#dev 2024-02-08

2024-02-08 UTC
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[tantek] for anyone thinking of building a Mastodon or AP-based business, I still think "The Federated Group" is a good name a nice 1980s throwback for a certain set
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[tantek] just be sure to avoid this ironic outcome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Group#Silo
angelo_, pharalia, AramZS, [tw2113], mahboubine, tPoltergeist, gxt, jjuran, Maxpm, Guest4898, rubenwardy, BinarySavior, srushe, ancarda, jan6, GWG, capjamesg, rhiaro, ludovicchabant, oodani, ramsey, streety, joshproehl, Saphire, Xe, chimo, vikanezrimaya_, roxwize, eb, alecjonathon, jonnybarnes, voxpelli, mooff, oxtyped, dustinm`, nsh, alephalpha0, rrix, Kaja, omz13, sandra, lagomorph_, saptaks, rocto, hacdias, sknebel, mretka, oenone, vikanezrimaya, tbbrown, [capjamesg], DusteD, [timothy_chambe], [Jo], [The_Frederatio], [aciccarello], fury999io, bret, [Joe_Crawford], kleb, [KevinMarks], IWSlackGateway, moose333, aaronpk, geoffo, jeremycherfas, Virtual, [0x3b0b], sebbu, srijan, chee, superkuh, barnaby, sivoais, bacardi55[m], sebsel, wagle, strugee-, lanodan, lockywolf, benji, gerben, chenghiz_, Soni, petermolnar, Guest1350, Zegnat, trwnh, kushal, lazcorp, gRegor, Guest6, handcode, dominik1, [Murray] and nertzy joined the channel
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_tommys would love to hear more capjamesg[d] !
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capjamesg emerges from a Pokéball.
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_tommys my limitations are: no server-side processing, can use the Neocities CLI to upload/push, do know a bit about python and happy to run py scripts on a task scheduler etc. - would like the final outcome to be: i just edit a very simple text document, and it will appear in the <html> of the /journal page
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capjamesg I use this library: https://pypi.org/project/Markdown/. It takes in a markdown file or text and turns it into HTML.
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capjamesg It should be a few lines of code to get everything set up and working.
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_tommys amazing, thank you
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capjamesg 🎉
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_tommys do you have an example of your workflow with this? just trying to picture how i'd use it
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bacardi55[m] _tommys: If you don't want to code too much, you can use static site generator that takes markdown files as input and generate a full sites, easy to automate with a few line of bash / python too.
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capjamesg I don't, sorry! My code has a lot going on and it's not the easiest to read 😢
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_tommys thank bacardi 🙂 i'll check that next if i get stuck
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_tommys so i've got something up and running: https://tsxyz.neocities.org/journal
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_tommys i'd like to be able to add a css style - having trouble finding that in the Markdown Py docs
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_tommys i suppose i can define it in the py script, and make the markdown do it's thing after the fact
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_tommys OK, i got it working how i like 🙂
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_tommys thanks for your help!
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capjamesg Oooh! That looks great!
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capjamesg _tommys[d]++
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Loqi _tommys[d] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[Jo] I also like it!
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[tantek] [snarfed] the use-case is "I am posting several photos however I want *this* photo to show up in any preview of my post" for multiphoto and album/collection posts
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[tantek] for putting u-featured on a u-photo
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[tantek] also as a hint to any POSSE services that if the destination only supports one photo from a multiphoto post, use *this* photo
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[snarfed] oh sure, I understand. I was thinking about when that collides with the idea to use u-featured to indicate a desired link to preview, https://indieweb.org/link-preview#which_link_to_preview
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[snarfed] for example, if a post has both content with links and photos, and the publisher has u-featured on a link and also on one of the photos
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[snarfed] we have heuristics to distinguish which is which, for these two different consuming use cases, but afaict nothing deterministic yet
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[tantek] maybe we need different names/terms for the two very different use-cases
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[tantek] and perhaps even with u-featured only on photos, we are overloading its usage (both for outside and inside)
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[snarfed] I always love parsing mf2 in the wild. u-url localhost:8080, what could go wrong :zany_face: https://www.tiffwhite.me/blog/real-genius
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[tantek] hah! should we place additional filters on URL parsing?
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[tantek] suggestions welcome! (though perhaps for #microformats mf2 parsing or issues on the mf2 spec if you have a specific thing we should filter out)
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sknebel personally I feel that's more on later stages. its not like you can trust URLs you receive/parse in other ways any more
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[tantek] yeah it's a spectrum between syntax errors and semantic errors and just bad resources at the other end
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[tantek] I think there's room in a parser to handle at least syntax errors and maybe some semantic errors, though yes, any consuming code should itself be hardened against "bad" URLs anyway
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[tantek] DusteD, RSS, as merely a file format, has nothing to do with realtime notifications, which requires a protocol
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DusteD [tantek], I'm terribly ignorant when it comes to realtime notifications outside of dedicated sockets like raw tcp or udp sockets, or websockets, and I suppose none of those are practical for this, so in a way, I don't know if you're suggesting a new protocol, or http2/push or what you mean, nevertheless, the message that someone went live should still be encapsulated into some format, maybe rss is a bad one for it, though it seems to have the fields
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DusteD we'd need, "who, when, where" basically ?
