#dev 2022-05-05

2022-05-05 UTC
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[KevinMarks] so, does anything display a repost well? Looks like monocle skips it
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[KevinMarks] it's a big part of tumblr, but marking up as it says here https://indieweb.org/repost#How_to_Publish doesn't show up
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[KevinMarks] am I missing something? https://indieweb-test.tumblr.com/post/683331082096099328
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[KevinMarks] https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb-test.tumblr.com%2F
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[snarfed] big day, my Twitter account got unlocked for the v2 API. https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-api/getting-started/about-twitter-api
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[snarfed] can't tell how rolling it is. anyone else get an email too? "Inviting you back to the Twitter Developer Platform"
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[snarfed] doesn't really matter for Bridgy yet though. it averages 30-60qpm to the Twitter API, and both the v2 tiers are way lower than that, 1.7qpm and 3.3qpm
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[snarfed] also worrying: sounds like the lower tier (Essential) doesn't need approval, and the second tier (Elevated) does. however, the comparison chart on https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-api/getting-started/about-twitter-api says Essential doesn't include access to the current (legacy) v1.1 API
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[snarfed] soo....what happens when I sign up for the Essential tier? does my account and all of its apps immediately _lose_ access to the v1.1 API? that would be...bad
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[snarfed] they do say "If you were approved for a developer account before November 15th, 2021, you were automatically converted to Elevated access. This means that your existing Apps can continue to be used to make requests to standard v1.1, premium v1.1, and enterprise endpoints, and that all of your user Access Tokens are still valid."
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[snarfed] ...but what does _approved_ mean there? I was originally approved for v1.1, and then later rejected for v2. so...? ugh.
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GWG [snarfed]: Call Elon?
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GWG Kidding
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[KevinMarks] so do we have a way to mark up a chat? https://indieweb-test.tumblr.com/post/683369683021398016/indieweb-dev
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Loqi [indieweb-test] indieweb-dev Tantek: what is Tumblr? Loqi: Tumblr is a popular content hosting silo, especially for...
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[KevinMarks] I could do what chat.indieweb.org does and make each line a h-entry but not sure how that works inside a post
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@lcptuk Webmention W3C protocol for notifying a URL when a website links to it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1522027718182944769)
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[KevinMarks] tumblr << new project for the updated template https://github.com/indieweb/tumblr
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Loqi ok, I added "new project for the updated template https://github.com/indieweb/tumblr" to the "See Also" section of /Tumblr https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81267&oldid=81265
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[KevinMarks] There is some info there, I'll update the wiki tomorrow as it is nearly 4am here. Do try it out and send me issues at that project
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[chrisaldrich]1 [KevinMarks]++
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Loqi [KevinMarks] has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (47 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] I got rel-me for twitter working in tumblr https://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb-test.tumblr.com%2F
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jacky nice!
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[fluffy] I’m really happy to see work moving forward on indieweb-tumblr. I’ve been on a kick of evangelizing this a lot lately, and I have a bunch of other things I’d love to see tumblr add beyond removing href.li and adding mf2.
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[fluffy] I’m sad that wip.tumblr.com never answered my detailed ask about it though
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@fluffy ↩️ For a while I've been posting to tumblr some ideas for how tumblr can become a better indieweb player, and have submitted some of them to wip but I'm not sure if they saw them. I'd love to see full bidirectional webmention support and the ability to subscribe to external feeds. (twitter.com/_/status/1522075034763755521)
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[snarfed] asked about the twitter v2 API confusion: https://twittercommunity.com/t/if-i-sign-up-for-the-v2-essential-tier-could-my-v1-1-apps-stop-working/170805
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@schnarfed ↩️ In case it helps, one proof of concept example here is how Bridgy adds webmention support to Tumblr, both incoming and outgoing: https://brid.gy/about#blogs (twitter.com/_/status/1522084820213321729)
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@schnarfed ↩️ In case it helps, one proof of concept example here is how Bridgy adds webmention support to Tumblr, both incoming and outgoing: https://brid.gy/about#blogs (twitter.com/_/status/1522084820213321729)
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[snarfed] on the plus side, re the Twitter v2 API: "We are removing language in our Developer Policy that restricted how you build with Twitter’s core features, and limited the number of users you can support through your app...Specifically, we’ve removed terms that restricted replication of the Twitter experience, including Twitter’s core features"
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[snarfed] https://twittercommunity.com/t/ushering-in-a-new-era-for-the-twitter-developer-platform-with-the-twitter-api-v2/162087#todays-launch-2=
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Can you run known with nginx?
