#dev 2023-03-30
2023-03-30 UTC
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# 
aaronpk New twitter api pricing dropped https://twittercommunity.com/t/announcing-new-access-tiers-for-the-twitter-api/188728/1
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[snarfed] my last estimate for Bridgy was that it fetches 10-30M tweets per month 😬 https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1410#issuecomment-1423407497
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# [snarfed] as [aaronpk] suggested earlier, I could consider migrating Bridgy Publish to the v2 Twitter API and have it accept users' API client ids and secrets. for the current Bridgy Publish for Twitter users here, if you're interested in that, please apply for v2 API access (https://developer.twitter.com/en/portal/products/free ) and let me know if you get approved
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@schnarfed ↩️ Real announcement finally dropped. Three tiers:
* Free, single-user, write-only
* Basic, $100/mo, 10k tweets/mo read quota (< .1% of http://brid.gy's current usage)
* Enterprise, reportedly starts at $42k/mo for higher quotas
https://twittercommunity.com/t/announcing-new-access-tiers-for-the-twitter-api/188728 (twitter.com/_/status/1641299976486813696)
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[jamietanna] Looks like I've got a v2 app I can use, don't wanna change anything because the Twitter API dashboard shows:
# [jamietanna] > To create a new App, you'll need to delete 2 Apps.
# [jamietanna] > Quota: 2 of 1 Apps
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# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2023/03/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-GqSqrL8kdnzV events/hwc-europe-2023-03-29
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Can someone run that command on IRC?
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Or indeed Slack I think.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> I really need to get Cali working with Discord.
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epoch !archive https://events.indieweb.org/2023/03/homebrew-website-club-europe-london-GqSqrL8kdnzV events/hwc-europe-2023-03-29
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# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Cali is gone!
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> 😦
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> I'll fix it later.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> epoch++
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@voxpelli ↩️ https://indieweb.org/ in general and https://webmention.herokuapp.com/ for me personally (twitter.com/_/status/1641378376060395520)
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# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> angelo Did you get a chance to dive into Hugging Face?
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# [snarfed] unrelated: does anyone know whether/how argument values in a form-encoded POST should be URL-encoded and decoded? eg all characters, or just = and &, or something else? we've been debugging a problem with this in #indieweb-wordpress and https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress-webmention/issues/359
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# sknebel HTML spec: https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#concept-urlencoded-serializer (and the quote specifically from https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#application-x-www-form-urlencoded-percent-encode-set )
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# 
[KevinMarks] You can also encode spaces as %20 the + is an old thing
# [KevinMarks] “an optional boolean spaceAsPlus (default false):”
# bkil Embrace the +! It allows for way shorter URLs in practice due to most human generated text containing way more spaces than pluses or percent signs. That being said, I produce quite dirty escaping in my anchors to cram as much entropy as possible, but that's not the same as the query that others are also expected to parse.
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# bkil Yes, it only applies to the query (i.e., parts produced by the user agent from your form during submission). You must escape space as %20 elsewhere in the URL where allowed (i.e., in the path and fragment).
# bkil But again, in a given domain where I was handling text in the fragment, I'd also opted for the dirty trick of translating spaces to plus there for increased link clarity. It may or may not be friendlier to the dumb tokenizers of web scrapers if SEO is important for you.
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# bkil I'm new here, but in our own communities, the poster is the sole owner of their content (posts, attachments and reactions), hence you are only allowed to back up your own content or ones that the owner declared to be freely licensed. Similarly, in your Facebook take out archive, only your own comments and photos will be included - and we are talking about the Devil Himself regarding privacy....
# bkil But also, you can already link to various content on the chat: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2023-03-30#t1680207301672700
# bkil 💜
# bkil If you are assembling documentation or extending the wiki, just ping the specific person you want to cite. We do that and they never mind.
# bkil I'm working on a secret, backend-optional open social networking project and I strictly differentiate this: on your own properties (e.g., your own domain), only your own content will be rendered statically within the HTML. As it supports weaving conversation threads between follower circles, it dynamically pulls in all your interactions and as long as they are not deleted, they will remain visible to any visitor (-> right to be forgotten). But on public forums
# bkil of mine, each member must declare within their membership metadata how they choose to license their content, under which license and whether they allow the forum "hoster" to mirror the said content on their own properties (subject to periodic checking of the source for expiry).
