#dev 2022-11-17

2022-11-17 UTC
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[snarfed] hah, Mastodon borrows Bridgy's hack of using URL fragments for ids of objects without permalinks, eg https://indieweb.social/users/snarfed#likes/118568
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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barnaby isn’t that a capital-S Semantic Web thing too? that the fragmentless URL refers to a “document” and the fragment to a “resource” or something
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aaronpk noooo
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barnaby (not an endorsement, just to be clear! just an observation)
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[tantek] httprange14--
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Loqi httprange14 has -1 karma over the last year
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[jacky] is curious about that concept mainly because he doesn't like it
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[snarfed] shades of https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/681, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/445
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Loqi [OliverJAsh] #681 backfeed: support hash/fragment permalinks to entries inside feeds
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barnaby [jacky]: presumably there are fragment URLs for the concepts of not liking and curiosity which you could use to write a triple in a turtle document to put your sentiments towards the Semantic Web on the Semantic Web
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[tantek] homer-back-into-bushes.gif
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barnaby I know just enough about the Semantic Web to make stupid jokes like that about it, which IMO is the ideal amount to know about the Semantic Web
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[jacky] ngl I understood 40% of that which is more than I expected lol
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[jacky] re: github https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/5720#discussioncomment-4161988
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jamietanna what's the trick to allow a single page to have multiple IDs, referrable by fragments?
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jamietanna i.e. so I can use a single page to put in multiple `h-entry`s to be Webmention'd
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jamietanna Is it just i.e. `<article class="h-entry" id="0">`
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jamietanna (I'm trying to get `u-follow-of`s working)
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jamietanna I'm also seeing 502s back when trying to send the mentions hmm - i.e. from https://blogroll.jvt.me/contacts/carol/
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[jamietanna] Ah is it that I need to add a `u-url` to the `h-entry` and include the fragment perhaps?
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jamietanna snarfed when you're around I'd appreciate a hand with trying to get my follows working :D Looking at https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F2022%2F11%2Ffollowed-anthony-ciccarello%2F vs https://php.microformats.io/?url=https://blogroll.jvt.me/contacts/carol/ I think I've got the markup right, just trying to work out why Bridgy Fed isn't happy
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jamietanna ```curl https://fed.brid.gy/webmention -d 'source=https://blogroll.jvt.me/contacts/carol/#2' -d target=https://fed.brid.gy -v
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jamietanna ```
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Loqi [gRegor Morrill] Followed Anthony Ciccarello on toot.cafe
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jamietanna shows it may only be picking up the first h-entry on the page?
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[snarfed] jamietanna yup, fragment identifiers aren't supported right now
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[jamietanna] That explains it 😁 is the best thing to do to have them on separate pages? Or is there anything I can do to contribute it over the line?
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[snarfed] Sure! I'd happily accept a PR
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[snarfed] Here's how we added it to Bridgy a while ago: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/commit/f760c0d10e4d28a84585dbbff259eff42466e119
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[snarfed] Notably the change to fetch_mf2 in webmention.py
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[snarfed] and its call in publish.py
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[jacky] so this is super bare bones but this is what I'm thinking a dashboard for a IndieAuth provider _could_ look like https://small-glitter-5008.fly.dev/dashboard
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[jacky] it feels "advanced" looking (with a lot of jargon very visible) but I'd be open to rephrasing and the like
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[jacky] i.e.: I'm going to change "to enable IndieAuth" to be "to sign in across the Web"
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[Murray] ^ that feels like a particularly good change, like that phrasing a lot 🙂
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[schmarty] jacky++ this is neat! looking at it i have lots of questions, haha
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Loqi jacky has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (81 in all channels)
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[jacky] please ask them all
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[schmarty] slack is fighting my attempts to number questions inline 🙈
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[schmarty] first: i can't figure out what "classic IndieAuth" means compared to "using Sele"? two: I think I understand tickets but I don't know what it would mean to "protect a URL"? last up: being able to turn "auto-approval" on suggests that there is a moderation queue or something by default?
