#dev 2024-02-14

2024-02-14 UTC
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[tantek] bacardi55[m] I think requesting a bookmark post validator makes the most sense because if we can codify some of our rules / guidelines / best practices into a validator, that will help more people help themselves.
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[tantek] separately, I think aciccarello's suggestion *also* makes sense, but is a different feature
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bacardi55[m] Ok will do.
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[tantek] thank you!
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[tantek] all this talk of indiewebifyme has me reviewing the open PRs: https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/pulls
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[tantek] gRegor or someone more familiar with PHP/PHPUnit/Guzzle versions/isms, can you check PRs 112 & 113 to see if they are safe / make sense to land when you have a moment? https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/pull/112
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[tantek] I don't know enough the the specific technologies involved to offer an informed opinion about these PRs
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[tantek] about* the
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bacardi55[m] Thanks to implementing indieweb markups, I've been tinkering with my blog like it is 2005 for the past month, which is great :]
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[aciccarello] I created https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/118 for the post type discovery piece.
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Loqi [preview] [aciccarello] #118 h-entry validator should indicate post type
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[aciccarello] Didn't gRegor want to update the framework on indiewebify-me or something? I don't know much PHP but indiewebify-me is a project I'd love to contribute at some point.
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[tantek] same. how do we lower the (coding etc. knowledge) barriers to contributing to indiewebifyme?
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[tantek] AKA simpler (as little as possible?) "toolchain"
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gRegor Yeah, I have an in-progress version of it running on /Slim since barnaby and I are both familiar with that and it's a good balance of powerful and lightweight. Given how out of date the current site's framework is (it's been EOL for years), I hem and haw about whether to apply incremental PRs like that or focus more on the new version. I will set a goal to at least get what I have up in a github branch so others can look at
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gRegor it and try it out.
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gRegor https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues/82
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aaronpk gRegor++
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Loqi gRegor has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (95 in all channels)
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gRegor (by the end of the month. I thought that but apparently forgot to type it, haha)
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[tantek] gRegor++ I support you judgment and decision either way
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Loqi gRegor has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (96 in all channels)
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[tantek] your* judgment even
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[tantek] and you 🙂
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gRegor :)
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[tantek] BridgyFed++ for working smoothly
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Loqi BridgyFed has 11 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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[tantek] [snarfed] I noticed ~60 undeliverables in my most recent post federated via BridgyFed, compared to ~30 in the previous few. Does that indicate that ~30 (more?) instances may have fediblocked BridgyFed in the past day or so?
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[KevinMarks] The angry fedi people are blocking all of http://brid.gy I think
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[aciccarello] I was wondering if that would happen
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[tantek] If so that's quite some fallout
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[KevinMarks] An interesting point on bridgy https://akko.erincandescent.net/objects/00764c2a-f6ea-4c92-a7cd-1b7e60ecff65
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[KevinMarks] Another thoughtful response. Which possibly argues for a change in how mastodon works https://mastodon.me.uk/@CatherineFlick/111929330291726562
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Loqi [preview] [Prof. Catherine Flick] As someone who did her PhD on consent I just want to flag a few things in the bsky bridge discussion. One: medical style disclosure based consent (terms and conditions, EULAs etc.) is totally inappropriate for this sort of situation and has been for ...
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[tantek] !tell [snarfed] this is very odd, https://fed.brid.gy/web/tantek.com shows that 296 instances got my latest post, however when I spot checked https://mastodon.social/tags/microformats2 and https://indieweb.social/tags/microformats2 (servers I expect have NOT blocked BridgyFed) I did not see my latest post listed. Also, zero reactions on the Notifications tab which is unusual (though not impossible obviously).
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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gRegor Last post of yours I see on that instance is February 4. Guessing it was one of the 60 that failed, shown under the 296
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gRegor Big jump in failures there, from 31 to 60
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[tantek] right, asked about the jump in failures last night, I hink
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[tantek] think*
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[tantek] just to be sure [timothy_chambe] has indieweb.social blocked BridgyFed?
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[tantek] also makes me wonder if BridgyFed is under some other sort of attack
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[campegg] [tantek] I don't think indieweb.social has blocked Bridgy Fed; my posts are showing up (https://indieweb.social/@cam@campegg.com)
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gRegor I have a hard time with the logs figuring out which ones failed. I have 1 that fails for me consistently
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[campegg] And Tim also posted a pretty strong statement of support: https://indieweb.social/@tchambers/111926373215445212
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[schmarty] this post seems to be magic that must be viewed from the standpoint of an activitypub server/client, haha
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[schmarty] https://puckipedia.com/4th-wall--talki
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[schmarty] in my reader it says: "hey you yes you, on http://fed.brid.gy you are good"
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[snarfed] hi all! I'm still alive 😁
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[snarfed] [tantek] you're right, I don't see your post on eg https://indieweb.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com , not sure why
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[tantek] [snarfed] glad you are ok 🙂
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[snarfed] re BF getting blocked, I tried to say explicitly that http://bsky.brid.gy was the domain for admins to block, and avoid blowback on the non-bluesky parts of the domain, but inevitably some admins blocked *.http://brid.gy
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[snarfed] sorry all
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[tantek] oof that's some nasty fallout/collateral damage
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[tantek] what is deduplication
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Loqi deduplication (de-duplication AKA deduping/de-duping) is the process of comparing responses (sometimes posts) and seeing if they are exactly or essentially the same, and only keeping the earliest or most canonical version, perhaps keeping track of alternative URLs, like syndicated copies https://indieweb.org/deduplication
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[tantek] Need to add reader use cases to that
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Soni [snarfed]: did you get our messages?
