gRegor[snarfed], so my domain is my bluesky handle, I guess if someone tries to follow my "Mastodon" posts in Bluesky with this... what are they getting? Do they just follow my BS account, or is some other account created?
[snarfed]in that case, it would generate a federated version of your AP account into Bluesky that people could see and follow and get the posts that you publish in the fediverse
gRegorI think I'm OK with this all so far, but do lean towards preferring opt-in for new networks/protocols. Like I'm not sure I want anyone on Nostr to be able to follow me that way.
gRegorThe perceived interactivity we talked about a bit before. I might be more OK with it if the "phantom" nostr profile description clearly said it was a bridge, maybe something about responses may not be seen or something.
[tantek][snarfed] the difference is following in some random instance/server/network somewhere presents an opportunity for the users of that instances/server/network to create a massive pile-on trolling effect. feed readers have no such interaction dynamics/features across users of that feed reader
gRegorMaybe another angle for me: I feel like I've chosen ways to distribute my posts that are accessible to most: Atom feed, email subscription, h-feed, and a bit of Mastodon. It doesn't feel like much of a value add for me to add Nostr to that list
[snarfed]or, it's much more by culture and feel, as tantek described earlier, eg "Mastodon users are ok with their posts federating to other sites that also look like Mastodon"
gRegorFrom the moderate people post, "If Alice opts into bridging her Bluesky account to the fediverse, people there will see her and her posts, but she won’t see their replies or other interactions."
[snarfed]ah yes. so yes, if the bridge was opt in, and you opted in, you still wouldn't get replies etc from across the bridge unless they were from people who had also opted in
[snarfed]sure! abuse in online social networks clearly exists, and is definitely shaped and amplified (or suppressed) by technical and UX decisions. I'm not ignoring any of that. the point from moderate people not code is that drawing lines by network or protocol is becoming a limited, weaker, and more problematic way to address abuse, especially now given how much shared moderation tooling has developed
gRegorI don't have any suggestions really for the framing, but "opt out is not consent" I do find a compelling argument and I feel a bit uneasy lumping all the criticism as a mob
[tantek]Mostly I think it is a misunderstanding that (most?) such angry folks don't understand they're being default opted-into "bridging" with new Mastodon instances all the time
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "Mastodon tho" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Mastodon tho is ____", a sentence describing the term)
LoqiLemmy is open source bookmarking and commenting software that supports ActivityPub so multiple instances can in essence provide a distributed version of Reddit, and it supports at least sending Webmentions as well https://indieweb.org/Lemmy
gRegorRight, but before today a lot of these people might have had some general idea their posts federate with "Mastodon like" things, and Bluesky was not that. Right? Even if they don't know the plumbing terms.
[tantek]this is the key misconception upon which that anger is based. also a good lesson in common-person misunderstanding and mis-assignment of meaning to jargon
aaronpki just re-read the announcement post, and there's barely a description of what bridging actually means for people. It seems like the takeaway from it is "bluesky=bad" and then they get mad
gRegorI mean, I get the skepticism for Bluesky, and it sounds bad if millions more people from there may suddenly be able to interact with you, especially if you've been through abuse waves on Twitter
[snarfed]generously, I think for many of them, it may be a bit more that bluesky is *other*, and they want to say inside the fediverse lines they think they've drawn
[tantek]look, if folks really care about "opt-in" to every single "thing" they're being bridged to, they ought to petition Mastodon to make all public "federating" opt-in, so that every time a new server tries to follow their profile, they have to approve it
[snarfed](tangent, one amusing bit is that unlike the fediverse, Bluesky doesn't have a way for people to trigger "discovery" of an account that isn't already in the search index. so the way BF's Bluesky support is designed right now, fediverse accounts do have to be "opted into" bridging by someone manually triggering creating them on the BF web site)
[snarfed]> Mastodon was built on the concept of interoperability and decentralization. Mastodon doesn't even know if the server on the other end is Mastodon or not, and does not care, as long as it speaks the same standard protocol, ActivityPub. To discriminate against non-Mastodon software would be antithetical to the project's values.
[Al_Abut]Thanks for the debugging session earlier [gRegorLove] - I finally got netlify working again and the fixes are up. Feels SO good to finally have the social previews working as intended with proper aspect ratios and no pixelation… whew!
