#dev 2024-02-16

2024-02-16 UTC
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gRegor Hm, I should cross-post into micro.blog again. I think I stopped in 2020 due to issues with my feed, or maybe it was because I had replies to Twitter going into m.b. so that didn't make sense.
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[tantek] yeah I had replies going to my Atom feed / http://micro.blog for a while and it was noisy for folks on http://micro.blog unfortunately. I did turn that off a while ago but probably took me too long to figure that out
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gRegor Maybe I need to add an audience to my posts so I can filter which posts go in the m.b. feed
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gRegor I could filter *all* reply posts, but imagining I would like to reply to m.b. people
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[tantek] oh yeah that would take some work. I can't do that yet either
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[tantek] wait I mean I think "just" using Webmention to reply to people on http://micro.blog may actually work
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gRegor Oh interesting
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[tantek] the other trick that might work is replying to their http://micro.blog fedi handle, and then using Bridgy Fed to "federate" the reply
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[tantek] haven't tried either but both worth a try! and reporting back what you discover 🙂
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gRegor heh, yep the json feed I set up for this is 404, so I broke something :)
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[tantek] then I volunteer to help write-up a "How to reply from your site" section on /micro.blog 🙂
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gRegor Haha, was just typing that yeah, I could update https://indieweb.org/Micro.blog#How_to_syndicate_to after my experience
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[tantek] oh yeah! though technically we should be able to directly reply, not have to "syndicate" a reply
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[tantek] e.g. on Twitter we always had to "syndicate" replies
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gRegor This is coming back to me. I think my reply here was via webmention: https://micro.blog/gRegorLove/633461
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[tantek] that's a very good sign
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[aciccarello] This might be a dumb question, but why cross-post into http://micro.blog?
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[aciccarello] I assume someone on http://micro.blog can follow/reply to your main site, no?
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gRegor Cross-post isn't quite right, it links back to my original posts
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gRegor But it's a nice community and there's some people I know mainly post there, just figured I'd try it out
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[aciccarello] Is it a discovery thing?
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gRegor I haven't kept up, not sure you can follow any site in mb?
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Soni [snarfed]: can you make a bridge between ipv4-only instances and ipv6-only instances?
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gRegor [aciccarello], More that I want to experience more of that online community. If mb does support them just following my site like a reader, I don't think it lets them reply.
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gRegor But if they do reply to a post on https://micro.blog/gRegorLove, then I (should?) get a webmention
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gRegor [manton], is it possible to turn off our @micro.blog fediverse handle? Or can I specify it should be @gregorlove.com@gregorlove.com?
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gRegor Nice, all the posts in my Atom feed populated, pretty accurately too. One link on a like didn't work, but other likes worked
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gRegor New one showed up quickly too (also in -stream)
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[tantek] I link the likes in my feed were particularly noisy to http://micro.blog readers
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[tantek] apparently Mastodon folks are interested in fixing the current js;dr problems, this is good to hear: https://hachyderm.io/@thisismissem/111938332047014307
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[tantek] ^ [snarfed] FYI I didn't see this reply in my dashboard https://fed.brid.gy/web/tantek.com/notifications — I only noticed it because I saw a "replies 1" count in the view of my post on [KevinMarks] profile where he had reposted it then when I clicked through once on the date it showed my post in the context of XOXO.zone where I was able to see Emelia's reply
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[tantek] is it possible that http://hachyderm.io has blocked Bridgy Fed so notifications aren't being sent for replies/mentions? Though if that's the case, how did Emelia see my post in the first place? Due to following [KevinMarks] on XOXO.zone? I thought fediblocks didn't allow reposts of content either so if that's the case still confused.
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[tantek] just found this https://joinfediverse.wiki/FediBlock
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[aciccarello] Seirdy's site is listed as a source on that page
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gRegor !tell [manton] I think the timezone got dropped on the published date for my post via webmention. "2024-02-15 17:15-0800" in my post showed up "2024-02-15T17:15:00+00:00" on https://blog.grotenhuis.info/2024/02/15/how-did-i.html
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [preview] 🎶 How did I not know that there’s basically a new Cornerstone Festival? (Audiofeed) That said, likely to be way more bands I want to see at Furnace Fest, which I intend to go to again this year.