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aaronpk omg HTTP Signatures just became an RFC! https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc9421
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GWG aaronpk: How do you feel about that?
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[tantek] aaronpk, technically it was an RFC before also. do you mean it just became a Proposed Standard?
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[snarfed] Soni: the one about using mitmproxy and block-meta-from-fedi to bounce Bridgy Fed's requests back it? you're welcome to if you want
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[snarfed] and of course you don't need my permission
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aaronpk it got its RFC number
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[tantek] what's the use-case to "bounce Bridgy Fed's requests back it"?
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Soni there is an actual, fully-featured implementation of poisoning somewhere https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/poisoning-and-privacy/3787
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[tantek] poisoning is not a use-case. if anything that seems like disrespectful behavior
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Soni the use case is primarily to point this at instances the admin deems malicious
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[tantek] Bridgy Fed is not malicious
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Soni plenty of ppl would disagree with that assertion
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Soni but honestly? you're right. we just wanna convince someone to implement this so we can point it at every last soapbox instance under the sun.
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[tantek] if you think it is malicious why are you bothering to try to have a conversation with its creator / maintainer?
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[tantek] I think it's fairly disrespectful to the community to engage in hostile behavior towards a service that many of us in the community depend on
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[tantek] what does Bridgy Fed have to do with soapboxes even metaphorically?
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Soni it is the current meta and we figured we could use the current meta to get some pretty useful moderation tools going for us
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[tantek] I'd say such "poisoning" is at least a violation of the code of conduct in spirit if not literally.
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[tantek] what is code of conduct
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Loqi 🌈 IndieWeb code of conduct tl;dr: Be respectful of other people, respectfully ask people to stop if you are bothered, and if you can't resolve an issue, contact staff. If you are being a problem, it will be apparent and you'll be asked to leave https://indieweb.org/Code-Of-Conduct
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Soni (unfortunately nobody's made new moderation tools for the fedi in years...)
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[tantek] moderation++ and moderationtools++
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Loqi moderationtools has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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Loqi moderation has 1 karma over the last year
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Soni poisoning would be great seriously, it's a deeply underrated moderation tool
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aaronpk anyway i'm really excited about RFC9421! maybe we can finally get some better library support for it now, and then we could even profile it for authenticated feed fetches!
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Soni (in its simplest form, it provides shadow banning for instances. shadow defederating?)
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Soni (unlike regular defed where it blasts the instance with 403 forbidden or whatever)
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[tantek] [snarfed] I've tried posting an update to that post and looks like Bridgy Fed has received the update and is processing it. Will see if that makes it out to any sites
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[tantek] jamietanna I spot check the tags pages on various instances that I know have worked in the past
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[snarfed] thanks [tantek]! Updates don't usually make posts visible if they weren't before, sadly, but who knows
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[tantek] so maybe I should change the permalink/slug to trick Bridgy Fed into thinking it's a new post?
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[jamietanna] Fair. Was wondering for ie https://fed.brid.gy/log?path=%2Fqueue%2Fwebmention%2C%2Finbox&start_time=1707947775&key=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jvt.me%2Fmf2%2F2024%2F02%2Fli7ld%2F%23bridgy-fed-create so I guess I'd go into each of those servers and see if it can see me?
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Loqi [jamietanna]: gRegor left you a message 5 days, 22 hours ago: you written about how you post your podcast listens?
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[tantek] jamietanna, also searching for yourself on an instance and looking for its view of your profile
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[tantek] e.g. I check https://w3c.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com
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[tantek] and scroll to see if it has my latest post
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[snarfed] [tantek] I suspect something else happened that wasn't transient, so I kinda doubt redoing the Create will fix it, but you're welcome to try
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[snarfed] I'll look, but may take a day or two, I got a bit busy all of a sudden 😁
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[jamietanna] !tell gRegor sorry I missed that! No I don't think I have - what sort of things would you want to see? Just how I'm tracking them? (tis very manual, no fun automation here aside from Micropub 😂)
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] no worries [snarfed] totally understand
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[tantek] I'll try to keep gathering data in the mean time
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gRegor [jamietanna], Aha, yeah I was wondering if it was automated in any way. I poked around in Pocket Casts a bit, they have a good history page in the web app but it appears to be React driven and no public APIs for it, so might just try manual until it hurts.
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Loqi gRegor: [jamietanna] left you a message 1 minute ago: sorry I missed that! No I don't think I have - what sort of things would you want to see? Just how I'm tracking them? (tis very manual, no fun automation here aside from Micropub 😂)
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[jamietanna] The closest I got was https://www.jvt.me/posts/2022/04/28/podcast-addict-sqlite/ but I now just post a Listen as I'm finishing the episode
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[jamietanna] As it's much more real-time
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gRegor Do you upload the podcast image each time too then?
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[jamietanna] Ah, no I don't - I fetch cite data via https://opengraph-mf2.tanna.dev/ and then render that
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gRegor Ooh, nice.
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gRegor Another good use-case for metaformats in mf2 parsers :)
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gRegor I'd not seen this converter, very cool! [jamietanna]++
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Loqi [jamietanna] has 2 karma over the last year
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[jamietanna] Thanks! It's been super handy for cites/contexts that seems to support most sites as a fall back when MF2 isn't there
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[jamietanna] That reminds me of all my other /pipes - https://indieweb.org/pipes
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