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[jamietanna] Thanks snarfed, will have a look this evening ☺
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[jacky] ahh yeah see all good questions
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[jacky] 1. Classic indieauth would be the two endpoint approach versus the new IAM
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[jacky] 2. I'm assuming here that TicketAuth is used to 'protect' URLs in the sense that without a token, they'd throw back a 401. Sele could poke that, see if it's asking for a ticket and if it recognized it as a `realm` value for a stored ticket, it could 'confirm' that the URL is protected by that ticket
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[jacky] 3. Auto-approvals is kinda based on a TOFU-esque approach for apps (mainly my idea was that if you sign into an app once a day for a week), after the next week, if you do sign in again with it, it'll auto-approve it
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[jacky] Does that help answer that [schmarty]? Very good questions (and I'll clean up this page to reflect that as best as I can)
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[schmarty] oh interesting! that helps, thanks!
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[schmarty] so "classic indieauth" would publish the old authorization_endpoint and token_endpoint rels? seems like that would be a kind of check box with a prompt to turn it on only if you're having issues with "older" Micropub clients?
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[jacky] Yup!
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sknebel I think the "classic" I'd call backwards-compatbility or legacy-something
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[jacky] sknebel++ good idea, I'll rename it to that
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Loqi sknebel has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
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[schmarty] is there something to be done with TicketAuth tickets if there are no URLs protected by TicketAuth? like i guess i don't know why i'd want to issue them before i start protecting URLs.
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[schmarty] and last up - setting auto-approve on clients to skip the approval screen is interesting and neat!
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[jacky] Ah that's something I haven't finished yet - so this is a bit of a janky idea and meant to give people a way to sign in if they own a Web presence or are something from a different place (like newsletter subscribers, specifically) so if there's content that's specific for them to access, they can automatically gain it
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[jacky] That bit is actually more involved and part of what I'm hoping could be the "self identify and you can see what I say and what I say you can see can change without you knowing" kind of situation (like items in a feed)
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[jacky] I _might_ leave that out for now tbh
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[timothy_chambe] An article on #POSSE to Mastodon -- Bridgly gets a shout out: https://adactio.com/journal/19645
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aaronpk hey [timothy_chambe] did you see your pings in the main channel and #indieweb-chat yesterday?
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[snarfed] anyone know of a generic CSS stylesheet for microformats2? searches aren't finding much yet
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barnaby we came to the conclusion that it’s generally not a good idea to use mf2 classnames as styling hooks, not sure if it’s written up anywhere but that would explain why you can’t find anything
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[snarfed] right, in general yes
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barnaby the exception would be if you just want to quickly highlight which elements are considered for mf2 parsing, in which case listing all the classnames you can think of and adding border: 1px solid red; is a good start ;)
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[snarfed] here, I'm looking for something for a generic h-feed that will primarily be consumed by readers, that I'd like to style to be just barely reasonable in browsers
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[snarfed] not for an acutal web site
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barnaby ah, for styling bridgy proxy pages?
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[snarfed] bridgy fed, but yes
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[snarfed] (bridgy proxy pages redirect to the silo post)
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[KevinMarks] Unmung.com has one a bit like that
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[KevinMarks] On the feed to h-feed thing
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[KevinMarks] https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/blob/master/styles/hfeed.css
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[snarfed] thanks [KevinMarks]!
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[KevinMarks] Possibly more minimal than you need, but should help with fatwigoo h-card images
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[KevinMarks] This is similar but does simple column/card trickery https://github.com/kevinmarks/unmung/blob/master/styles/mastoview.css
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[tantek] note the difference in @domain@domain vs user@domain in the link text on this Mastodon permalink, as well as the Loqi summary in this: https://w3c.social/@w3c/109359919350904996
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Loqi [World Wide Web Consortium] Ooh, they are on the Fediverse too! Shout out to the other co-chair of the Social Web working group @tantek.com , and the co-chair of the Social Web incubator community group and contributor to several Social Web specs spec @aaronpk !Everyone who dir...