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[tantek] aciccarello, yes, and it's Oliphant's Tier 0 that Bridgy is in: https://writer.oliphant.social/oliphant/the-oliphant-social-blocklist
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[tantek] directly in the "Recommended “Bare Minimum” List"
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Loqi [preview] [The Oliphant] Oliphant.Social Mastodon Blocklists https://media.oliphant.social/oliphant/media_attachments/files/109/734/248/264/344/008/original/c47ca96bf1714e32.png
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[tantek] lol that preview image goodness
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[tantek] aciccarello from what I can tell, Bridgy is not in Seirdy's blocklists
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[tantek] or fediseer for that matter
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[tantek] [snarfed] another update re: Emelia replies, her *second* reply did show up in my dashboard, perhaps because it mentioned [KevinMarks] first? Curious
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[manton] gRegor: Yes, you can either “reset” the fediverse handle or migrate it to a new handle. Migrating is nice because it moves any followers you have and also updates the link on http://Micro.blog. Not sure if Bridgy Fed supports migrating yet. But either way, the option is on Account → View fediverse details.
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gRegor I *think* it was just set up today when I signed in, so not sure I have any followers. Was wondering if I could change the link that appears on micro.blog/gRegorLove
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[manton] Currently migrating is the only way to change that. But I think I can manually change it.
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[snarfed] migration is on the BF todo list! https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/330
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[snarfed] [tantek] interesting! I'll try to take a look at the first one that didn't make it to your dashboard
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[tantek] well this is another perspective on Fediblocking: https://social.wedistribute.org/notice/AevRxl35jsdzF4QnKK
jeremycherfas, tPoltergeist, geoffo, bterry, gRegor, [jeremycherfas], [Jo], oodani, [pfefferle], [Joel_Auterson], [Paul_Robert_Ll], burley, jeremy, jonnybarnes and lagomorph_ joined the channel
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capjamesg This is interesting: https://opensource.googleblog.com/2024/02/magika-ai-powered-fast-and-efficient-file-type-identification.html
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[jamietanna] Capjamesg however https://mastodon.social/@ghalfacree/111940737721267218
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[jamietanna] Anyone seen this error with BF before? Wondering if it's related to the last few days or not
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[jamietanna] ```403 Client Error: Forbidden for url: https://toot.cat/users/endocrimes ; {"error":"Public key not found for key ```" target="_blank">https://fed.brid.gy/fed.brid.gy#key"}```
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[jamietanna] When trying to follow someone
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capjamesg Oof.
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[Joel_Auterson] looks like theyve blocked bridgy
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[Joel_Auterson] `3rd-party opt-out bridge to BSky (was originally only http://bsky.brid.gy subdomain, but now there's http://fedi.brid.gy; owner can't be trusted not to add more)`
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[manton] That “trusted” comment at the end is uncalled for. Very disappointing.
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[manton] Wonder if Bridgy Fed needs to move more to using people’s own domain name for all URLs?
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[KevinMarks] Or we can run more instances of it
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[jamietanna] The worry about doing more instances could lead to "they're trying to evade the FediBlock by running different URLs", ie if one person turns on a Bsky bridge we may all get tainted
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[snarfed] someone inevitably will, regardless of which software they use, just like there are multiple twitter bridges and multiple web bridges
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[snarfed] yeah afaik 403 "public key not found" and 404 on the inbox POST will generally be the result of blocks
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[snarfed] s/will/may/
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[manton] Are there any copies of Bridgy or Bridgy Fed currently running somewhere? I often think about it as a single service (and I even have some hardcoded http://brid.gy checks in http://Micro.blog, which I probably shouldn’t) but it’s interesting to think about 2-3 large installs of it.
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[snarfed] not that I know of
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[snarfed] I've mildly discouraged it because it's known primarily as a single service, so if more popped up, I expect people would get confused as to which is which, which one I run, which ones have bug fixes or not, etc
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[snarfed] I haven't designed it to be self-hosted or other-hosted
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[snarfed] ...but it's open source!
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[manton] Good to know, that helps, and it matches my assumptions too. Bridgy feels like a product, just one that you are generous to give away.
