#dev 2022-09-30

2022-09-30 UTC
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@NoraDotCodes ↩️ i mean, i worked on irdest a few years back, i'm familiar - but all of that has massive network effect issues, often in both social and technical senses. RSS, webmentions, webfinger, and so forth are inroads that can be made without requiring ones users to flip their whole stack (twitter.com/_/status/1575643874222960640)
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jacky looks like there's a lot of work being done on making a standard around code forges https://f3.forgefriends.org/
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jacky tbh enough for some experimental overlap imo
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capjamesg What is the intended purpose of the algorithm on this page? https://indieweb.org/in-reply-to
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barnaby given a URL, get a list of URLs which it is replying to
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capjamesg [James_Van_Dyne] What do you think about dividing the IndieWeb Utils documentation into more pages?
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[James_Van_Dyne] Not a bad idea – I think it might make sense to group them by “theme”? webmentions, feeds etc.. ? maybe too coarse
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capjamesg That is a great idea. Want to take this on?
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capjamesg We have something like 15 functions in the Usage.rst file now :D
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capjamesg Some section ideas: Flask indieauth, discovery algorithms, webmentions, feeds, h-card
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[James_Van_Dyne] Sure. I can give it a go in the morning
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capjamesg https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1575588277700026368/photo/1
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@TechEmails Jack Dorsey texts Elon Musk March 26, 2022 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fd2dJ6cUcAABLh3.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1575588277700026368)
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@azzamsyawqi ↩️ Zach Leatherman and Max Böck use Webmention and interact on Twitter with the readers. I did the same. (twitter.com/_/status/1575813419743444993)
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@SaraSoueidan ↩️ But I don't want to use Twitter for the interactions. The point of adding comments is to move the conversation from Twitter to the site. And tbh I'm not a fan of how webmentions are listed under blog posts. (twitter.com/_/status/1575839350150922246)
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@desmondrivet ↩️ I'm confused by the webmention part of this statement. Do you not have control over how webmentions are displayed under your blog posts? (twitter.com/_/status/1575842134284013569)
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@desmondrivet ↩️ Ah, fair enough. It's definitely harder to construct a coherent thread of conversation with webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1575845735282655232)
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[snarfed] Expanded on the Bridgy Publish Micropub docs and added an example: https://brid.gy/about#micropub
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aaronpk [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (48 in all channels)
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barnaby [snarfed]: looks good, that’s much clearer! Is the d=h-entry parameter something bridgy-specific, or should it be h=entry? https://micropub.spec.indieweb.org/#create-p-4
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[snarfed] Ah, thanks for the catch! Just a typo, will fix
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[manton] Very cool [snarfed]. Makes me wonder if I should hook up Bridgy Publish as an option in Micro.blog’s cross-posting… Like if you don’t like the way Micro.blog posts to Twitter, Mastodon, etc. you just send it through Bridgy instead. 🤔
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[manton] Should Bridgy support IndieAuth so it’s easier for apps to help users get a token?
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aaronpk how does that help?
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aaronpk right now you go to brid.gy, click the twitter button, enable publish, then get your token
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[manton] I was thinking if an app wanted to send Micropub requests to Bridgy. It would need a token for Bridgy itself, and then Bridgy forwards the request on to whatever service is configured.
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[manton] Unless I’m confused about how this is structured.
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aaronpk there is only one token, the token generated by bridgy
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[manton] Right. Sorry, when I said “forwarded” that wasn’t really the right word to use.
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aaronpk the indieauth tie-in could be that bridgy is also an indieauth profile URL, so if micro.blog had a way to add a syndication option from a UI, you'd type in brid.gy and then micro.blog would do an indieauth flow to get the token from bridgy.
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aaronpk that would save the step of the user manually copying the token over
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[manton] Yep, that’s exactly what I meant.
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[manton] Just saving the copy/paste.
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aaronpk does micro.blog already do that?
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[manton] Not really. There’s no external syndication options like that. Just the built-in services that Micro.blog is hardcoded to support (Twitter, Mastodon, LinkedIn, Tumblr, etc, etc.)
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[manton] Was thinking this might be an excuse to extend it. Haven’t really thought it all the way through, though.
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aaronpk it'd defintely be possible
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aaronpk my site actually works like that when i want to go add a new syndication destiation
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[snarfed] thanks for the kind words [manton]!