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barnaby I don’t have anything to hand but maybe you could adapt the monocle preview styles https://monocle.p3k.io/preview
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barnaby ah you found something, nice
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[aciccarello] Do <a href="link">other text</a> URLs posted via bridgy-fed retain their links when shown in Mastodon or are those stripped?
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[snarfed] BF preserves HTML in the AS2 activities it federates, but it's up to recipients like Mastodon to handle it
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[aciccarello] Right, I knew it was sent in the federation requests, but was wondering if anyone had seen how Mastodon handles it
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[snarfed] looks like Mastodon renders it ok, eg https://indieweb.social/@snarfed.org@snarfed.org/109327939703730432 (only renders in Mastodon if you're logged into indieweb.social)
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sknebel aw, github is stripping rel-values from their "profile readme" thing
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sknebel so you cant use that as a workaround for extra rel=mes
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[tantek] my point with that example was that using @domain@domain does a better job of identifying you by your domain identity than user@domain
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[snarfed] true, since Mastodon hides instances in post text, and you have to hover to see them
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[manton] I’ve been wondering if I should expand Mastodon names in some cases… Like if someone had [manton]@otherinstance.com, it would currently show up as just [manton] in my timeline. Confusing. Maybe should be dynamically changed to something like “[manton]@…” at least.
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[snarfed] Mastodon itself has the same problem, I'm sure there's a lot of public conversation in some issue around how/why they chose this
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[snarfed] probably balance of readability and hover discoverability
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[manton] Yeah. I guess it fits with the idea that you might be mostly interacting with people on your local instance.
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[manton] Of course, I really wish they hadn’t chosen email-style identifiers… Sigh.
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[tantek] ^
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[tantek] [manton] I think your suggestion is a very good one of "@user@…" for folks *at* other instances. for people who *are* other instances (@domain@domain), the "@domain" is likely sufficient
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[tantek] I don't like the potentially "insular" aspect of an assumption like "you might be mostly interacting with people on your local instance" (not saying you're saying that [manton], just recognizing that yes that's an implied thing and not great)
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[manton] Agreed. Yeah, I’ve always preferred “@domain” and nothing else. For example, on M.b you can @-mention domain names to send a Webmention to them, etc.
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[manton] Maybe in Mastodon/ActivityPub there could be a way to say “this is a single user instance”. Then it could collapse to @domain.
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[manton] Some people are firing up their own Mastodon servers with 1 person, and @onlyme@domain just isn’t necessary.
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[aciccarello] [snarfed] I'm getting a 502 when trying to send a webmention to bridgy fed. It's getting a "request not signed" error accessing the post I'm replying to.
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[aciccarello] https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/16PwLjFMbpgr36gEoQ/details
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[snarfed] [aciccarello] ugh thx, looking
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[aciccarello] I should look into opening a PR to add that documentation
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[snarfed] that types.pl instance isn't behaving
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[snarfed] when BF tries to fetch the post you're replying to as AS2, types.pl returns 401 "request not signed"
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[snarfed] eg curl -H 'Accept: application/activity+json' -v https://types.pl/@abnv/109360439631118847
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sknebel thats a config switch on mastodon, I think pleroma might require it always
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sknebel if set, it requires fetches of resources to be signed by an actor that has access to them
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sknebel (so your "isn't behaving" is "has feature for more security turned on" on the other side :D)
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[snarfed] sknebel thanks! Disappointing feature if it applies to public resources
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sknebel for reply etc you know which user to use at least
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sknebel (which also will work if its followers-only post being replied to etc. for public stuff like profiles instances afaik use a "service" account)
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[snarfed] Thanks
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[snarfed] I plan to limit Bridgy Fed to only fully public data right now, like normal Bridgy
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sknebel although I'm not sure if bridgy fed is setup to keep followers-only posts private and should interact with them
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sknebel yeah
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[snarfed] [aciccarello] mind filing an issue?