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[snarfed] glad it comes across that way!
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[tantek] FYI anyone running Mastodon, new dot rev (likely security fix) https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/releases/tag/v4.2.7
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[tantek] I see indieweb.social is already updated [timothy_chambe]++
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Loqi [timothy_chambe] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (19 in all channels)
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capjamesg Go update your Mastodon servers, admins.
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jacky pushes the "update" button
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[KevinMarks] https://social.coop/@brainwane/111942122721142326
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Loqi [preview] [Sumana Harihareswara] This year will be the 20th anniversary of @leonardr's #Python screen-scraping tool Beautiful Soup. https://www.harihareswara.net/posts/2024/celebrate-beautiful-soups-20th-anniversary/ Please contact me if you'd like to contribute to the celebration...
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[tantek] does Beautiful Soup support h-feed yet?
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sknebel wrong level
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sknebel its a component we use in mf2py
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[Murray] https://front-end.social/@ashur/111941985629273632
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[tantek] sknebel, ah I'm mistaking it for something else
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[Murray] ^ just an interesting view I've not seen before
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Loqi [preview] [Ashur Cabrera] Different but related — the built-in RSS feed for every Mastodon account has always rubbed me the wrong way. 📣 Any toot less restricted than “Followers Only” can be syndicated outside the fediverse, including “Unlisted” 🚮 As Robb me...
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[tantek] [Murray] and this is exactly why I have a delay on when my posts make it to my Atom feed. Legacy feed readers do not support deletes, and rarely support updates
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[tantek] I fully expect someone has built a Mastodon search engine based on slow/quiet RSS feed crawling/polling and will reveal it fait acompli at some point in the future when it has a large corpus
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[tantek] It will be planned to generate maximum outrage in the "fediverse" as a means to get tech press
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[tantek] alright back on a more productive topic
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[tantek] I want to document a "How to" publish a "minimal" h-entry, author, dt-published, e-content to reply to posts like https://hachyderm.io/@thisismissem/111938332047014307 to request that implementations take their code for generating meta tags, and use it to generate a minimal h-entry either instead or in addition
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Loqi [preview] [Emelia 👸🏻] @tantek.com good post, fwiw, there's some complicated history surrounding that change, and there's a long term goal to fix that, but it's a rather hard and difficult path due to how everything's been built. There was some discussion in the mastodon d...
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[tantek] If we came up with both minimal h-entry markup and static inline CSS to style it to look non-sucky (e.g. not just superwide line of long unreadable text), and ideally as nice as any link-preview, I have a feeling at least some developers/projects would happily copy/paste that into a template
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[tantek] let's remove the distributed/collective barrier of having to figure out how to make that minimal h-entry + CSS, because I have a feeling that's a spot where lots of devs get stuck overthinking it and give up
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aaronpk this is a great idea
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to2ds non-sucky-static-inline-css++
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Loqi non-sucky-static-inline-css has 1 karma over the last year
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[KevinMarks] Another deep criticism from Hrefna https://hachyderm.io/@hrefna/111942682708117990
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aaronpk hard agree on AP wants to be the entire model of the world all the way to your database
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aaronpk this is also why I prefer protocols that only talk about the transport format and leave the underlying implementation up to the implementer
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GWG aaronpk: I'd++ that but not sure what I'd call what I'm plussing.
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aaronpk hehe
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[tantek] separation of concerns, layering, there's lots of ways to put it
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[tantek] GWG, here's a [Jeremy_Keith] blog post on topic that's a bit webdev-centric but still applicable to designing protocols/formats in philosophy & methodology: https://adactio.com/journal/14103
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[KevinMarks] The way granary works is a good example - Ryan picked a single format to base things on, and translated the others into and out of that.
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[KevinMarks] Any time you're accepting external data you need to validate it, and do some kind of cleanup and fallback.
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[KevinMarks] One reason the mf2 approach is fairly robust is that it doesn't pretend to be the universal perfect storage format, just a set of rules to make the format into something consistent that you can the decide how to map into your internal model, and how to express it on the way out.
