#dev 2023-09-13

2023-09-13 UTC
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c​apjamesg I was talking with angelo yesterday about the advantages / disadvantages of having W3C Social Web WG standards becoming IndieWeb living standards.
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c​apjamesg I understand the rigor of the W3C process lends credibility to a standard and involves extensive review from web experts. The IndieWeb doesn't have that process, nor, perhaps, should we aspire to have. But nonetheless I thought I'd raise this!
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[KevinMarks] Congratulations [pfefferle] https://mastodon.social/@pfefferle/111057028031190434
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Loqi [preview] [Matthias Pfefferle] We just released version 1.0.0 of the #WordPress #ActivityPub plugin! 🎉This is the first release under the umbrella of #Automattic!Thanks to Automattic and all the fantastic people who helped with this great release!@mattwiebe for the amazing new ...
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[pfefferle] thanks [KevinMarks] 🙂
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c​apjamesg Amazing work!!!
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[capjamesg] Discussions are happening at TPAC, the W3C annual conference, about rechartering a Social Web Working Group.
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[capjamesg] The group would have a new mandate that is still being discussed. Current thoughts are around advancing the existing standards from the last Working Group.
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[capjamesg] A lot is still to be determined, but we anticipate a vote in the next community group meeting to ascertain whether we want to restart the Working Group.
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AramZS tantek Oh, web actions are really cool! I wasn't aware of this! I'm not sure it matches the Soni proposal, which is about having links or web actions open in specific apps instead of in the web, which I think is the standard for webactions? I guess sort of a take on a deep link.
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sknebel for all the shouting about mastodons link previews being a problem, bluesky seems to go the other way which seems ... worse: https://github.com/qwell/bsky-exploits
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c​apjamesg Oof.
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sknebel letting users provide the preview cards is ... a choice
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c​apjamesg It is weird.
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c​apjamesg And, as evidenced above, insecure.
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aaronpk Haven't we been through this before?
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c​apjamesg aaronpk Re: link previews?
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aaronpk yeah
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[snarfed] capjamesg you don't necessarily have to choose between "official" standing (eg W3C) and living standard that evolves more quickly, right? WHATWG is the canonical example that does both
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[snarfed] obviously others here know more, I'll defer to them, but I'd love to see that model used more widely
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[tantek] AramZS, yes, webactions are about opening things across ... the web. That being said, most platforms have hooks for "specific apps" to claim to handle specific URLs and that's good enough
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[tantek] creating links on the web that "open in specific apps instead of in the web" is a non-open-web anti-pattern which we should strongly discourage
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[tantek] (except for prototypes and in situations where no standard alternative exists 😞 )
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Soni [tantek]: we don't focus on specific apps
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Soni we don't focus on *specific* apps
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Soni we think alternatives are good and we should crowbar things open where we can - and the web hasn't been open since everything became a webapp
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[tantek] sigh, that's a statement I find I can related to: "web hasn't been open since everything became a webapp"
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[tantek] Soni, you may find some resonance with /js;dr
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Soni alternative frontends (invidious, nitter, etc) are a good start for crowbaring things open
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Soni tho we could probably use more effort
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Soni (and yeah, we may be biased but personally we do think our spec, https://fedilinks.org/2 , is also a good start)
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Loqi [preview] Fallback Protocol Handlers
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[snarfed] webmention and micropub test suites are getting praise right now in the activitypub chat on matrix: https://matrix.to/#/%23fediverse-devs:matrix.org
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[snarfed] "Typically at this point, somebody refers to the WebMention testing site. ;-). However, I wonder why nobody refers to the Micropub testing site, which I'd guess is closer to ActivityPub than the simpler WebMention functionality."
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[snarfed] "Yeah, WebMentions were a piece of cake BECAUSE of its great test suite."
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aaronpk 😎
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[tantek] I may have repeatedly mentioned webmention.rocks in today's Social Web Test Suites breakout session at TPAC 😎
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c​apjamesg [tantek]++
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Loqi [tantek] has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (99 in all channels)
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c​apjamesg [snarfed] Good callout!
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c​apjamesg I have reached out to the chairs and editors to schedule the next SWICG call. I'll post it to the IndieWeb events page when we have agreed on a time and date.
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[tantek] capjamesg++ thank you!
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Loqi capjamesg has 41 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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Soni [tantek]: (also, what's /js;dr ?)
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Soni (sorry, apparently we forgot to ask)
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c​apjamesg https://indieweb.org/js%3Bdr
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Soni ah
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Soni we mean we don't mind js
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Soni we use it for the fallback to web+feed://soniex2.autistic.space/microblog.atom
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Soni could we do server-side rendering? probably, but figuring out how to configure the webserver for that was too much effort
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Soni (we still don't have a real git web interface)
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[snarfed] new AP test suite is up and running! https://github.com/steve-bate/activitypub-testsuite
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[snarfed] ...but sadly it looks really complicated. requires each implementation to build its own custom harness before it can be tested
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Loqi [preview] [steve-bate] activitypub-testsuite: Server-independent, full-automated test suite primary focused on ActivityPub server compliance testing.
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[snarfed] they prioritized fully automated over 90% automated with online test server with a "test this URL" button, like the webmention and micropub test suites. sigh
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