#dev 2022-12-16

2022-12-16 UTC
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GWG [snarfed]2: Does Micropub for Bridgy Publish support json encoded, or just form encoded posts? I'm writing my code
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[snarfed]2 GWG both!
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GWG Okay, that saves time
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sknebel https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/359
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Loqi [preview] [trwnh] #359 ActivityPub specification claims support for plain JSON (non-LD-aware) parsing, but does not actually
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[jamietanna] @btrem that Python error is likely because `docker-compose` is written in Python. Unfortunately don't have a recommendation for a good read for a beginner/refresher on Docker tho
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@taufiqz ↩️ I've been thinking about going back to running a self-hosted blog of some sort, and then encouraging others to follow via RSS (or I syndicate my content back to Twitter). And maybe enabling Webmentions for peer-to-peer comments. (twitter.com/_/status/1603710459282001921)
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[tantek] Since there’s plenty of AP chat here and folks building tools & services, this seems like reasonable framing: https://twit.social/@chrisshaw/109521729362323949
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Loqi [preview] [Chris Shaw] @chrisaldrich @leo yes, that would be interesting to expand upon. #indieweb seems protocol driven whereas #fediverse is people driven.Over time, the people of the fediverse will require richer protocols, and no doubt some of the indieweb ideas will ...
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[tantek] ↩️ Odd that wasn’t the link I thought it was in the thread
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[tantek] ^ ironically indieweb did gather people first, protocols second. Do we need to make that more explicit somewhere?
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[tantek] This is the framing by Leo intended: https://twit.social/@leo/109513750228980761
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Loqi [preview] [Chief TWiT :twit:] @chrisshaw Indeeed ActivityPub is a part of the indieweb https://indieweb.org/ActivityPub
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aaronpk Thinking I should write a script to download the reply context from any old tweets I've replied to today
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aaronpk my new tweets grab it automatically but the tweets I imported from the last version of my website didn't include it
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[jacky] how do you plan on doing that? I've been musing about checking if I have any stored MF2 for externally referenced URLs from twitter (which might end up polling bridgy or xray)
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aaronpk The reply context is stored in the post file, so the "in-reply-to" is either a url or an object. So pretty easy to check all the posts for twitter URLs
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[KevinMarks] That perception may be that because we have more than one protocol we talk about them, whereas fediverse is more of a monoculture
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barnaby [jacky], aaronpk: I’ve been doing exactly that as part of my site rewrite, using xray+granary so I also end up with an archived copy of the HTML+mf2 which I can cache and reparse if necessary
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barnaby I haven’t been downloading the media for old tweets, but I did add media downloading as part of my liked tweet archiving tool
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[jacky] I need to get on this before the whole thing goes (or more people deactivate)
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barnaby [jacky]: happy to send you my PHP snippet if it’s useful. I didn’t package it up into something worth sharing but it’s fairly straightfoward
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[jacky] !tell angelo this layout of your page is _nice_ https://indieweb.org/Canopy#short-hashes
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[jacky] er not specifically short hashes but the whole thing
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[jacky] but I am curious about that (hence my copy-paste fumble, lol)
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@Mappletons Joining the @FrontendHorse crew for their holiday stream to talk about the IndieWeb and WebMentions in ~30 mins Lots of great folks in the lineup! Come watch and help raise funds for Doctors Without Borders. (twitter.com/_/status/1603808573313544193)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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barnaby !tell angelo agreed with [jacky], very nice wiki page, but jfyi I’m getting an HSTS expired cert error in firefox when trying to view https://lahacker.net/
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[jacky] it _might_ be the older version of angelogladding.net (or .com)
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[jacky] wait no /
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[jacky] ugh https://ragt.ag/
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[jacky] there we go 🙂
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barnaby it’s linked from the aforementioned nice wiki page, so maybe it needs updating there
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Loqi [preview] Angelo Gladding
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[jacky] yup
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[jacky] anyone using Django for their site? could use passkeys for auth https://github.com/mkalioby/django-passkeys
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[jacky] might be available for conventional Flask apps as well
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Loqi [preview] [mkalioby] django-passkeys: Django Authentication Backend Using Passkeys
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[schmarty] oh yeah, nice! https://www.twitch.tv/TrostCodes right now talking webmentions
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[schmarty] oop short segment, haha. great stream happening today, tho!