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sknebel https://indieweb.org/Known#Setup_Known_on_nginx ;)
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sknebel (might be outdated of course, but a starting point)
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I got it working but have an error... 😦
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> > During inheritance of SessionHandlerInterface: Uncaught ArgumentCountError: Too few arguments to function Idno\Core\Logging::Idno\Core\{closure}(), 4 passed in /var/www/known/vendor/symfony/http-foundation/Session/Storage/Handler/AbstractSessionHandler.php on line 23 and exactly 5 expected in /var/www/known/Idno/Core/Logging.php:40
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aaronpk Sounds like a version of a dependency isn't compatible with the version of php
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Does Known have a php version requirement?
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I'm using the most up to date version of PHP because that's what the breakfastandcoffee wiki uses.
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aaronpk That probably caused a newer version of Symfony to be installed and now Known needs to update to the new Symfony APIs
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Ah, php7.4 looks to work fine.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Hm. Known is loading all assets from 127.0.0.1 (the proxy pass)
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aaronpk Probably need to set a header in nginx I forget what it's called
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aaronpk forwarded for maybe?
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sknebel no, thats the client IP
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I haven't seen this before with nginx.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> sknebel Any tips?
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aaronpk Try this `proxy_set_header X-Forwarded-For $remote_addr;`
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callym[m] In the indieauth spec, it says
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callym[m] > If a client wishes to use a redirect URL that has a different host than their client_id, or if the redirect URL uses a custom scheme (such as when the client is a native application), then the client will need to explicitly list those redirect URLs so that authorization endpoints can be sure it is safe to redirect users there.
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callym[m] Does this mean `example.com` would need to list `redirect.example.com`, but not `example.com/redirect`?
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callym[m] * In the indieauth spec, it says
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callym[m] > If a client wishes to use a redirect URL that has a different host than their client\_id, or if the redirect URL uses a custom scheme (such as when the client is a native application), then the client will need to explicitly list those redirect URLs so that authorization endpoints can be sure it is safe to redirect users there.
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callym[m] Does this mean `example.com` would need to list `redirect.example.com`, but not `example.com/redirect`?
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callym[m] Or are subdomains fine too, and it's just `example.com` => `unrelated.com` that needs the explicit list
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> aaronpk Everything is returning a 404.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> http://jamesg.coffee/
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aaronpk callym[m]: subdomains are considered different domains too
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aaronpk capjamesg: is that only after adding the x forwarded for?
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callym[m] aaronpk: thanks! just wanted to make sure I'm doing validation right :D
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aaronpk I believe that's why that sentence says "different host" instead of "different domain"
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> aaronpk Both before and after.
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aaronpk then I have no idea :-)
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I configured the "url" config.ini value to my domain and that at least made the styles render.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> So I'm closer 😂
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> What does the "path" variable need to be?
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I have it working now.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I spoke too soon...
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> It's all up now!
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aaronpk Haha good job what an adventure
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sknebel capjamesg: blog post while you still remember ;)
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sknebel also, is it really a blog if the first post isnt about "how I installed/wrote my own/found/... a blogging system" ;)
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aaronpk 😅
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[tantek] sknebel++ lol
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Loqi sknebel has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (36 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] For the 'what should Tumblr inc do' list, should that go on /Tumblr or in the github repo I made? Issues seem like a possible approach, but a narrative of the different things we'd liek them to do and the benefits might suit the wiki page.
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[manton] [snarfed] That Twitter policy change is so welcome. I still might not do much with the API because I don’t want to get burned again, but… _finally_.
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[manton] Oh, that post is from last year. Wonder how I missed it.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> sknebel I spun up a new server, installed apache and php8.1, then used the composer installer to get everything going. I moved the files into the /var/www/known/ directory, made the requisite apache2.conf changes as per the installation process, and then I had a new blog. The key is that I spun up a new server. nginx and apache2 were conflicting on my main server and causing a lot of issues.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I should try and blog this. Even if it's just those two sentences until I have time to write something in more detail.
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[tantek] KevinMarks, on the /Tumblr page and I believe we have made similar sections for other sites or software
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sknebel capjamesg: ah, you did use apache now and not nginx
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> sknebel Yes, so this might not be as interesting. nginx was causing so many issues.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I really hope someone who uses Known + nginx documents how they got everything working.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Comparatively, the setup process with apache was a breeze.
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] looks like we have been using a section named "IndieWeb Friendly" to document existing IndieWeb support, pending/submitted IndieWeb support, and requests/proposals for more
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[tantek] even documented here: https://indieweb.org/expand_a_page#Common_Sections
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[KevinMarks] ah, that's good. I'll look at that. I think issues in a repo are good too, in the same way we use them for specs etc, and Echo agrees https://tech.lgbt/@chaosexanima/108249667736457514
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Loqi [echo ✨] @kevinmarks GitHub repo please! The issues I'm seeing in the repo are already great 💯
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[tantek] ^ yes, keep issues in the GH for broader reach/discussion since this is now a broader discussion across communities
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sknebel re twitter APIs: did I miss it or do they still not have an API for bookmarks?