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[aciccarello] The post itself is public. I assume Mastodon has that feature to allow blocking particular people right?
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[jacky] Perhaps!
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sknebel and instances, yeah
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sknebel https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/9849 / https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/11269
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[aciccarello] Writing up an issue now
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Loqi [kaniini] #9849 Authenticated object fetches
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[aciccarello] Thanks for the information sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (38 in all channels)
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[aciccarello] https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/291
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[snarfed] thanks for all the details!
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Loqi [aciccarello] #291 Add signature when replying to posts
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gRegor I just got a similar error trying a follow: 401 Client Error: Unauthorized for url: https://tilde.zone/users/joeld/inbox ; Unable to fetch key JSON at https://fed.brid.gy/gregorlove.com
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gRegor Want me to add to that issue or is it different?
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[snarfed] looks different: https://fed.brid.gy/log?start_time=1668718744&key=https://gregorlove.com/2022/11/followed-joel-d/%20https://tilde.zone/@joeld&module=
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[snarfed] looks transient, maybe try again?
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gRegor Same result
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gRegor ooh just saw the HTML/Atom/RSS feed links. Nice
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[snarfed] 🤷 we're sending tilde.zone a Follow, and it's responding "401 Unable to fetch key JSON at https://fed.brid.gy/gregorlove.com" , but that URL is serving fine
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Loqi gRegor Morrill
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[snarfed] yes! just launched timeline feeds on Bridgy Fed, for posts from fediverse accounts you follow. h-feed, Atom, RSS. links on user pages, eg https://fed.brid.gy/user/snarfed.org
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gRegor I'll wait a while and try again
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[KevinMarks] https://tilde.zone/@ftrain/109357462276767829
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Loqi [Paul Ford] I want to syndicate a very simple blog to the Fediverse, so I'm reading the docs and came across this line: "Your web server should then send Bridgy Fed a webmention, which it will translate to a Salmon slap or ActivityPub activity and forward to the...
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk [snarfed]: given that ostatus is basically ripped out of mastodon, maybe it makes sense to at least update the docs to not reference it anymore?
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barnaby BF does in theory federate to other services via ostatus though, right?
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barnaby even if by now the vast majority of traffic is probably to mastodon
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[jamietanna] [snarfed] I'd hoped that https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/pull/292 would be the shortest path to getting it working 😄 But unfortunately it isn't - seems to be correctly determining the fragment'd post, but not sure why it's not able to save it
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gRegor Yeah, I think there's a BF github issue about removing it
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Loqi [jamietanna] #292 Allow fragment URLs to be usable
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[jamietanna] Ooh snarfed++ for Fediverse following feeds! With ☝ in place, and some other work I'm doing I'm trying to have a Microsub channel per person, which will include all the platforms a given person is on, but super handy to get an "everything" view too 😄
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aaronpk i'm not even suggesting removing the feature, just removing the docs
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[snarfed] aaronpk yes! big docs revamp coming soon
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[snarfed] also https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/282
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Loqi [snarfed] #282 Drop OStatus?
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aaronpk nice
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[jamietanna] Ah snarfed think I found it 🙂
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[jamietanna] Hmm onto another issue. I'll have to carry on with this tomorrow
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[snarfed] jamietanna++ thanks for working on this!
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Loqi jamietanna has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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[snarfed] also, embarrassing that the first thing of mine Paul Ford sees (maybe) is Bridgy Fed, since it's so rougher than eg normal Bridgy
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aaronpk heh
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[snarfed] how do you vote in a Mastodon poll on a remote instance? eg https://tech.lgbt/@nelson/109356365933716361 . other interactions (eg like) pop up a remote login UI, but not polls
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sknebel look at the post through your local instance (the entire popup thing is going away afaik - IMHO a mistake, but *shrug*)
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sknebel easiest way is dropping the link in the search box
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[snarfed] oh right, thx sknebel
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[snarfed] and we'd need to figure out https://indieweb.org/poll before I could implement this on BF 😆
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