#dev 2023-10-16

2023-10-16 UTC
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[tantek] I kind of want to tell people to start their post permalink pages with a <body class="h-entry"><pre style="whitespace: pre-wrap" class="e-content"> put your blog post content here as plain text with line breaks </pre></body> until they figure out their content design & strategy before offering any other markup advice
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[tantek] GWG ^ please let me know if you see any flaws with this reasoning or methodology. And if not, then please consider when people ask what markup to use, ask them about their content design first
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GWG I thought having the page up meant the content design had been done
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[tantek] In that case all questions about "which markup should I use" should translate to questions about "what does your content look like now"
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[tantek] Not: well you could use this markup or this markup or this markup whichever you like better
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[tantek] Like the whole question about whether or not to add an h-card to the u-author. It's not a "feel like it or not" or "my parser would to this or that" question. Both of those frankly are irrelevant and misleading
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[tantek] The answer is: what information about the author IS ALREADY BEING DISPLAYED IN YOUR CONTENT? It literally nothing, and there's only an empty link (which I highly doubt) then yes you can omit the h-card. Otherwise, yes there should be an embedded h-card to markup the information about the author that is visible to readers
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GWG Good point
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sknebel Renfield: https://lnx.graphics/train.html is a very fun idea! :)
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srijan sknebel: Do we need an indieweb train? Cars get added automatically when you send a webmention?
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GWG capjamesg: Did you ever look at the Ticket Auth page after I made some revisions?
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GWG srijan: People all over the world, start an indieweb train?
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srijan Yes, *someone* should build it!
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srijan Or, once/if I complete my new website, I can think of adding it
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[catgirlinspace] indieweb train?
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[catgirlinspace] how do i do?
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[Jo] they have something like this on tilde.team (i thinknit was that one) where the train is ascii art and the messages are on the cars
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c​apjamesg Relevant to private posting: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/7135
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Loqi [preview] [Korbak] #7135 Ask for a new privacy level : "mutuals"
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[tantek] capjamesg, interesting thread on a couple of counts, but first, I pretty much agree with this comment: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/7135#issuecomment-419698660
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Loqi [preview] [steckerhalter] I never really understood why we have "followers-only" toots. it just makes everything complicated. then you have to "lock" your account and approve followers, whereas with mutual toots none of this would be necessary and I as a user would have bette...
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[tantek] 1 yet another confusing misuse of the term "private". "Private" needs to really mean *just you*, and then *maybe* if you allow someone/something to OAuth in with explicit access to your "private" content.
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[tantek] 2 there is no need for "mutuals". the answer here is the Dopplr method. Followings-only.
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[tantek] and yes, as a result per that comment, drop the "followers-only" audience, that's useless (and confusing if you use any hashtags for example)
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[aciccarello] I agree, followers-only is a strange, audience model if you're not approving individual follow requests.
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[aciccarello] From a privacy perspective it's still basically public.
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[snarfed] mutuals and followings-only are probably just different names for the same thing, right? specifically, if someone follows you but you don't follow them, you generally shouldn't see any of their posts, regardless of privacy level, right?
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[snarfed] assuming that, then followings-only and mutual are the same, right?
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[tantek] snarfed, if you are logged in, you should be able to see a followings only post of someone who follows you.
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[tantek] without having to follow them back
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[tantek] this is the Dopplr way
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[tantek] and it makes so much sense
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[snarfed] ah ok, distinction between "can you see it" and "does it show up in your feed"
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[tantek] correct
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[tantek] like can you click on the permalink and see it
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[tantek] can a mutual friend share a permalink URL to you and you click on it and view it
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[tantek] etc.
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[tantek] the use-cases are numerous beyond "show up in your feed"
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sknebel dopplr was very focussed though. whereas on other platforms its a mix of "personal" following and "informational" following, and just because someone follows lets say the mastodon account ofs their local parties/politicians doesnt mean they want them to be able to read their more private posts
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[tantek] that's a very good point and example sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (41 in all channels)
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sknebel mutuals is one level more then, without going full list management/circles
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[tantek] I think your local parties/politicians example still applies even in the case of mutuals. I've certainly had some politicians that I follow just to be informed follow me back and thus "mutuals" wouldn't be any help if I wanted to restrict who reads my more private posts
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[tantek] wouldn't be sufficient that is to achieve the presumably desired effect
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sknebel right, it primarily makes sense if you do filter who is allowed to follow you, as [aciccarello] said
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[tantek] indeed
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[tantek] IG's "close friends" feature seems like a reasonable alternative to "going full list management/circles" as well
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sknebel yeah, you can make a "you get 1 list" variant
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sknebel (also re the points about hashtags, mastodon UI is reasonably clear about hashtags only making your posts findable in fully public posts (with the second "level" being "unlisted", which is publicly accessible, but *not* appearing in hashtag listings, local/global feeds, ...)