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[tantek] the private bookmarks feature? do we even have documentation for it?
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Can you backfill bookmarks on Known?
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[snarfed] sknebel: v2 supports bookmarks, https://developer.twitter.com/en/docs/twitter-api/tweets/bookmarks/introduction
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[KevinMarks] You can backfill with micropub
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sknebel [snarfed]: oh good to know, thanks
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> [KevinMarks] Good point!
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> How do you make a Micropub request to Known?
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jacky wow that's not an explicit process lol
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jacky I just was checking the docs
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jacky guess it has its own API
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sknebel ?
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> https://jamesg.coffee/2022/i-have-just-backfilled-all-of-my
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Loqi [James' Coffee Blog] I have just backfilled all of my likes, bookmarks, and notes into Known. I haven’t made a decision yet but I am most likely going to use my Known instance here at jamesg.coffee from now on. #indieweb
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hs0ucy Known should be compatible with SQLite ;)
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[schmarty] Hahah that explains the wave of like webmentions I just received capjamesg 😅
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@edheil ↩️ Apparently not. I was hoping http://brid.gy would autopost but it didn't seem to, so I did it manually. Which.... was kinda silly... cause the wp post in question was redundant with an existing tweet (twitter.com/_/status/1522259842815209475)
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@edheil ↩️ All that indieweb stuff is still kind of baffling to me, and seems fragile. (What happens when hundreds of thousands of people start using http://brid.gy ?) (twitter.com/_/status/1522260056858836993)
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hs0ucy It's too bad we need gcloud to install a bridgy instance ...
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hs0ucy use a google service don't seems indieweb to me
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[KevinMarks] *sighs in webfinger* https://indieweb.social/@kevinmarks/108248951669787211
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Loqi [Kevin Marks] @Gargron I'm baffled that they (and you, come to that) still use webfinger instead of profile URLs
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jacky hs0ucy: why not?
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hs0ucy jacky: you refer to bridgy or Known?
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jacky bridgy
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jacky the implementation details don't really have to _dictate_ the indiewebness of a project
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jacky (and what would _really_ make something indiewebby? it running on a PC at home connected over duckdns?)
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hs0ucy If you are locked to a particular service how it can be Indie? it is a relationship of dependence, not independence
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jacky that depends heavily on your defintion of indie then
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jacky b/c it could also be coming from a want to do things but also not wanting to have to manage servers
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jacky if using GCP helps, then so be it
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jacky by that case, using GitHub for hosting, Verizon for Internet and GoDaddy for domains would also be anti-indie
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hs0ucy Yep, maybe i don't have the same definition as you
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jacky and that's okay!
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jacky that makes it more independent (each of us having our own lens into it but still being able to interop)
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jacky if that's not a true defintion of independence, then I don't know what is lol
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hs0ucy For me If I can host it in my basement with HP Mini 110, it's definitely Indie, otherwise i'm not so sure
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hs0ucy You can use a VPS ... It's a little bit less indie. there's a lot of degrees and gray areas I guess
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[snarfed] hs0ucy the indieweb community is generally focused on indie _web_, not indie hosting. the key parts of indieweb to us are 1) own and use your own domain, and 2) use tools that let you easily export and migrate your data
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[snarfed] indie/self hosting can also be great! just not nearly as high priority for us here specifically
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jacky (remembers the above for future use)
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[fluffy] There’s a bunch of “public good” services that members of the community run, such as webmention.io and so on, which are helpful transitional tools which make it easier to take the next step later without having to invest a huge amount of resources into getting started.
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[fluffy] Ideally by the time that brid.gy is running into scaling issues that make using it a concern, it’s because the indieweb is so well-established that we don’t really even need it anymore. 🙂
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jacky indeed :)
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hs0ucy [snarfed]: I get it, but when I read "Your content is yours" step 0 of this is still to avoid depositing your data on someone else's computer.
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Which of the various methods (manually, plugin(s), other) are you using? On fragility front, I'm not too worried as it is open source and has folks helping. It's also only a bridge as I can reply directly to your site. https://brid.gy/about#cost https://indieweb.org/Bridgy#Statistics (twitter.com/_/status/1522272153466552320)
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hs0ucy But I understand that this is not *necessarily* what is being promoted here.