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[jacky] heh
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[jacky] soon we'll have more traction
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[jacky] oh poo they don't have any webmention endpoints in that HTML!! travesty 😛
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[tantek] I'm thinking of replacing my webaction fallback links (which currently go to Twitter actions) with similar UX as Mastodon has for non-logged in users (instructions on how to copy paste a URL from a text field into your own posting UI to find it/favorite/reply)
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[tantek] I don't know that I want to encourage fallback behavior of going to Twitter to reply to my posts any more.
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[tantek] Curious if anyone else has done this for responses (similar UX as Mastodon has for non-logged in users)
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[snarfed]2 [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (72 in all channels)
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btrem [jamietanna] I was thinking the same thing, that my docker error was because docker was written in Python. But according to Wikipedia (which is all-knowing), it is written in Go. There was an update of docker this am, but no change. In the meantime, I figured out a way around it, using `docker run` instead of `docker-compose up`. $DEITY knows what the difference is.
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btrem Someday, I'll learn docker properly. (Or some other way to develop website without the bother of configuring/running Apache.)
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aaronpk ok on a more dev topic, why did I get a bridgy fed webmention from a post that's on an actual mastodon server??
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aaronpk (for some reason my duplicate/syndicated checker didn't catch it but that's a different problem)
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[snarfed]2 aaronpk lol, link?
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2022/12/16/18/twitter
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aaronpk https://fed.brid.gy/render?source=https%3A%2F%2Ftech.lgbt%2F%40nelson%2F109525023188443718&target=https%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2F2022%2F12%2F16%2F18%2Ftwitter
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Loqi [preview] [Aaron Parecki] Let's see if I get banned for linking to my own website, which you can also follow from Mastodon. https://aaronparecki.com/@aaronpk
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Loqi [preview] [Nelson Minar] @aaronpk I don't think Mastodon is going to ban you for posting to Mastodon. (Are you auto-copying tweets? I gave up doing that, the social contexts are too different.)
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[snarfed]2 interesting! I'll look, but I expect the answer is because it's promiscuous, like Bridgy classic
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aaronpk how would it have been made aware of the post?
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[snarfed]2 I follow that account
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[snarfed]2 the trigger was shared inbox delivery of the Create for that post
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aaronpk ok so i sent it to the bridgy fed inbox, then what happened?
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[snarfed]2 tech.lgbt sent it, yes. BF then does OPD, extracts targets, and tries to send wms to them
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[snarfed]2 I could definitely limit it to only send wms to active BF users, but I kind of like the promiscuity
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aaronpk wait, why does BF do anything in response to getting an activitypub create? i thought the trigger was it getting a webmention
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[snarfed]2 which maybe still seems culturally ok since it's not doing anything firehose or instance-wide
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[snarfed]2 it does both directions, wm => AP and AP => wm
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aaronpk oh right this is so BF users can get AP replies as webmentions
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[snarfed]2 yup
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aaronpk hmm
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[snarfed]2 BF users and OPD friends :trollface:
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aaronpk so the "right" thing to do is only send webmentions to registered BF websites
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[snarfed]2 I mean, maybe?
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[snarfed]2 kind of a product choice, promiscuous vs narrow
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aaronpk ok how about "optimized" thing
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[snarfed]2 fwiw Bridgy is still squarely promiscuous
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aaronpk ooh i think my duplicate checker thingy didn't catch this because there's no u-syndication property
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[snarfed]2 oh I see you do inbound from AP too, so you might eventually want to de-dupe
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[snarfed]2 right
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aaronpk my deduping works when i get a webmention from someone's website and also a bridgy webmention of the url
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[snarfed]2 sure
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[snarfed]2 I do like that they're promiscuous in general, but I'm open to discussion!
