#dev 2022-10-13

2022-10-13 UTC
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capjamesg How often are the JSON keys of the indieauth-metadata endpoint going to change?
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@pfefferle "What is a webmention and how do I use it in WordPress?" by @hagengraf #DEVCommunity https://dev.to/ionos/what-is-a-webmention-and-how-do-i-use-it-in-wordpress-35id (twitter.com/_/status/1580493813097074688)
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@ArnaudLigny ↩️ Jette un œil au compte de @nhoizey : il cross-poste ses tweets sur son site Web + intégrations des webmentions. (twitter.com/_/status/1580513180291211268)
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@nezirzahirovic A Ruby gem for sending Webmention notifications. (from 28/05/2020) #ruby #rubyonrails #code #programming #blog #developer #programmer #coding https://www.rubyonrails.ba/single/a-ruby-gem-for-sending-webmention-notifications (twitter.com/_/status/1580556557355724806)
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AramZ-S[m] capjamesg Hey, did you open source your hovercard.js stuff individually or is it just in your blog's GitHub? You didn't link but I'd be interested in looking at the code and potentially adapting it to my own use.
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capjamesg AramZ-S[m] https://github.com/capjamesg/hovercard.js/
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capjamesg Let me know if you have any questions!
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capjamesg Is Salmention still relevant?
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[tantek] The use-cases certainly are! And no one has proposed another way of solving them
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capjamesg GWG You wouldn't happen to know this: "How often are the JSON keys of the indieauth-metadata endpoint going to change?"
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capjamesg I built an object in IndieWeb Utils that carries all of the values in the spec.
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capjamesg The object only contains items in the spec and doesn't support arbitrary values.
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capjamesg I wondered if this would be an issue for implementors.
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capjamesg I can expose a public interface to just return the indieauth-metadata contents I suppose, too.
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barnaby IMO it’s always worth letting the library consumer get the raw data in cases like this
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capjamesg The code is sort of a mess of repetition: https://github.com/capjamesg/indieweb-utils/blob/f1f72ee963c7434d3e50cec72fa249a79679dd3e/src/indieweb_utils/indieauth/header_discovery.py
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barnaby the keys are based on the OAuth server metadata spec https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8414 so I’d imagine the existing ones not likely to change very often, but there could be new ones
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capjamesg The issue is new keys would require an additional release to add.
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capjamesg Which is why I wonder if this is a rare case where the library should return the raw data like you said barnaby.
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barnaby it’s probably at least worth going through the list of keys and supporting any which seem like they might be relevant to indieauth at some point https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8414#section-2
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barnaby perhaps, or in addition to parsed/validated values
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capjamesg As a developer would you prefer the raw data or an object barnaby?
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barnaby capjamesg: briefly glancing through that code, I’d add a “raw_server_metadata” key to the indieauthendpoints dataclass and put the raw values there in case people want to look for them
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capjamesg Yes!
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barnaby that way users get the luxury of named, type-hinted values for things we expect, but can always access the raw data if they need it
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@ton_zylstra ↩️ wrt to posting RSS to http://micro.blog and not seeing the resulting interaction: http://micro.blog does webmentions, meaning my blogposts get pingbacks when someone on http://micro.blog responds to it there. My replies go back there too with webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/1580594377084108806)
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[tantek] what is GruberVille?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GruberVille" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "GruberVille is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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GWG They could theoretically change anytime.. but the existing ones won't... just new things could be added
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aaronpk oh boy, Laravel is on version 9 now, and Meetable is on 7. wonder if I should spend a day upgrading now so it doesn't get too far out of date
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aaronpk my own website is on an even older version of Laravel and i'm a bit terrified to even attempt to update it :-/
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barnaby I’ve never used laravel, is it usually a pain to upgrade to new versions?