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[snarfed] hs0ucy right, that step 0 isn't about whose computer, it's talking about control
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@edheil ↩️ and... it kind of looks like I have two different http://brid.gy accounts, one linking my twitter to my blog, the other linking my mastodon to my blog? Is that how it works/should work? (twitter.com/_/status/1522273017484791808)
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@edheil ↩️ OK, if you don't mind answering beginner questions, does it monitor my website (http://edheil.com) and look for new posts to post to mastodon & twitter, or do I have to log into http://brid.gy and post links myself? (Not Masto though, that's not working?) (twitter.com/_/status/1522272854120837121)
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hs0ucy [snarfed]: Ok, so it's like saying we're doing IndieRock but signing with a big record label ;P
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[snarfed] hs0ucy, your point is definitely well taken! lots of people here like and prefer self/indie hosting. that's great! we just don't make it a top priority or requirement for everyone's site and all of our tools. our priority is indie _web_, more than hosting
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[snarfed] the name was definitely a deliberate choice
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hs0ucy [snarfed]: I'm ok with that, I'm not trying to be pure... everyone has their own priorities and schedule
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jacky I getcha tho: hs0ucy
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jacky in an ideal world where self hosting is as simple as buying a game console, firing it up and playing stuff at home, I'd be all for it
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jacky it's not there yet tho
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jacky and I say this as someone with a homelab, TBs of space and a bunch of other stuff
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[fluffy] For what it’s worth, with brid.gy you’re not “depositing your data” elsewhere, it’s just acting as an adapter to convert mentions from a silo service (which you don’t own) to mentions on your webmention endpoint (which you very well could own). The only data that’s being “owned” externally is stuff that isn’t indie to begin with.
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[fluffy] Like you’re not relying on brid.gy to host your data, you’re still hosting your own site, and if you’re running your own webmention endpoint, you’re still in control of the data that brid.gy generates.
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[fluffy] It’s not an “indie rock” band on a major label, it’s an indie rock band whose website is being indexed by Google.
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[fluffy] Or maybe to keep the analogy all in the band space, it’s a groupie of th eindie rock band telling them about their writeup in Spin Magazine.
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hs0ucy :)
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jacky tests++
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Loqi tests has 2 karma over the last year
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@sukiletxe ↩️ https://brid.gy (twitter.com/_/status/1522288913951379459)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ The whole idea behind IndieWeb is that you can use your website to own all your content on a domain you own/control. You've got a site with webmentions set up, so we could be having this whole conversation from site to site. Instead, I'm choosing to [more] https://boffosocko.com/2022/05/05/55804567/ (twitter.com/_/status/1522293999007985664)
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jacky Does anyone have suggestions/ideas on how they handle cursor-based pagination with micropub?
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jacky I've been leaning on using dates but that doesn't really play with with limits and offsets
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jacky like if I did something like before=2022-04-05&limit=10&offset=10, showing a cursor to more items would just be repeating `before`
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jacky I guess more specifically, how can I make the `paging` field in Micropub work with some sort of cursor navigation
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jacky https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Additional_Filter_Parameters gives the closest answer
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jacky but I want to avoid exposing IDs to clients 🤔️
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jacky lol tbh I'm tempted to use URLs
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sknebel Wouldn't before+offset as a string be a useful cursor?
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sknebel Or am I misunderstanding the question?
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jacky nah you're on it
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jacky I'm trying to determine what would be a good value for the `before` part of `before+offset`
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jacky eh, I might just use IDs for now
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sknebel (I think my site nav does timestamp of post + it's id
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[snarfed] out of curiosity, why avoid exposing ids to clients?
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jacky tbh I have no good reason when I think of it
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jacky and it's not like those values would be 'saved' for pagination
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[snarfed] :thumbsup:
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jacky like if one wants the latest, it should query it without anything (or maybe specifying a `published` value for filtering)
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jacky IDs it is
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sknebel The timestamp allows recovery if the post with the Id gets deleted/moved - but inside micropib that sounds less needed
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jacky yup
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sknebel For websites I always want to support "what if someone had the tab open for months", because I do that too)
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[snarfed] seems like a reasonable failure mode, if the worst thing that happens is, paging is off
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jacky yeah
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jacky thanks for the rubber ducking y'all
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@BekoPharm ↩️ What's this? #Cloudfare breaking the web again? Good job. "Oooh, Linux, Hacker, Bad." Just like breaking #Webmentions eh? "Your request appears to be automated" No shit! (twitter.com/_/status/1522302305172865025)
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@BekoPharm ↩️ What's this? #CloudFlare breaking the web again? Good job. "Oooh, Linux, Hacker, Bad." Just like breaking #Webmention|s eh? "Your request appears to be automated" No shit! (Repost to fix rage typo in hashtag) (twitter.com/_/status/1522303229073276930)
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JSQ so if I have an ID set for a div, and I make a class that will be for 3x3x3 pictures. Can I set the box to be width:30%; height: 30% and that'll be the size of the boxes within that main div?
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JSQ I'm doing something wrong, here, because they all shrink... So my next question is do I use the row command for the divs inside that main one? Here is an example: https://www.squonks.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/layout-draft-3-1024x521.png
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JSQ ahhh, I misread a chapter
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JSQ nevermind
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