaby there might be a new version which works, but the version which was in composer.json is broken, and I have no idea how to fix it
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GWG barnaby: Let me look
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barnaby something to do with it being an old plugin, I think?
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GWG phpcodesniffer-composer-installer is set to ^0.6. Change it to 0.7
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GWG 0.7.0 was the first version to support the v2 plugin API
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GWG Latest version is 0.7.2
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barnaby cool, that worked, thanks
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GWG The PHPCS requirement you have is ^2.6 || ^3.1.0, you should be able to bump it all the way up to 3.6.2, latest version, as that supports php 5.4 and above
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barnaby there are also a bunch of properties in composer.json which are now invalid
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barnaby so I just removed them
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GWG The PHPUnit requirements should also be adjusted
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GWG You should be able to allow for 5, 6, or the 7 branches
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barnaby any idea what the newest version of PHPUnit which supports 5.6 but doesn’t require us to rewrite all the tests with namespaces is?
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barnaby 6 doesn’t work
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Loqi agreed.
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GWG Try ^5.0 ?
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barnaby looks like ^5 is good for the moment
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barnaby ^5.7, to be precise
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GWG In my code, I use "^5.7.21 || ^6.5 || ^7.5"
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GWG To go back to the top of the discussion, I switched everything of mine over to GitHub actions, but I run phpcs as an action.
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barnaby as far as I can tell, using v6 requires us to rewrite all the tests using namespaced classes rather than PHPUnit_Framework_TestCase
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barnaby so I’ll stick with ^5.7 for the moment
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GWG barnaby: Project for another day, possibly.
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barnaby exactly
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GWG I don't think it gains us anything at this time
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barnaby yeah
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barnaby I also want to add psalm into the CI workflow, but that’s another near-future project
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barnaby priorities right now are to get CI working again and make a 0.5.0 release
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barnaby just running ./vendor/bin/phpcs is all which is required, right? no extra flags or configuration in the command itself?
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GWG barnaby: You can set the flags I think in the phpcs file.
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GWG We don't though
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barnaby yep, which is already set up, right? so the GH actions workflow just needs to run ./vendor/bin/phpcs
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barnaby there’s a phpcs.xml file?
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GWG Yes.
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GWG The only argument in the composer file is -p, but that is progress, you don't need that in GitHub actions
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barnaby okay, great
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GWG You could also have it just generate the summary report, but I think Actions should show the list of errors, not a summary
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barnaby hmm it’s almost there, but the lock file is causing problems in the multi-version action, as composer can’t get the most suitable versions of dependencies for php 5.6
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barnaby in my newer libraries I don’t commit composer.lock, to avoid these clashes. any reason not to so do here?
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GWG barnaby: I removed it from some of my repos for this reason
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barnaby okay, I’ll do the same for mf2
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barnaby wow, getting testing tools to work over wide ranges of PHP versions is a pain
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GWG Been there
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aaronpk yeah i think i finally gave up on 5.6 with XRay partly because of that
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GWG aaronpk: On a positive note, XRay isn't used in WordPress, so that isn't a limiting factor. PHP-MF2 is
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aaronpk yea :/
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barnaby for the moment I just disabled the php 8.0 action testing, at least until we re-write the tests for a newer version of PHPUnit
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barnaby okay, dependencies are updated, composer.lock removed, GH action set up to run tests and code sniffer on three different versions of PHP
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barnaby nearly good to go, I think
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barnaby Gw
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barnaby oops
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barnaby GWG: want to have a quick glance over https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/pull/227 and see if I’ve missed anything?
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Loqi [barnabywalters] #227 Update dependencies, get GH actions working
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barnaby and any objections to me moving #184 to the 0.5.1 milestone, in favour of being able to make a quick release?
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barnaby it’s the only outstanding issue in the 0.5.0 milestone
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GWG Looks good to me.
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GWG As for #184, I think to get a new version out, it is acceptable
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barnaby who knows, maybe 0.5.1 won’t be very far in the future anyway
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GWG barnaby: I'm willing to try and pitch in for that
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[schmarty]1 look at all this exciting php-mf2 work 🎉
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[schmarty]1 barnaby++ aaronpk++
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Loqi barnaby has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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Loqi aaronpk has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (128 in all channels)
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barnaby GWG++ too!
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Loqi GWG has 16 karma in this channel over the last year (69 in all channels)
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[schmarty]1 GWG++ toooo! also i had no idea WP still supported php 5.6??
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Loqi GWG has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (70 in all channels)
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[schmarty]1 (had to split up the karma since loqi only sees it at the beginning and end of a line)
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barnaby oh good to know
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GWG [schmarty]1: It was a long time for it to get to 5.6
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GWG https://wordpress.org/about/stats/
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Loqi Statistics
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GWG 7.1% of WordPress installs are still on 5.6.
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GWG It has to go down a bit before they bump minimum to 7
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barnaby aaronpk: I can’t access the branches settings page, can you change master to main? I’ll handle the config changes
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barnaby or just bump my access up a notch so I can do it
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aaronpk done
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barnaby thanks!
