#dev 2024-01-15

2024-01-15 UTC
[tantek] and Renfield joined the channel
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[tantek] Looks like Mastodon supports hashtags starting with numbers (unlike Twitter), e.g. https://indieweb.social/tags/2013_011
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[tantek] Zegnat, re: "Would love to hear people’s thoughts [on ReST presumably]", short version: replace it, just like Markdown. longer: analyze its use-cases to see what are the 80/20 reasons to use ReST and make sure my replacement supports those use-cases.
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[tantek] Zegnat, what are your primary use-cases for ReST, as in which subset of the features of ReST actually matter to you?
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[snarfed] [tantek] the interesting bit about that hashtag is that Mastodon post itself renders the other letter-based hashtag, but not #2013_011
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[tantek] Sounds like a Mastodon bug
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Zegnat [tantek]: The reason I am attracted to ReST more than Markdown is because its explicit support for figures, call outs, footnotes and citations. I am not at all sure that I would come up with better implementations of those things if I were to invent them myself. No urge to create my own plain text language when I can use one that exists.
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[tantek] ReST (like Markdown) is not a plain text language
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[tantek] I've solved footnotes with actual plain text. Figures I have a design for but haven't implemented.
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[tantek] I need to understand what folks expect from a "call out". Is that like a pull quote?
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[tantek] And citations is a very big use-case, like do you use a particular style?
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Zegnat Citations are honestly not a big usecase for me. It is more that they are collected separately from other footnotes so they can be displayed separate from eachother at the end.
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[tantek] Ahhh a bibliography like feature
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Zegnat Yep
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Zegnat Not sure how I would make footnotes much easier than they are in ReST. Where it is just a number [2]_, that you then define to be a text somewhere later in your document...
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Zegnat https://www.docutils.org/docs/user/rst/quickref.html#footnotes
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jjuran I'm in the practice of referencing notes[1] in text I write[2], with the notes themselves appearing after the paragraph or section in which they're cited.
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jjuran [1] Like this one, for example.
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jjuran [2] Typically emails or program documentation.
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[tantek] Zegnat pretty sure I blogged literally about why I chose ^1 instead of [1] when I built my footnotes support
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rubenwardy [tantek]: call out are boxes like NOTE: WARNING: TIP:
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rubenwardy some markdown implementations support footnotes
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rubenwardy jekyll's does, for example
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rubenwardy GitHub Flavoured Markdown supports callouts
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[tantek] Ah right we discussed this, and how to do call outs without a bunch of extra punctuation
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Zegnat jjuran: same for me, I often write the footnote contents directly after the paragraph, it is then up to the rendering step to figure out where it ends up
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Zegnat I like that ReST also supports explicit auto numbering. So I can do [#]_ for a footnote and it will take care of numbering
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[KevinMarks] Is there a good way to express sidenotes vs footnotes?
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[KevinMarks] or I suppose footnotes vs endnotes
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[KevinMarks] what the foot counts as in a scrolling layout is a bit odd, though foot of post makes some sense.
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sknebel hm, not sure how often that'd come up except for citations?
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sknebel similar to that you could do different numbering/labelling formats and split based on that
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[KevinMarks] the Tufte CSS pattern of showing footnotes in the margin if its big enough, or as inline details if not is a solid one, but keeping academic citations as endnotes is interesting; https://edwardtufte.github.io/tufte-css/
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[KevinMarks] I've seen varations on this eg by Molly White and Stratechery
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jeremycherfas I think the terms footnote and endnote are hangovers from physical publishing, where footnotes are always at the foot of the page and endnotes may be at the end of a chapter or at the end of the book as a whole. Citations may be in notes of either sort, and are often duplicated in a bibliography. I'm not aware of any uniform conventions for the same things on the web. Even less so where there is specific print CSS.
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[KevinMarks] https://colourblind-palette-maker.glitch.me/
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[KevinMarks] I usually want to read explanatory footnotes, but not citations, so having a visual distinction is useful, conversely sometimes you want to dig through citations.
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[snarfed] I started to write up the idea of using rel-me to let sites indicate a "preferred" bridge
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[snarfed] er sorry, rel=bridge
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[snarfed] https://github.com/gugray/rss-parrot/issues/29
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[snarfed] one catch is that it only works for web sites, ie wouldn't help eg a Bluesky account indicate which bridge it prefers to use to connect it to the fediverse
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Zegnat This is interesting, Feedbin added a new feature specifically for helping people fix broken feed URLs: https://feedbin.com/blog/2024/01/15/fixable-feeds/
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[jeremycherfas] Now if only they would mash that up with a validator to fix the feed itself, rather than only its url
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[Niklas_Siefke] [snarfed] (Don't know if #indieweb-dev or #indieweb@norse.social, the "test-like" made by myself doesn't show up
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[snarfed] [Niklas_Siefke] ok! I think http://webmention.io only keeps those status pages visible for maybe a week or
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[snarfed] I don't run http://webmention.io, [aaronpk] does, so if you have questions that aren't answered by its docs or readme, you'll want to ask him
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[Niklas_Siefke] Thanks!
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aaronpk yeah the status pages are relatively short lived, i don't remember the exact amount of time
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gRegor Interesting, Ghost might be the first webmention implementation I've seen where the source URL is JSON: https://ghost.org/docs/recommendations/
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gRegor Pretty narrow use of wm but still cool
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gRegor Trying it out again with a friend since they updated their Ghost
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gRegor I got a 202 response, though I wonder if Ghost is expecting all incoming ones to also be JSON
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[snarfed] huh, that is an interesting surprising use of webmentions in the wild with no mf2, and instead a custom JSON source schema
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gRegor eating their own cooking too: https://ghost.org/changelog/.well-known/recommendations.json
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