#dev 2023-04-25

2023-04-25 UTC
[tw2113_Slack_], nertzy, [schmarty], motheki_, angelo, [aciccarello], Loqi__, mro, gRegor and [Murray] joined the channel
#
[tantek] Bluesky development/design choices probably better discussed here (e.g. terms like MVP are developer jargon, typical users interpret MVP as Most Valuable Player, only developers / product managers interpret it as Minimum Viable Product)
mro, geoffo, pharonix71, gxt__, [jacky], motheki and [timothy_chambe] joined the channel
#
[manton] Now that I’ve done more with Bluesky, I really wish it supported HTML natively. Instead it has the concept of “rich text” posts where you describe the offsets for links, etc.
#
[manton] Everyone always wants to reinvent HTML. HTML works! 🙂
#
aaronpk oh fun
gRegor joined the channel
#
[snarfed] manton++ for shipping Bluesky integration in micro.blog. moving fast!
#
Loqi manton has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (47 in all channels)
#
[schmarty] annotation offsets for links sounds like xanadu, ha
#
[snarfed] AS1 does the same thing. not sure about AS2
mro and bret joined the channel
#
[schmarty] aaronpk (or other folks who make hobby apps): any minimal/small DB layers or ORMs that you like for sqlite databases? i am wary of idiorm's maintainers saying it's nearly unmaintained but it's definitely the simplest and cleanest i have seen so far! (compared: doctrine, "fat-free framework", phpfui/ORM, RedBean)
#
[schmarty] oops: hobby *PHP apps!
#
aaronpk i'm still using idiorm :-/
#
[schmarty] you brought it up to date w/ PHP8.1 so it feels "good enough" to last for a while!
#
[schmarty] it's so much easier to read than mucking with PDO or the other PHP built-ins directly. and i think the only thing i want that it doesn't have is a migration story.
#
gRegor I'm still using idiorm as well, for indiebookclub and some work projects.
#
[schmarty] gRegor++ that's another great data point! thank you both! aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (84 in all channels)
#
Loqi gRegor has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (91 in all channels)
#
gRegor Have kind of thought about replacing, but it's nice that it's not too hard to get to underlying PDO, "worst case"
#
gRegor I'm pretty comfortable with PDO, though, too
#
gRegor Big caveat is that we're mostly PHP74, haven't jumped to 8 yet, so who knows. Ask me in a year? Heh.
#
gRegor It's a bit heavier, but I've used cakephp/database lib in other projects and like it so far
#
[snarfed] yolo chaos answer: https://phiresky.github.io/blog/2021/hosting-sqlite-databases-on-github-pages/
#
gRegor (oops, I totally missed the sqlite angle. No experience there.)
#
[schmarty] snarfed++ lol i have considered this for various projects. it's one of my favorite "that's ridiculous! but what if- 🤔" web tricks.
#
Loqi snarfed has 90 karma in this channel over the last year (145 in all channels)
#
[KevinMarks] I'm pretty sure we switched to html for AS2, though there might be some lagacy support for offsets. Twitter did that, and Paul's DAT based network Fritter. Google Wave too, though theirs was even more pathological
#
[snarfed] Yup AS2 does support HTML content
#
[KevinMarks] Wave used some byzantine thing that GWT implemented to save Java programmers from having to think about js
#
[KevinMarks] Schmarty are you sure you need an ORM and can't get away with a combination of regular db and din be json structured fields?
#
[schmarty] KevinMarks: i probably could do what you suggest! i'm working on porting the o-so-minimal indieweb web ring on glitch from JS to PHP, with the goal of not having breakage from dependency drift every few months. trying to find a tradeoff of something that is more readable than bare PDO for future me but also a very light dependency. idiorm is looking good tbh.
mro joined the channel
#
@voxpelli ↩️ I do think ActivityPub and eg IndieWeb protocols like WebMention can be bridged, eg https://fed.brid.gy/ does that. I don’t care if one subscribes to my RSS using Feedly, Feedbin or some app and I neither care if they follow me using Mastodon or some other client. (twitter.com/_/status/1650954167035330562)
#
@voxpelli ↩️ I do think ActivityPub and eg IndieWeb protocols like WebMention can be bridged, eg https://fed.brid.gy/ does that. I don’t care if one subscribes to my RSS using Feedly, Feedbin or some app and I neither care if they follow me using Mastodon or some other client. (twitter.com/_/status/1650954167035330562)
#
voxpelli positively objecting to disregarding ActivityPub because one doesn’t like the Mastodon implementation
#
voxpelli is very happy about the plurality core principle of the IndieWeb
#
[snarfed] voxpelli++
#
Loqi voxpelli has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
motheki_ and motheki joined the channel
#
[tantek] lol annotation offsets remind me of the Twitter annotations hack fest that myself [KevinMarks] and Rohit went to. Annotations I believe were limited to 256bytes each per tweet.
#
[tantek] (This was back in the 140char days)
#
[tantek] So of course I invented a way to compress "simple" CSS into minimal bytes, using offsets ranges as selectors, called it TSS (tweet style sheets) and Robit & so built a UI to "tweet" any color/size/font/position of pieces of text and demo'd it
#
[tantek] It started reasonable like hey ranges of bold or italic text or colored text and by the end we had recreated the graphic *poster* for the hack fest in a single tweet
#
[tantek] We watched a the face of certain Twitter leader hack fest judge who shall go nameless went white as he realized what we were able to unleash in *one day* coding. Twitter annotations API was subsequently summarily scrapped
#
[tantek] Probably unrelated. Probably. We thought it was funny as heck tho
#
gRegor lol
#
[tantek] oh my goodness the demo still works
#
[tantek] this was from 2010, summarized with a post to all the old posts / resources in 2017: https://tantek.com/2017/013/t1/csswg-compression-2010-tss
#
Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] In @CSSWG meeting there was a mention of compressing CSS, so I noted my 2010 TSS http://xent.com/tss.js, invented as part of @rohitkhare & my Rich Tweet Format (RTF) hack we built during the Twitter Annotations Hackfest: http://readwrite.com/2010/06/...
#
[tantek] here's the still live demo loooool http://xent.com/rtf
#
[tantek] select the different "presets:" pop-ups to see the full "tweet text", "TSS annotation", and then expansion into CSS and resultant HTML preview
#
[tantek] e.g. Hello world (in two colors)
#
[tantek] then progressively pick subsequent presets and imagine me and Rohit speaking back & forth like Abbot & Costello asking could we make the text different colors, add boxes, rotate it? etc.
#
[schmarty] well well well big surprise the jokey library i used to generate emoji hashes from domain names for the indieweb webring isn't using safe big integer math and therefore a PHP version can never be consistent 🤦‍♂️💀
#
[tantek] ohnoes
#
[schmarty] ah well! taking suggestions for cute new slug format for the webring. (rather than bumping it up to 4 emojis for future joiners)
#
aaronpk prime numbers
#
gRegor Cute hats? https://imgur.com/a/V5gLBro Oh, different type of slug.
motheki joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Tantek , I think you invented tailwind
#
gRegor XD