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aaronpk i *think* there's enough info in here for me to dedupe it properly
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[snarfed]2 eg with https://github.com/snarfed/hackermention (global wms for Reddit, Hacker News, etc), I cut it short after a while due to this kind of feedback, and never started on global Mastodon wms
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[snarfed]2 yeah the u-urls are the same here right? should be enough
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] hackermention: Universal webmention backfeed for silos like Reddit, Hacker News, and more.
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aaronpk i normally scope responses to the domain, and don't let domains override each other or claim posts on other domains for deduping purposes
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[snarfed]2 yeah fair
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[snarfed]2 you are a bit more careful and strict there than most of us, which is great precedent for the community
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aaronpk i guess the question is whether there is any benefit to BF behaving this way? like does it mean people might discover content they wouldn't have otherwise? or is it always just extra noise
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[schmarty] aaronpk: from main channel - when you say your site handles liking toots automatically, how do you mean? does it do some discovery that "this is a toot" to engage the AP process?
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aaronpk yep! and same for twitter
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[schmarty] oh wait your site syndicates everything to AP, right.
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aaronpk so when i create a post, and if it's a like, my site goes to discover the URL I liked, and if it's a twitter URL it uses the twitter API to like it, and if it finds activitypub info, it send it out that way
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aaronpk that's not part of the flow that sends all my home page posts out to my AP followers
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[schmarty] oh that's interesting.
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aaronpk now that i say this out loud, i think this means I am sending only one update for the like, only to the original post, not to all my followers. is that what mastodon does too?
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[snarfed]2 afaik no, Update delivery is the same as Creates
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[snarfed]2 all the federated instances need them
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aaronpk er, lowercase update, not Update
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aaronpk but yeah should i be sending out all my likes to all my AP followers??
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[schmarty] my mention-sending has very little logic. to correctly have a like go to a mastodon/AP post I have to put the fed.brid.gy syndication link in the post.
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[snarfed]2 aaronpk oh no, likes just go to the original post
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[snarfed]2 btw re the benefit of BF's promiscuity, I don't really see it as discovery, it's aggregating responses back to the original poster, same as Bridgy classic
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[snarfed]2 it's just a small halo out to a few more people than just strictly those who have signed up
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aaronpk it just seems weird that BF is involved with this interaction of mine because neither me or nelson are BF users
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[snarfed]2 true! I definitely understand the surprise. hopefully at least it makes sense why it happened now, even if it was more serendipity than intentional
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aaronpk i guess the other thing that bothers me about it is that my website does speak activitypub, and so does mastodon, so BF isn't actually adding anything here.
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aaronpk that's different with bridgy's promiscuous twitter delivery since twitter doesn't send webmentions at all
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[snarfed]2 true! you're in a very small set of power users whose web site also speaks AP natively
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[snarfed]2 although I guess micro.blog is now technically a similar, much bigger group
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[snarfed]2 I guess BF could do webfinger lookup and skip those sites
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[snarfed]2 regardless, feel free to file an issue if you want!
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aaronpk maybe that's the right middle ground
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aaronpk actually isn't this true for other bridgy fed users??
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aaronpk like, tantek's site technically "speaks AP natively" because it's set up with bridgy fed. and it also receives webmentions.
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[snarfed]2 yeah, but this is how it receives wms from BF
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[snarfed]2 ie BF doesn't duplicate wms within itself
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aaronpk hmm, so i guess this would only be a problem if there were a second instance of BF running like if someone spun up their own version of it
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[snarfed]2 hah, right. source URLs would be different, but u-urls would be the same
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aaronpk ok i wrote it up https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/348
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Loqi [preview] [aaronpk] #348 Don't send webmentions to websites that support ActivityPub
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[snarfed]2 thanks!
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