#dev 2023-12-05

2023-12-05 UTC
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GWG Is there anyone using Micropub without IndieAuth?
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GWG I noticed that IndieAuth-client-php looks for Micropub and Microsub endpoints and made me wonder.
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aaronpk i know some micropub clients use essentially hard-coded access tokens that weren't obtained through the indieauth redirect flow
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GWG aaronpk: I was just wondering of IndieAuth is a dependency of Micropub or not ..the answer seems to be no, but in the wild, other than manual tokens, no.
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GWG I'm not suggesting anything as a result of that thought though, other than some opportunities my own code.
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GWG Lots of little things....do I cache the IndieAuth metadata? If so, for how long?
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GWG I'm including the older header data.
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GWG Now that IndieAuth metadata optionally allows for showing supported scopes, can we leverage that?
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GWG I know for ticketing I mentioned that a ticket redemption flow should check for support of the ticket grant type as a precaution, but...
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[tantek] GWG, I believe the http://micro.blog client Sunlit (which is a micropub client) requires a http://micro.blog login rather than IndieAuth.
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[tantek] heads-up Social CG folks here [KevinMarks] [capjamesg] Angelo, joint Social CG / Solid CG meeting to discuss potential collaboration opportunities, tomorrow (Tuesday) morning 16:00 UTC (08:00 PST) https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/82f5ae9e-ff66-4a8a-8bd8-42212d627b46/20231128T140000/
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[tantek] worth creating an IndieWeb event for?
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[tantek] aaronpk also ^. hoping there's more positive potential here than not
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gRegor what is sunlit
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Loqi Sunlit is an open source iOS app to post photos to micro.blog and Micropub capable sites https://indieweb.org/sunlit
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GWG I wouldn't have thought of an iOS app
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[manton] I’d love to add IndieAuth to Sunlit. There are some Micro.blog-specific things in it but posting is just Micropub and could be useful on its own.
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GWG [manton]: for many people
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c​apjamesg I will not be able to make it to that meeting. I hope it goes well!
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[tantek] No worries! We'll do our best to encourage collaboration and plurality
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s​tarrwulfe GWG: I'm one of those many people! There's no iOS MicroPub app I'm aware of currently.
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[schmarty] [manton]: does Epilogue support IndieAuth? :star-struck:
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[tantek] So far super positive joint meeting with SocialCG/SolidCG meeting, with Sarven chairing, and I volunteered to co-chair from the Social side until Dmitri showed up.
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[tantek] notes here if folks want to follow along: https://hackmd.io/QOpHN7LsRQO5FwLLjD2zTg?edit
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[tantek] [aaronpk] [capjamesg] ^ if you see things I should correct (especially if I said them!) please LMK. Or links to add to specific things I mentioned.
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[tantek] this is the meeting link btw with details: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/82f5ae9e-ff66-4a8a-8bd8-42212d627b46/20231128T140000/
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gRegor /Sunlit reads like it 3.0 supports IndieAuth, does that need to be updated?
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[snarfed] out of curiosity, I've been looking at alternatives to superfeedr: zapier, IFTT, http://rssapi.net, http://n8n.io, etc. most of them charge per feed subscription, or less commonly per post notification, but IFTTT seems to allow unlimited feed subscriptions and post notifs for $5/mo?! seems...surprising?
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[snarfed] (https://indieweb.org/IFTTT )
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[schmarty] re: neocities and rel=canonical - i don't know what it would mean for them to "support" it other than allowing it to be published, for example as `<link rel="canonical" href="...">` - which they do!
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[tantek] what does the href link to? the subdomain or custom domain? or both?!?
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[schmarty] hahaha, as a publisher a user can decide!
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Loqi nice
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[tantek] yes, ideally the user should decide, though I'd expect them to default having any rel-canonical link to the custom domain (not subdomain)
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[tantek] that's would it would mean to "support" rel=canonical IMO
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sknebel default for what
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[tantek] that's what* it would mean
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sknebel neocities is a webhost
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sknebel you put your own HTML in there
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[tantek] sknebel, see prior discussion in #indieweb
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[tantek] default for whether subdomain.neocities is the canonical or customdomain is the canonical
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sknebel what does that mean for something you put your own HTML files on
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sknebel they are not a blogging engine
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[schmarty] bringing up rel=canonical was my knee-jerk response to "duplicate content" - serving the same content at <user>.http://neocities.org and any custom domain the user sets up. but maybe i should have started with "why does it matter if it is duplicate content?"
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[tantek] sknebel they allow both subdomains and customdomains, and having both, serving your "HTML files", thus two places, thus duplicate content
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[tantek] thus the need for rel=canonical
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sknebel yes, and you put rel=canonical in your HTML files
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sknebel which whatever value makes sense for you
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sknebel *with
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sknebel for something like wordpress.com, where they generate the HTML for your pages, sure, it makes sense for the service to set that and thus have a default.
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[tantek] HTTP headers then
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sknebel but neocities does not generate HTML
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[snarfed] https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/550#issuecomment-1841605025
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] Superfeedr is very unreliable these days, and I'm not confident in its future. Looking into alternatives and their pricing. Many charge per feed, which I don't think is sustainable for BF. Some charge per notification, which is better. IFTTT and Boti...