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[tantek] the other thing that makes it fairly robust is that it is fairly straightforward after parsing to treat the resulting bits you're interested in as key/value pairs inside whatever other data structure / schema you have
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[manton] gRegor: Finally getting to this… I updated your profile to point to @gregorlove.com@gregorlove.com. It’s a little weird because the M.b account wasn’t actually migrated away, but for all practical purposes it’s the same for folks browsing the profile on M.b.
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gRegor thanks!
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gRegor I'm just filing an issue now with the webmention datetime details
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gRegor I'm not too worried, I presumed if someone replied to the @micro.blog handle it would show up in m.b
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[manton] Yep, it should. (I see the date issue, thanks…)
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GWG [tantek]: I just thought ++ protocols that only talk about the transport format was too long a ++
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[tantek] to be fair AP *tries* to do that while separating the actual transport *format* in AS2
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[tantek] fascinating, some folks are sticking with Masto 3.5 purely for the SSR: https://mamot.fr/@nemobis/111940069819020421
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aaronpk wow
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to2ds Arem there security issues with Masto 3.5 given the latest waves of updates?
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to2ds arem=aren't
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aaronpk they ported the fix to 3.5
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aaronpk https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/releases/tag/v3.5.19
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[tantek] nice
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to2ds [aaronpk] Ah! Thank you. Didn't realize v3 was still a thing.
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aaronpk it isn't really, except for this emergency fix
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aaronpk they also say it won't get any future security updates. but they said that before this one too 🤷‍♂️
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[tantek] it's like WordPress with v4 vs v5 right? Except that's on main Masto repo so that looks more well supported than, what is the WordPress v4 fork called? ClassicPress?
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aaronpk https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/releases/tag/v3.5.17 "The 3.5.x branch will not receive any update—including security fixes—after this one."
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aaronpk https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/releases/tag/v3.5.18 "The 3.5.x branch will not receive any update—including security fixes—after this one."
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aaronpk https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/releases/tag/v3.5.19 "Caution: The 3.5.x branch will not receive any update—including security fixes—after this one."
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to2ds Though v3 could be around forever, given Perl 5 as an example 😄
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aaronpk 🙃
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gRegor lol
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gRegor we mean it, last security fix!
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to2ds lol!
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[tantek] finalfinal3.master.v5
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to2ds lol!
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to2ds To be fair, Perl 5 was my intro to regex.
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[KevinMarks] So should we go for a ssr patch to 4 to restore mf2 html?
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[KevinMarks] I'm still running python 2.7 in some places
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to2ds [KevinMarks] - Can it be 2 to 3'd?
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[tantek] PHP7++
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Loqi PHP7 has 1 karma over the last year
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[KevinMarks] No, because it's in AppEngine and they deprecated all the things it calls so I need to rewrite it
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to2ds [KevinMarks] - Oh man! Hopefully not too many 3rd-party dependencies.
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Loqi PHP8 has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (0 in all channels)
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gRegor PHP8++
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[tantek] to2ds, re: how to publisher author information in an h-feed from #microformats
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[tantek] -> https://indieweb.org/authorship#Authorship_for_streams_of_posts
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to2ds [tantek] - Thank you. Think I'm still confused on the use cases of the microformats consumer.
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[tantek] ideally as a publisher you can follow the guidance that works the best for your site and not have to worry about specific / varying microformats consuming code
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[tantek] the whole point of a standard is that you can publish in a way that "just works" across a variety of consuming code without having to know about or test each and every one
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to2ds The ref you posted makes more sense. Author would be a child of h-feed.
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to2ds And sibling to h-entry.
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to2ds Microformats is less rigid than it appears.
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[tantek] very much so
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gRegor what is authorship testing tool
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Loqi The authorship testing tool is a service to run the authorship algorithm for a URL. It's sometimes referred to as Sturdy Backbone based on the URL Glitch automatically generated https://indieweb.org/authorship_testing_tool
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gRegor ^ good for permalinks, don't think it does h-feed
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to2ds [gRegor] - IndieWeb is the gift that keeps on giving! ☺️
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[tantek] aaronpk, curious what manner of mention notifications you received (if any) from my IndieWeb wiki design update post
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[tantek] e.g. via webmention or AP or both or neither
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[tantek] and which came first if there were multiple
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aaronpk i got a webmention!
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[tantek] woohoo!
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Loqi 😊