# bkil The question of teaching AI is a funny one. Maybe it was posted just here earlier https://www.techtarget.com/searchsoftwarequality/news/252526359/Developers-warned-GitHub-Copilot-code-may-be-licensed https://www.zdnet.com/article/is-github-copilots-code-legal-ethically-right/
# bkil Thanks for the link. It is impressive that the more I browse the "wiki", the more I encounter questions & answers that I have been thinking about in the past.
# bkil It is odd that some (legacy) forums "solved" this by way of "owning" all content posted there. The only right to be forgotten seems to be is that they delete your name if you remove your account. Tough luck if personally identifying or embarrassing bits remain deep within such comments. I wish collaboratively edited forum comments and making history option was a thing, but I can always dream.
# bkil capjamesg: Could you perhaps write a script that gathers such snippets, groups them by author and just share the list for review to the said owner where they could just press OK every once in a while? This seems like something that others would also benefit from.
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# bkil And of course you could have a wiki (or just the user's profile page?) where each user could declare upfront that "feel free to do whatever I write publicly". I know quite a few such people.
# bkil Wait, are you trying to train an AI FAQ assistant based on the whole chat log indiscriminately?
# [snarfed] another distinction is whether the bot itself is public or private. capjamesg if you only used this chat-trained version of the bot yourself privately, it'd probably be more acceptable than if you exposed it publicly, like https://jamesg.blog/bot/ currently is
# bkil Full disclosure: just found an old homepage that I can be embarrassed about much more than I remembered. I'm starting to consider arranging for access to update it...
# bkil Again, the question may be moot as the chat is already publicly indexed https://indiechat.search.cweiske.de/?q=ChatGPT I have mixed feelings about it. As long as it's not my content, I'm still amused about the implementation, how snappy both the chat log and the search engine is, how good it works without JavaScript, seeing what great conversations you had in the past, deep technical insights and the lack of spam. But then I think about appearing here myself,
# bkil and then it hits me that this platform doesn't even allow for correcting typos. 😼
# bkil And yeah, surely they'd also trained ChatGPT on huge swaths of web crawls over the years (usually respecting robots.txt), so a bunch of indieweb content will already be present in its "brain".
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# [KevinMarks] There was a bot that understood the s/// syntax at one point
# bkil capjamesg: I wouldn't design a communication platform without a way to be forgotten or a means to build a database, future reference, discoverability and leisure. One has to constantly review their own lines before submitting, otherwise fearing to be faced their mistakes or things they have changed their mind about on an HR interview. This is self-censorship at its worst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-censorship
# bkil Correction & redaction comes standard on Matrix, XMPP, FluxBB/Discourse (and I think basically all forum engines above 1k SLOC), better Fediverse servers such as Friendica/Hubzilla and a few non-federated, but also established FOSS messengers as well.
# bkil Yes, IRC has its uses for rapid exchange or timely acting upon a signal (such as monitoring alerts, doorbell, etc) But for serious professional discourse, I feel it to be quite dated due to the above (and due to quite a few other boring drawbacks). I mean, we have VoIP conferencing tools today that is way faster than typing (although less accessible to some and not commonly indexable right now)
# bkil And we also bridge a few of our Matrix/XMPP support rooms to IRC as well on popular demand, but those are also more about providing quick tech support.
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[tantek] capjamesg, you may be interested in discussions of how to treat /reply-context content as well which is from outside sources
# bkil Interest in chat bots seems to be coming and going in waves over the decades (and over a fractal of timescales down to days). One guy just hooked up ChatGPT in a room (Delta.Chat) and a bunch of people started to play with it non-stop. I did challenge them to give it any meaningful question and its output was vague at best and 50% wrong in the worst case. I'm undecided whether offering no support to a newbie or offering misleading support for them in half the
# bkil cases is better. However, we've decided to let it stay for an evaluation period - at least it makes the atmosphere less dull for a while.
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# bkil Unfortunately it didn't let me join right now, maybe I can try tomorrow. Although, I'd probably be more interested in seeing the full list of _uncurated_ input & output that others have already tested it with over there than to rob you of your tokens with my fuzzing. Too bad the chat channel is not logged...
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# bkil capjamesg++ for asking the uncomfortable questions that others aren't willing, for innovating and providing public PoC
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gRegor It's intentionally not logged https://indieweb.org/discuss#chat
# bkil gRegor yes, I've read that
# bkil Probably doesn't allow the matrix bridge to join it for that reason as well, but never mind that.
# bkil Also thanks to all for having me here. It's getting late so got to hit the sack but will be following the log (where available) 👋
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