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[manton] [schmarty] Sort of yes, sort of no. The catch with most of the http://Micro.blog apps including Epilogue is that it assumes you want to sign in with your http://Micro.blog account (which can be free) and then it will let you use IndieAuth/Micropub to post somewhere else. Bookshelf management, for example, there’s no agreed upon IndieWeb API convention, so that is Micro.blog-specific. But blog posting can go anywhere.
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[manton] I think we’ve talked here about extending Micropub for bookshelves, like having “channel=books” or something like that.
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[snarfed] do you need explicit support? like to connect read or review posts with it?
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[snarfed] otherwise it could be just plain h-entry/h-feed editing without dedicated mf2, right?
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[snarfed] eg https://snarfed.org/books is a bookshelf w/reviews and to-read list but no special mf2
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[manton] It feels a little weird to me to add to a to-read list by creating a new post with MF2. But I guess that does work, and there could be special support on the backend for it.
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[manton] Some people want a post like “want to read book ABC” on their blog, but often it’s just private data until they’re ready to actually write about it.
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sknebel so a private post ;)
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c​apjamesg starrwulfe[d] I like Supabase.
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c​apjamesg But...
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[manton] Heh, I guess? In my mind, it’s just metadata, not an actual post. That would work, though.
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c​apjamesg If your instance isn't used for a week they shut it off. Until you manually start it in their app.
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c​apjamesg My website search feature thus crashes if nobody uses it for a week.
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sknebel lol
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s​tarrwulfe Ah didn't know that
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c​apjamesg (Unless you are on the paid plan.)
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c​apjamesg The developer experience is great.
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c​apjamesg I used it for a work project earlier this year with JavaScript. It was nice.
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s​tarrwulfe I need a way to "hold" and show comments along with the pages Craft.do puts out....
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c​apjamesg Supabase feels good for that. As long as you query it every so often 😄
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s​tarrwulfe Check this out:
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s​tarrwulfe https://zuolan.me/en
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sknebel capjamesg: cronjob with "curl https://jamesg.blog/q=stayalive" every night? ;)
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gRegor what is bookshelf
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Loqi 📚 A personal library is an online collection of books and other media that reflects either physical or digital items one owns, wants to acquire, has bookmarked to read/watch/listen to, is currently doing so, or has in the past https://indieweb.org/bookshelf
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s​tarrwulfe This is actually done with Notion with Supabase as a "sidecar" DB for comments, faster search, etc...
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c​apjamesg sknebel 😄
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sknebel when heroku and glitch had rules like that people would use uptime monitoring services
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c​apjamesg I liked Heroku.
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sknebel to "check" every hour if their site was "still available", each time poking the timeout counter to keep it running :D
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sknebel afaik glitch at some point banned people from doing that
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s​tarrwulfe I have a buddy working at Heroku actually...
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s​tarrwulfe Consider this:
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s​tarrwulfe https://zuolan.me/en/notionic_en
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s​tarrwulfe (damn his sharesheet cards are NICE!)
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s​tarrwulfe https://zuolan.me/en/next_craft_en
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s​tarrwulfe and this:
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s​tarrwulfe I already do a hacky thing for my personal site https://jason.gatewood.xyz/ using Craft Docs
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s​tarrwulfe And I just need some way to mash something together that would have a comment section sliding around posts and notes and such...
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c​apjamesg Oooh! I love the style.
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s​tarrwulfe Yeah-- and it's crazy easy to work with as Markdown "just works"
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s​tarrwulfe I really wish there was an API for Craft already but there's nothing.
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[tantek] what is Craft?
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Loqi Craft is a commercial PHP/MySQL CMS and eCommerce platform, with both hosted and self-hosted options https://indieweb.org/Craft
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sknebel hah, name collision
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[tantek] time for disambig? or not relevant to IndieWeb?
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GWG Why is my constant statement on IndieAuth that, "I don't know enough about what I'm talking about, but I find it easy and straightforward, and OAuth2 with all its extensions is not.
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sknebel I guess since people actually use it for personal sites it is kinda relevant. could e.g. be "Craft CMS" and "craft.do" for the two different things, with just a short blurb on /Craft
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sknebel as soon as someone makes a page for the second one
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[tantek] what is http://craft.do?
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sknebel heh, slack bridge (I assume?) adding http:// makes Loqi unhappy?
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sknebel What is craft.do?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "craft.do" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "craft.do is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] good observation sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 13 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
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s​tarrwulfe ive been meaning to do a disambiguation for this for a while
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s​tarrwulfe Craft.do is a platform for creating and collaboration on documents, notes and projects.
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[tantek] is craft .do something is use yourself Starrwulfe?
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s​tarrwulfe Yes
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[tantek] something you* use
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s​tarrwulfe See jason.gatewood.xyz
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[tantek] excellent, add an IndieWeb Examples section noting that and how!
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s​tarrwulfe Ok! 👌🏿
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sknebel Craft.do is a platform for creating and collaboration on documents, notes and projects.
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Loqi ok
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sknebel just relaying for Loqi
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