#dev 2022-12-14
2022-12-14 UTC
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IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33975082
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33977992
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Loqi [preview] [askhan] Shout out to the h-feed / h-entry microformat https://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed, sadly underutilized but an extremely easy way to make the web much more syndicable.
They're comprised of standardized CSS class names to be inserted into HTML and ena...
# [snarfed]2 just released the first version of https://github.com/snarfed/lexrpc, key building block on the way to an IndieWeb / AT Protocol bridge, maybe Bridgy AT 😁. sadly not really indieweb related yet, otherwise I'd add it to the gift calendar
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[schmarty] snarfed++ wow!
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# Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] Always interesting when two related yet unconnected posts pass through the feed nearby https://infosec.exchange/@atax1a/109400028861061670 https://blog.glyph.im/2022/12/potato-programming.html
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# [schmarty] this starts as an interesting dive into podcasting and how websub scales with lots of subscriptions and then someone runs up from the back of the bus and yanks the steering wheel and it goes off a bridge
# [schmarty] the violent metaphor wasn't enough??
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[KevinMarks] So it's weblogs.com again with a added blockchain sprinkles?
# [KevinMarks] Or pingomatic?
# [KevinMarks] I suppose you could do a Certificate Transparency model for blog pings, maybe thats what this is attempting
# [schmarty] KevinMarks: Certificate Transparency is what i was thinking. they just chose a pre-existing blockchain rather than trying to set up their own CT infrastructure.
# [KevinMarks] CT is fully open source, the backend stuff is called Trillian
# [schmarty] it's a proof-of-concept that works. and i am annoyed that i think maybe it is actually a good use case for a distributed ledger??
# [KevinMarks] Well, there were at least two Trillian's in the hitchhikers universe
# [schmarty] 😏
# [KevinMarks] Could be worse, they could have called it Lintilla
# [KevinMarks] Though Lintilla is maybe a better name for ActivityPub, given the number of copies it makes, and the corresponding delete messages.
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aaronpk okay, indieauth is on the record now https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/oauth/2mF0x8CWJdJSJqxFxBg1hsdKXjo/
# [schmarty] aaronpk++
# [schmarty] good stuff!
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# cambridgeport90[ I must have missed the big update from earlier in the week,though I keep hearing about administrators asking if anybody knows what to do when they start getting requests from law enforcement and what not.
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# [KevinMarks] Right, the problem with the weblogs.com / pingomatic model is that they fill up with spammers that no-one subscribes to. The resubscribe part of WebSub was designed to have that purgative effect rather than the "number go up" chasing that makes places reluctant to delete the spam.
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petermolnar so, Xin: my generic problem with IPFS is that *someone* has to run an active node for the content to be accessible. Yes, it can be on my homeserver, but so can my current website, and, therefore, I'm not sure what I'd be gaining with it.
# Xin So we made an all-in-one app, it can build, host, follow websites.
# Xin If you used IPFS before, you know it's a ton of command line keystrokes. We wrapped it with a complete macOS GUI.
# Xin The app has a built-in IPFS node.
# petermolnar right, and when the laptop lid is closed, the website is off then, correct?
# Xin You can build a blog with the app, then the app publishes the site to IPFS automatically. You can use the app to follow other websites running on IPFS+ENS too.
# Xin If there are other people followed you, then your website will have a Pin on their computers.
# petermolnar yeah, that's an if
# Xin We implemented a Follow feature in the app, so it can partially solve that problem.
# Xin Also, it can integrate with a pinning service like Filebase.com
# Xin About pinning service integration: https://planetable.eth.limo/DFF2DC03-9CFA-4F35-8227-B01E5407F1B2/
# Xin Here is a screenshot: https://i.v2ex.co/qI5g9gUT.png
# [KevinMarks] If you add the mf2 post markup and webmentions, that could help posts be preserved too - you may need to bridge through the http proxy for non-IPFS mentions, but presumably a reply via the bridge would also prin the IPFS version.
# [KevinMarks] this is also an interesting counter to the thundering herd problem recently seen with mastodon fetching previews
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# Xin Yes we will add these https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
# Xin Thanks a lot!
# [KevinMarks] would WenSub be adaptable to work with IPFS urls too?
# [KevinMarks] *WebSub?
# Xin A hub is a form of centralization.
# Xin However, IPFS has its own P2P PubSub mechanism, can be used to implement something similar
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# [coreagile] Hey all — I’m starting to build a new federated social networking app that I was considering having ActivityPub support, but was also interested in making it IndieWeb-first. Still learning about the formats and stuff — wondering if folks can offer ideas about how to test interoperability — I’m mostly interested in making sure baseline federation of content works. There are also some other interesting problems as this par
# [coreagile] social network has a “clubhouse-like” feel to it, so IndieAuth (which I just discovered in this chat!) seems to be important (to let people from other sites ‘listen in’ to the audio stream, or even participate), but I’m very confused about what happens when people from other sites want to post updates about the chat stream of that event (which I’m imagining are just comments on the event’s stream). Anyway — hoping
# [coreagile] folks are willing to help! The app will be completely open source, in case folks are interested — will post the link upon request!