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DusteD unless we'd want to describe a protocol so specific to "going live" that there's no formats on top of the protocol, that seems maybe overkill ?
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gRegor what is websub
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Loqi WebSub is an open standard (W3C Recommendation) notification-based protocol for web publishing and subscribing to streams and legacy feed files in real time, previously known as PubSubHubbub or PuSH, and briefly PubSub https://indieweb.org/WebSub
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aaronpk websub is certainly enough to trigger a realtime notification about going live
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aaronpk of course you'd need something to get a notification to the end user, like web push API from that
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[tantek] ^ DusteD these are some of the possible answers. Note that various notification APIs, like Web Notifications have plain text
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[tantek] No need for RSS semantics
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DusteD I guess if you prefer plain text, but does that help the user navigate to the stream more than a semantic like "here's the url for the stream if you wanna watch" or to decide whether they want to watch by for example considering the time of it ?
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aaronpk not sure how that's relevant to RSS
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aaronpk what is the actual end user notification you want to see? probably something on a phone or in a OS notification tab. those certainly don't speak RSS.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "actual end user notification you want to see" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "actual end user notification you want to see is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk no Loqi
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DusteD I probably totally misunderstood the premise of the question; I tried (naively, as it were) to answer the question of how one might reasonably provide others with information that one has gone "live", and saw that well, you can encapsulate that information in an RSS feed, so that it's easy for any user of existing readers to discover that you've gone "live" and they can even click the link to be taken to the stream and watch it, but yeah, I have lost
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DusteD the premise, no idea what the actual question was.
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aaronpk you could put that info in an RSS feed, but that doesn't answer how someone would actually see the notification
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aaronpk something would have to take the RSS feed update and convert it to a platform push notification or webpush for example
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DusteD aaronpk, well, I guess they'd see it in their RSS reader, the software that's running on their PC or phone, that they use to consume RSS feeds ?
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aaronpk so i have to check my RSS reader to see the notification that I am supposed to get in real time then :)
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DusteD on my pc at least, thunderbird will do a notification when there's a new item on a feed I'm following ?
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DusteD like, a little thing the OS overlays on top of my existing view
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aaronpk see that's the missing step i was tryign to get you to explain
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DusteD it does this when I get mail too
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DusteD but that's existing functionlity, it's working right now today, it's been working the past 20 years ?
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aaronpk it's an assumption that was not spelled out
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gRegor An overlay for every new notification in a reader?
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DusteD I'm out :) I obviously have missed the problem to far I can't even see the way back.
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aaronpk in any case, receiving a realtime notification about a livestream starting isn't really any different than a realtime notification about any other post, so I don't really know what this discussion is about in the first place
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[snarfed] right
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[snarfed] an indieweb-native straw man end to end here could be something like
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[snarfed] • user A follows user B in a websub-enabled microsub-based reader
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[snarfed] • B goes live by posting a new post with some "I'm live" mf2, either a u-category with specific text, or new class, etc
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[snarfed] • B's server notifies websub subscribers, including A's microsub server
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[snarfed] • A enables notifs for B going live. either opt in, or the reader defaults these to on, etc
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[snarfed] • A's microsub server detects the "live" mf2 and sends a push notif to A's reader client out of band
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[snarfed] ideally we want all this to be possible for any posts. maybe the only new thing here could be that social readers have a new notif category for going live
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aaronpk or skip the whole dance and do it the way owncast does, where you visit the site and your browser asks if you want notifications, then the owncast server uses the browser's push API directly
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[snarfed] (once we agree on the u-category or whatever it is)
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_tommys 33
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_tommys sorry, cat
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[snarfed] true. kind of feels better to integrate with the "standard" notif stack described above, but per-site custom like that is doable
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aaronpk the main downside to the direct notification version is that each device is treated independently, so you'd have to click notify on your computer and phone if you wanted it on both
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aaronpk whereas the other approach can be smarter about how to deliver the notification since it ends up tied to your domain
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[snarfed] and more unified notif config for users in general, in their reader for all sites as opposed to one-offs
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gRegor !tell jamietanna, Have you written about how you post your podcast listens?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor I'm poking around PocketCasts for an option, unfortunately I think they only have OPML export/import currently
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gRegor There is a history page on the web app, so could scrape it I guess
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