[Al_Abut]In a twisted kind of way, I’m still glad for all of the marathon tinkering session because I’m still curious to try the indieweb-style “just mark up what’s already there and not separate meta tags” approach, I kind of see the light on it now
[Al_Abut]I’m really curious to try the srcset approach, play with a two-birds-one-stone thing of customizing responsive images for different layouts *and* social sharing at the same time
gRegorI meant, I sign in and say "yes, federate my AP to Bluesky", no follow requests needed. I get that it breaks down, though, I couldn't then immediately follow a Bluesky account unless they had opted in too.
[tantek]there's all sorts of different conditions. how much is copied (at a time), how long does it stay around etc. e.g. "time-shifting" is its own thing
epochseems like a bridge is somewhere in the middle grey area between "a human made a copy that violates copyright law" and "a machine made an automated copy that isn't covered"
[Murray]Yeah, one of the things I've been most impressed with having now joined Bluesky is the wealth of diverse communities (and diversity within communities) I'm finding there. Maybe it's just because I didn't really pick any interests or feeds to immediately sign up to, but I'm getting a lot of queer and furry suggestions, which is fun and unexpected
[Murray]I'm sure there are lots of rough edges, moderation issues, etc. (I've heard of a few) but to call it immediately unsafe doesn't seem to track with the people using it
Soni[snarfed]: hello, may we set up mitmproxy and block-meta-from-fedi in front of our servers so that requests from your bridge come right back at your bridge?
bacardi55[m]Hi, maybe a dumb quick question about bookmarks post type… I can see it needs a "u-bookmark-of" and "h-cite". The "h-cite" seems to be used for the title of the bookmarked page. What about quotes of the page? Should I put 2 h-cite within the h-entry?
bacardi55[m]Also, do bookmarks (or posts in general) must have their own dedicated page? Or could the h-entry u-url permalink be an anchor in a page (i don't see the utility to have a page per bookmarks, so permalink to the right anchor within the bookmark listing page)
[tantek]capjamesg, [KevinMarks] and other folks here in W3C SocialCG, are you going to the joint meeting with CCG? I’m going to try to make the second half
Loqi“ A quotation is a type of response post that is primarily a subset of the contents of another post, and often has a citation of that other post https://indieweb.org/quote
[KevinMarks]There isn't as part of http://indiewebify.me, though that's a good idea. You can preview it with parsers though I'm not sure which ones support bookmark specifically
[tantek]bacardi55[m], can you file an issue on indiewebifyme requesting a Bookmark post validator to attempt to check / validate at least some of the guidelines as documented on /bookmark ?
gRegor Gotcha. And in AP if they follow gregorlove.com@bsky.brid.gy, would that be following https://bsky.app/profile/gregorlove.com?
[snarfed] er sorry make that http://gregorlove-com-gregorlove-com.ap.brid.gy
[tantek] [snarfed] the difference is following in some random instance/server/network somewhere presents an opportunity for the users of that instances/server/network to create a massive pile-on trolling effect. feed readers have no such interaction dynamics/features across users of that feed reader
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Mastodon tho" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Mastodon tho is ____", a sentence describing the term)
[KevinMarks] Wait, am I bridging without opt-in by pasting links?
[Murray] Yeah, one of the things I've been most impressed with having now joined Bluesky is the wealth of diverse communities (and diversity within communities) I'm finding there. Maybe it's just because I didn't really pick any interests or feeds to immediately sign up to, but I'm getting a lot of queer and furry suggestions, which is fun and unexpected
bacardi55[m] Hi, maybe a dumb quick question about bookmarks post type… I can see it needs a "u-bookmark-of" and "h-cite". The "h-cite" seems to be used for the title of the bookmarked page. What about quotes of the page? Should I put 2 h-cite within the h-entry?
aaronpk Am I getting the 401 error because the GET isn't signed? https://xray.p3k.app/parse?pretty=true&url=https%3A%2F%2Fqueer.party%2F%40DelphineUnseen%2F111924452286025913
[aciccarello] I'd like to at least see the post type discovery algorithm result on that h-entry result page