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[tw2113_Slack_] I don't see WP dropping 5.6 support any time soon
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GWG [tw2113_Slack_]: I would likely agree, but they seem to want to get there.
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[tw2113_Slack_] i think i just wish they'd accept short php array syntax in patches
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GWG [tw2113_Slack_]: I've just gotten used to doing without
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[tw2113_Slack_] they are doing what they can, from what i've seen, to help ensure they're not going to completely break in php8+ but i don't think it's perfect by any means yet
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GWG [tw2113_Slack_]: Re short arrays, https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/07/12/php-coding-standards-changes/ they made a deliberate decision on that
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barnaby okay, php-mf2 v0.5.0 is released! https://packagist.org/packages/mf2/mf2
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barnaby only took a couple of hours of frantically relearning github actions xD
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aaronpk wow! barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (11 in all channels)
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aaronpk https://pin13.net/mf2/ is running v0.5.0 now!
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barnaby I also added some fancy badges to the readme, and changed a bunch of “I” to “we” to better reflect how the project is actually maintained
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barnaby yay!
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Loqi woot
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barnaby okay, time for bed. it’s 2am lol
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barnaby goodnight
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Loqi don't let the bed bugs bite
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aaronpk anyone want to write up release notes to summarize the changes? https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/milestone/4?closed=1
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[tantek] barnaby++ superb!!!
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Loqi barnaby has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (12 in all channels)
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capjamesg[d] What is elasticsearch?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "elasticsearch" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "elasticsearch is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what is naming
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Loqi Naming is hard, yes, even, especially for a personal site since you have to pick both a name you like as a representation of yourself, and one that hasn’t been already taken, though sometimes you can ask nicely (or pay a lot) for domains that are registered but unused https://indieweb.org/naming
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[tantek] naming << There’s an oft cited article (which ironically lacks citations of its own) about common mistaken assumptions about names (which is likely a mix of actual bad assumptions, and what seems to be made up by the author), whereas it really should cite articles like this: https://www.kron4.com/news/list-of-illegal-baby-names-in-the-united-states-and-around-the-world/
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Loqi ok, I added "There’s an oft cited article (which ironically lacks citations of its own) about common mistaken assumptions about names (which is likely a mix of actual bad assumptions, and what seems to be made up by the author), whereas it really should cite articles like this: https://www.kron4.com/news/list-of-illegal-baby-names-in-the-united-states-and-around-the-world/" to the "See Also" section of /naming https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79559&oldid=74963
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[tantek] I'm more and more convinced that there's something about the Twitter UX since at least 2008 that has been dumbing down people.
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[tantek] The Argument Machine (Powazek) is part of it. The reduction in "friction" (DHH's post) is also part of it. But there's a bigger story here beyond emotional reactionism reinforced by a dopamine UX.
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[tantek] There is a misinformation amplification bias in the UX. There’s a side-effect of reduced attention spans. Reduced ability to focus on deep thinking to solve harder problems.
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[tantek] By replicating that UX, Mastodon has replicated most of those problems as well, despite changing plumbing, federation, etc.
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capjamesg[d] sknebel I think everything is now over to the new server. The only thing left is to fix my CI pipeline for publishing posts.
_balupton[d], sknebel, [KevinMarks], justGhost, strugee, IWSlackGateway, Zegnat, tetov-irc, aspenmayer[d], petermolnar, daiyi[d], Jeremiah[d], hans63us[d], edburns[d], Zegnat[d], Ramon[d], Christian_Olivie, balupton[d], corenominal[d], sarahd[d], mossymaker[d], aaronpk[d], Murray[d], shaunix[d], capjamesg[d], MarkJR84[d], marksuth[d], rattroupe[d], sayanarijit[d], Myst[d], dovedozen[d], hoenir, Seb[d], Asaf_Agranat[d], wackycity[d], maxwelljoslyn[d], nertzy and jacky joined the channel
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@nicosomb @KappaTalks Hello! I try to use your pelican plugin for webmentions. Is that the latest version on your github repository? Thank you for your work. (twitter.com/_/status/1491803358587277322)
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kinduff [tantek]: "This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws.", mind if I edit with a web archive copy?
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[tantek] kinduff, yes please add an internet archive link!
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kinduff aaronpk: are you still accepting new client ids for indielogin.com?
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aaronpk i am trying not to treat it as a general purpose service
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aaronpk only for things specifically relating to indieweb infrastructure
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kinduff makes sense, im creating a service for the indieweb called mentioner, does that count as infra?
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aaronpk possibly
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kinduff alrighty, ill send it to you when done, if it does not apply ill host it
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kinduff thanks!
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aaronpk sounds good
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barnaby I added a better explanation of the various breaking changes to the changelog and GH release, and updated the readme documentation to correctly show the new results of img alt parsing https://github.com/microformats/php-mf2/releases/tag/v0.5.0
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aaronpk barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (13 in all channels)
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@thomasjsn ↩️ 15 days later — aaaand they're gone! Fun to implement, but I don't really need them. Maybe I'll look into webmentions or something instead. (twitter.com/_/status/1491857706877079553)
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[tantek] which they/them is "gone"?