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aaronpk you have to carefully read the release notes because they keep changing how various internal things work
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aaronpk but they do provide good notes https://laravel.com/docs/9.x/upgrade
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aaronpk i also think they went through a rough transition from 5 to 6 but things have been smoother now
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barnaby wow those are some thorough upgrade docs
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[marksuth] I’ve gone through the process of upgrading a number of Laravel sites recently, the jump from 7 to 9 isn’t that painful, I think there was 1 or 2 lines that needing adjusting in serviceproviders where things had been replaced but otherwise it was fairly smooth
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barnaby aaronpk: is it easy for you to set up a duplicate of your site on a subdomain to try the migration there?
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aaronpk yeah i have a local dev copy of the site
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gRegor Interesting, Patreon apparently 403's Internet Archive requests for posts, even if it's a public post.
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sknebel do other archives like archive.ph work?
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gRegor tries
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gRegor "#3009 in queue."
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gRegor grabs a coffee :)
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[manton] I didn’t know about archive.ph… Love the Internet Archive but that’s great to have some other folks doing this. Wonder how big they can scale?
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gRegor I thought there were a couple but looks like they're aliases of archive.ph (archive.today and archive.is)
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[manton] Kind of inspires me to make my archiver more available… Currently only used for Micro.blog bookmarks but I always wanted to open it up. With limits. I can’t be the Internet Archive. 🙂
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[tantek] what is indie archive
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Loqi IndieArchive is a project to collaboratively grow an archival copy of pages replied to (possibly also mentioned) in indie web posts https://indieweb.org/indie-archive
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[tantek] [manton] ^ you might be interested in that, in the Indie but not trying to be Internet Archive way
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[manton] Thanks. I should probably add a few notes to that wiki page about what I’m doing too.
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[manton] Internet Archive will always be the gold standard of nearly everything, but I like the idea of several (or more) smaller archives.
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[tantek] agreed. smaller, perhaps more focused archives can help fill the holes
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[tantek] capjamesg, you were asking about salmentions. The recent screenshot uploaded by gRegor actually shows a visualization of a few salmentions: https://indieweb.org/File:Twitter-replies-heart-by-author-2022-10-13.png
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[tantek] those ":white_heart: by author" reactions are 2nd order, that is they are in-reply to comments which are then in-reply to the top level post. Displaying that 2nd order response on a permalink of the original post demonstrates a clear use-case for salmentions (webmentions being propagated further upstream as it were)
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capjamesg [tantek] Today is the day I think I finally got my head around Salmentions.
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capjamesg The concept previously would not register in my mind.
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capjamesg I was wondering if indieweb-utils could do anything here but it seems pretty implementation specific?
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[snarfed] yup, implementation specific. eg we tried to do it in Bridgy but couldn't ever really figure out what exactly to do. https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/458
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Loqi [voxpelli] #458 figure out how to interoperate with salmentions
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capjamesg Yeah.
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capjamesg I see the use case.
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capjamesg But a difficult problem :D
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aaronpk initial upgrade of meetable to laravel 9 went smooth. i suspect there may be some issues with the more obscure features though
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angelo capjamesg get_post(permalink, upstream=1) that gets the post at permalink but also recursively fetches responses `upstream` levels deep and collapses all of the interesting bits into a dict
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capjamesg Upstream as in the post to which a reply is replying?
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capjamesg angelo That feels like a great function to have.
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angelo upstream to imply salmentions (salmon swimming upstream)
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capjamesg But wait.
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capjamesg Is that bottom up or top down?
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capjamesg Ah that's clever.
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capjamesg I get it now!
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capjamesg So send a webmention from R1 (R = reply) to R2, then R2 to R3, etc.?
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capjamesg That's the Salmention sending part.
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capjamesg Then parsing would be getting all the upstream info into a dictionary?
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angelo hm the like of the reply here would trigger a mention to the reply which would trigger a mention to the original post.. that'd be the upstream part. i suppose this reverse discovery would be downstream.
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angelo maybe just use `depth=1`.. so the original author here would need to only fetch the reply (which would have the like on it). however a reader that's fetching the original post would have to fetch one level deeper `depth=2`.
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