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[snarfed] and glad to hear the interest! I wonder if Bridgy Publish in micro.blog would be that big a win though. the main effort and value is 1) converting mf2 to silo APIs and 2) keeping all the API code up to date
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[snarfed] you already have a structured representation of posts, so 1 doesn't really help you, and you're already doing 2
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[snarfed] I doubt there's a big difference between Bridgy Publish and micro.blog behavior, so I don't know if the option would be worth the user confusion
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[schmarty] time to compare these two implementations and identify commonalities to make them interchangeable building blocks?? 😈
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[snarfed] only if micro.blog wanted to expose its as a standalone service, which...I probably wouldn't do if I was [manton]
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[hollie] My beginner question - The last time I was uploading files, it was 2009 or so. The process was: write the html/css, then upload via FTP. Refresh your browser (sometimes wait a few minutes) and there it was. I'm using SiteGround right now, and the changes never show up. I just asked their Support, and he said you have to go into your SiteGround website tools and "flush the dynamic cache" (the what now?), and that I would have to do
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[hollie] this whenever I made any changes at all.
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[hollie] SiteGround won't keep me logged in despite me checking that box every single time, which means the process for just tinkering with one simple web page and seeing if my wee little beginner CSS adjustment actually worked is now like a half minute of clicking. Is this a SiteGround problem? Is this an I'm-in-my-late-forties-and-need-to-adjust problem? Is the Dynamic Cache something I can jettison without penalty, like an appendix?
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gRegor [hollie], are you uploading using FTP software, or is it a web-based upload like cPanel?
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gRegor I'm not familiar with SiteGround, but I found this: https://www.siteground.com/kb/clear-site-cache/
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gRegor While you're tweaking things, you might want to disable cache temporarily so you don't have to keep clearing the cache: https://www.siteground.com/kb/disable-dynamic-caching-website/
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gRegor what is siteground?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "siteground" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "siteground is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[hollie] Uploading vis Transmit. I checked out the disabling page - it says it's for WordPress files? I'm just hand-coding these super basic HTML files. Is that the same?
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gRegor There's a second section on there for non-WordPress sites https://www.siteground.com/kb/disable-dynamic-caching-website/#Disable_the_cache_on_a_non-WordPress_website
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[hollie] Oh thank you! I just learned about the .htaccess file so I can do this. Woot! Lol now I just need to look up what dynamic caching even is....
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Loqi 😊
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angelo gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 14 karma in this channel over the last year (69 in all channels)
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gRegor Looks like a few lines in the .htaccess file, which is probably in the web root directory (/public_html often)
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gRegor That would *probably* would apply to any files, WordPress or not, but their recommendation for WordPress sites is their specific plugin, which probably handles whatever WP magic is necessary :)
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[hollie] If I end up trying WordPress again I'm going to do ClassicPress. I'm not sure if that means I can still use any other plug-ins?
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GWG They should all be compatible... I should check again... but last report they were.
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[hollie] This code that I'm putting in -
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[hollie] ```<IfModule mod_headers.c>
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[hollie] Header set Cache-Control "private"
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[hollie] </IfModule>```
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[hollie] What is it? As in, a language? It's for a web server, yes?
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gRegor Their directory lists plugins made specifically for ClassicPress, or Works with ClassicPress https://directory.classicpress.net/plugins
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[hollie] Oh nice!
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GWG I have to register mine...ah procrastination
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gRegor [hollie], Yeah, it's basically telling the web server to add a cache-control header to each request
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GWG So it's configuration language
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gRegor I'm actually still a bit confused why this would be needed for a brand new file to load, but :shrug: web hosting is weird sometimes (oftentimes) haha
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[manton] [snarfed] Thanks for your thoughts… I think part of me wishes I wasn’t in the POSSE platform game, so I’m always keeping an eye out for other options. 🙂 But for now probably doesn’t make sense for me to change anything.
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GWG Hello, [manton]
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GWG [manton]: How are the checkins going?
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[snarfed] [manton] yup, understood. POSSE vs backfeed is an interesting ownership split for you all right now. and arguably for many other IndieWeb platforms. backfeed is harder, there are barely any other implementations. I wish there were more!
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[manton] @GWG Hey! I’m about to get back into it. I posted an announcement to my blog and it was really well-received… Need to write some more code. https://www.manton.org/2022/09/26/introducing-meridian.html
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GWG Missed that, but was busy that day
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[manton] [snarfed] Backfeed is something I probably won’t be tackling. I agree there should be more options for it, though.
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The challenge with the non-web things like freenet and dat/hypercore is linkability; if you can define a URL format and use HTML+microformats, you could bridge back and forth with webmentions, but you need a URL resolver/ protocol gateway too. (twitter.com/_/status/1575984319335497728)
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gRegor Updating old composer dependencies gets so confusing sometimes
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gRegor Can't do this because [four levels down] requires something old
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gRegor Might just delete the .lock and try a fresh install