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barnaby according to the thread, self-hosted comments
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[tantek] what made them give up on self-hosted comments in 15min?
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barnaby maybe take a closer look at the units ;)
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barnaby although I can totally imagine getting enough spam in 15 minutes to be put off self-hosting comments
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[tantek] oh wow yikes
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[tantek] that's worth documenting as a criticism of that particular self-hosted commenting system as a warning to others who might be considering it
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[tantek] what is Isso
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Loqi isso is a self-hosted commenting server similar to Disqus https://indieweb.org/isso
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[tantek] [fluffy] are you still using /Isso?
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sknebel "Update Feb 2: 15 days — that’s how long it took for me to remove my comments implementation. It worked just fine, I just decided that I didn’t need it after all."
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sknebel "Implementing it was fun, maintaining the additional VPS was not. It kind of goes against my goal with this website; keep it simple."
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[tantek] yeah I didn't see the mention of spam on the post. barnaby were you hypothesizing or did you see an actual complaint about spam?
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barnaby I was joking based on you apparently having read the “15 days” as “15 minutes”
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barnaby and yikes, an entire separate VPS for self-hosted comments? I guess it could make sense if you’re getting vast quantities of comments, but that’s definitely a heavy admin tax for everyone else
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[tantek] lol yes, classic ST II WoK mistake/cipher
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[tantek] Isso << Criticism: [[admintax]] of maintaining an additional VPS: [https://blog.cavelab.dev/2022/01/comments-again/ Comments — again] (2022-02-05 update) <blockquote>"Implementing it was fun, maintaining the additional VPS was not. It kind of goes against my goal with this website; keep it simple."</blockquote>
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: [[admintax]] of maintaining an additional VPS: [https://blog.cavelab.dev/2022/01/comments-again/ Comments — again] (2022-02-05 update) <blockquote>"Implementing it was fun, maintaining the additional VPS was not. It kind of goes against my goal with this website; keep it simple."</blockquote>" to a new "See Also" section of /Isso https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79565&oldid=79564
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sknebel yeah, if you dont run anything else a VPS-hosted solution just isnt the thing for you
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sknebel more "choose the wrong tool for the job"
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capjamesg[d] sknebel thanks again for the VPS recommendation.
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capjamesg[d] The Hetzner VPS is twice and good and 2x lower in price than my old DigitalOcean server.
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capjamesg[d] I decommissioned the DO server today.
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sknebel that was fast :D
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capjamesg[d] It was all quite routine.
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capjamesg[d] Other than the MediaWiki migration.
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capjamesg[d] The elastic search one was literally a few commands.
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capjamesg[d] With the elastic dump NPM package.
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[fluffy] [tantek] Yeah, isso is working more or less fine for me. There’s a lot that could be better about it but people rarely post comments anyway.
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[tantek] great good to know
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[fluffy] My only real complaint about it is that the author doesn’t seem to care about maintaining any sort of release cadence so there’s a LOT of bugfixes etc. that you have to build from source yourself to get, and the build process is janky
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[fluffy] he’s also incredibly pragmatic about supporting just the minimal set of what he thinks a comment system needs to support, and doesn’t seem interested in working on, say, proper antispam functions.
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[fluffy] but at least for my site it’s been fine to individually moderate each comment
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sknebel [tantek]: still feel like "software needs to run somewhere" is weird to explicitly quote as criticism about software. we can put that on rpetty much any software we document
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[tantek] sknebel, not quite. there's a difference between requiring / working with: static-site based systems, more "turnkey" software hosting like Heroku, shared hosting, VPS, and your own hardware
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[fluffy] I’m reading the article now. This person is DEFINITELY overcomplicating things.
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[fluffy] Isso is intended to run as one tiny Python process on the server that’s already running all your other processes. It only supports SQLite, as well, making it really unsuitable for most cloud providers.
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[fluffy] like, one of isso’s mottos is “Comments are not big data”
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[tantek] [fluffy] feel free to update / add clarifications to what I added in /Isso
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[tantek] I think that kind of summary would be useful to add "intended to run as one tiny Python process on the server that’s already running all your other processes. It only supports SQLite,"
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[fluffy] sure
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[fluffy] like I mean I don’t want to massively defend isso, it’s far from perfect and it’s very niche (it just happens to be niche in the same way that Publ is niche so it works really well for me)
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[tantek] right, accuracy++
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Loqi accuracy has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] point being, you can't run Isso e.g. on Heroku because of the point you made (re: SQLite / cloud providers)
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[fluffy] Yeah, absolutely.
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sknebel [fluffy]++
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Loqi [fluffy] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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[fluffy] One of my many Round Tuit plans is to build a comment system that’s even more like how I want it to operate, but ugh my brain is so far away from programming-for-fun these days
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sknebel ugh I feel that one very much
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[tantek] same same
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