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sknebel (which I wish people would use more, because for some hashtags too many of the posts are people telling other people "you should look at <hashtag>" ;))
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[KevinMarks] Flickr has 2 lists - friends and family
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[tantek] lol re: "you should look at hashtag" posts
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sknebel I mean sure, please do tell people about cool hashtags they might enjoy, but it clashes with people already following those hashtags, who dont need that hint and want to see only the relevant posts :D
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[tantek] presumably such posts could be fixed by replace the instance of the hashtag with a link to a URL of a specific hashtag aggregation page, e.g. https://indieweb.social/tags/IndieWeb
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[tantek] also by linking to a specific hashtag aggregation page, the "you should look at" encouragement has a greater chance of showing the same/similar thing(s) to the reader as the person who posted "you should" encouragement post
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[tantek] [snarfed] looping back to an earlier chat re: how to POSSE things like bookmarks to destinations like Mastodon that don't have that post type. See for example how Nicolas Hoizey POSSEs his bookmarks from his personal site to his Mastodon (I don't know which tool is doing this), e.g. https://indieweb.social/@nhoizey@mamot.fr/111230110693021884
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[tantek] I meant https://mamot.fr/@nhoizey/111230110523175615 obv
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Loqi [preview] [Nicolas Hoizey] 🔗 “How I am blogging the IndieWeb way” by @liztai#IndieWeb #POSSE #PESOS ⚓️ https://nicolas-hoizey.com/links/2023/10/05/how-i-am-blogging-the-indieweb-way/ https://mamot.fr/system/media_attachments/files/111/230/110/379/216/408/original/a94bd9f1f3a82476.png
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[tantek] note the explicit use of the leading emoji 🔗 “link-destination-title” to indicate a bookmark post in a plain text note
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[tantek] I'm capturing this example and analysis in /bookmark but thought I'd give you a heads-up of a real world example answer to your question
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[snarfed] totally, thanks! lots of great text-first ideas and formats, I love them
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[snarfed] probably not ready to enshrine any of them into Bridgy [Fed] as its single opinionated format, esp since users can do it themselves, but it's useful to have examples to point to
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[tantek] yes, makes sense. I'll keep collecting example in /bookmark and perhaps a pattern will emerge
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[aciccarello] This conversation reminds me... I have a draft post thinking about hashtags I wrote after a moment of inspiration late one night. I should revisit that.
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[aciccarello] I'm sure I made some grave assumptions in my slumber that renders the ideas moot but might be something there.
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[tantek] ^ good reason to sleep on a draft post, and then reduce it to the parts you're more sure of
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[tantek] today's a good day to implement liking of toots
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[tantek] and I think I got it coded, including a new cassis function
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[tantek] success! my first fediverse fave (like) https://cosocial.ca/@evan/111237962392745000/favourites thanks to BridgyFed++
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Loqi BridgyFed has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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[snarfed] tantek++ nice!
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Loqi tantek has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (104 in all channels)
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gRegor what is authorship algorithm
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Loqi The Authorship specification is an algorithm for discovering and determining the author of a post https://indieweb.org/authorship_algorithm
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gRegor Going back a bit, yeah, indiewebify.me's current recommendations for h-entry aren't really aware of the authorship spec so it suggests the "typical" p-author h-card. Which unfortunately gives the impression "this is the one way to post on the indieweb"
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gRegor I'm hoping to spend more time on https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/82 soon, maybe done by end of year? I think that will make it easier to expand and improve indiewebify.me tools
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Loqi [preview] [gRegorLove] #82 Migrate to Slim4 framework
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aaronpk I just did a big rewrite of indie news to a more recent version of the routing framework and it was a PITA but also not that bad in the end
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gRegor that's also Slim right?
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gRegor yeah looks like
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capjamesg aaronpk Can you take a look at https://github.com/protocol-registries/link-relations/issues/63?
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Loqi [preview] [capjamesg] #63 Registration Request: indieauth-metadata
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[KevinMarks] https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@badlogic/111246798083590676
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Loqi [preview] [Mario Zechner] The past two nights I wrote a "thread reader app" for BlueSky.https://skyview.socialOh boy. The protocol is absolutely insane. RPC galore, responses are only partially typed. The docs are pretty much useless.But the "funniest" part is this: there's n... https://cdn.masto.host/mastodongamedevplace/media_attachments/files/111/246/791/778/477/909/original/9070f60b3991b347.png
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