# [schmarty] it sounds like it'd be worth looking at https://owncast.online/ as an example. it's a twitch-alike that supports activitypub for notification when streams go live and indieauth for signing in to the chat component.
# [KevinMarks] The way we do homebrew website club now is another example - see https://events.indieweb.org/ for the calendar model and individual events link to a shared live document per event which is made into a wiki page later
# [coreagile] Oh my.. I just realized this channel is being mirrored to IRC, and things I post in threads don’t show up in the log. I will stop using threads. Sorry about that!
# [schmarty] all good! thanks for double-checking! i forget if we have a mention of that at indieweb.org/discuss
# [schmarty] IRC is actually the "official" home of this chat, which is bridged to slack, matrix, and discord via separate bridges.
# [coreagile] Ah good point!
# [coreagile] Thanks for the context 🙂
# [schmarty] aaronpk,snarfed: this is new (to me). syndicating a public post via `fed.brid.gy` and seeing this 502 response from BF seemingly triggered by a 500 response from `aaronparecki.com/activitypub/inbox`: https://telegraph.p3k.io/webmention/16uUryJUfMKoAaGYUr/details
# [snarfed]2 yup! that's intended
# [snarfed]2 open to thoughts
# [schmarty] from the bf side, is it successfully sending other messages out? my first concern is that aaronpk is somewhere first on a list of messages to send and bf stops here.
# [snarfed]2 yes, it is. it tries to deliver to all inboxes, even if some fail, but only returns 200 if all succeed
# [schmarty] snarfed++ great, that was my sincere hope ✨
# [schmarty] in that case aaronpk your AP inbox is throwing 500s 🙃
# [schmarty] i can resend that WM
# [schmarty] sent
# [snarfed]2 right, it's usually string in Mastodon, but afaik object is ok too?
# [snarfed]2 yeah real world interop is a separate question
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# [KevinMarks] not so much a spec as hearsay?
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# [schmarty] micropub.rocks? 😂
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# [schmarty] i predict a lot of future misery over querying for supported properties
# [schmarty] it reminds me of SOAP/WSDL, xml and json schemas, etc.
# [schmarty] agreement layers that become their own deep programming issues.
# [schmarty] and of course the agreement layers among humans!
# [schmarty] "i support location!" okay, is that `u-location` or `p-location` or `u-location h-card` and does `geo:` count as a URL and does `p-location` expect an address oh no or maybe a nested `h-adr` , ...
# [schmarty] like it's already the case that micropub endpoints need to handle a lot of possible data shapes for the same vocab. e.g. most micropub clients send "category" as a bunch of text strings. but ownyourswarm sends person tags as nested h-cards!
# [schmarty] i just see this properties thing as creating extra failure modes that are hard to debug.
# [schmarty] it's a hard problem set! i don't think there are easy answers but i personally really appreciate when a micropub client makes it easy to see exactly what it's going to send to my micropub endpoint so i can work with it.
# [schmarty] a tool to explore and reprocess received micropub requests would be a good feature to add to my micropub endpoint.
# [schmarty] it also makes me think of "lenses" for data. similar to https://www.inkandswitch.com/cambria/
# [schmarty] for example my site is on hugo so i need to store `tags` rather than an array named `category`, and they need to be strings, so i have to move any nested objects. that's a mapping that needs to work from micropub => my post storage, but also needs to work the other way to support micropub content queries.
# [snarfed]2 [benatwork] it's been happening for a long time, so I expect you know already, but just in case, your webmention handler is 500ing
# [snarfed]2 error page says base64_encode(): Argument #1 ($string) must be of type string, array given
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# [snarfed]2 looks like the flood of Deletes from mastodon.technology finally stopped last night
# [snarfed]2 it was accounting for over half of all of BF's traffic 😅
# [snarfed]2 hey now, only once for every user on the instance, for every user they ever interacted with, ever 😎
# [schmarty] now that's what i call exponential growth 📈
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# [schmarty] good thing i'm not a mathematician.
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# [snarfed]2 noticed this gem in the AT Protocol FAQ just now: they have "a preference for domain usernames over AP’s double-@ email usernames" https://atproto.com/guides/faq#why-not-use-activitypub
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[manton] Related to the discussion about Mastodon sending out deletes, this issue and the “steps to reproduce” are pretty great. 🙂 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/22070
# aaronpk ooh progress https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/22273
# [snarfed]2 "mastodon sends Deletes to all known servers, as a "best effort" towards making sure it is deleted from all remote servers. this is done because you can never be sure how far a status or profile has traveled." 😆 😆 😆 🍿 https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/22070#issuecomment-1338062401
# [snarfed]2 (confirmed by ClearlyClaire in https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/22070#issuecomment-1340711206)