#dev 2024-03-21

2024-03-21 UTC
[tantek], [benatwork], jeremycherfas, alephalpha0, btrem, rrix, sebbu2, [contact898], lazcorp, [dominik], ttybitnik, Guest6 and mahboubine joined the channel
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mahboubine I know webmention.io can send webmentions to my site
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mahboubine but how can I make my website send webmentions to other sites?
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jeremycherfas One way to do so is with Telegraph https://telegraph.p3k.io
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bacardi55[m] telegraph++ , works very well!
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Loqi telegraph has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] I need to write a follow-up post about my experience with posting, federating, POSSEing a manual plain text /poll post.
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[tantek] it was surprising. most responses on Twitter, then less than half of that on my IG story, then *zero* on Threads.
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redblobgames In my circles, most everyone who migrated from twitter to bluesky/mastodon/threads has moved back, or stopped posting altogether :-/
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mahboubine going through the webmention spec right now
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jacky feels like a lot but might be handy for those not wanting to fiddle with their local PKI https://anchor.dev/docs
[Joe_Crawford], [schmarty], gRegor, [KevinMarks], btrem and geskeca joined the channel
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[tantek] we're talking about how trailing spaces as "an instruction" e.g. 2+ trailing spaces on a line to mean preserve line-break, is a fragile and suboptimal way of encoding hard linebreaks
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[tantek] per what Markdown does
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redblobgames Oh, maybe I shouldn't run M-x delete-trailing-whitespace on markdown files
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[tantek] whereas a better option is: linebreak after a visible character = hard (semantic) line break, whereas linebreak after a single space character = soft (presentational) line break
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[tantek] lol definitely not. markdown--
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Loqi markdown has -3 karma in this channel over the last year (-2 in all channels)
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aaronpk i can't believe anyone thought two trailing spaces was a good idea
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[tantek] aaronpk, two trailing spaces, like most things in Markdown, was the workaround hack consequence of a prior bad design decision (treating linebreaks after visible characters as soft/presentational breaks)
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capjamesg https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/21/networking-traffic/threads-has-entered-the-fediverse/
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[tantek] well that was quick
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jacky lots of interesting points there
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jacky noticing a bit of a trend but need to use my blog for this lol
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btrem Picking up from indieweb, the h-card icon needed multiple, chained c commands in the path. But trying to do that in VS Code was just too tedious. So I went with "good enough." :/
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btrem To see the difference, you'd probably need to display the SuperTinyIcons version with the one from the Indieweb wiki, blown up to a fairly large size, and do an a-b comparison.
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btrem I'm now in the same situation with h-feed. A simple arc command should do the trick, but alas, the points will not line up. So looks like I'll have to muck around with a cubic bezier.
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btrem sighs
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[tantek] ^ [Paul_Robert_Ll] FYI - would appreciate your input here as to the intent / approach of the details in these icons
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btrem [KevinMarks]: Can't use SVGOMG for two reasons: (a) I have to scale the images; SuperTinyIcons are all 512x512, whereas the indieweb versions are 192x192. And (b) I'm simplifying the path to save bytes; instead of a path around each curve, with a white fill, I'm using a path with a wide stroke and no fill, reducing the commands.
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gRegor [tantek], just tried to follow you on threads via BF. I think it worked based on https://fed.brid.gy/web/gregorlove.com, though not showing up in my following list there yet. Do I show up in your follower list?
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gRegor Oh, probably not. From the BF log: "Returning 400: Couldn't determine protocol for https://www.threads.net/@tantek", huh
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gRegor Sounds like accounts need to opt-in "Threads users aged 18+ with public profiles can now choose to share their Threads posts to other ActivityPub-compliant servers." https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/21/networking-traffic/threads-has-entered-the-fediverse/
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gRegor Has anyone else on Threads opted in to that yet? Curious to try following
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[tantek] On it
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[tantek] I had to update the iOS app first I believe
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[tantek] Need to add some of this to /Threads docs "How To" https://www.threads.net/@0xjessel/post/C4ya8TwvRTM/
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[tantek] "go to Profile > Account settings > Fediverse sharing to opt-in:
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[tantek] in iOS Threads: go to profile (👤 icon lower right) > Account > Fediverse sharing > scroll down, tap ( Next ) > ( Turn on sharing )
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[tantek] "You're now sharing in the Fediverse"
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[tantek] curious if it has the same "cold start" problem as fediverse / Mastodon in general
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[tantek] I went to my Bridgy Fed /following page on my dashboard
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[tantek] entered [tantek]@threads.net into the input box and pressed return
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[tantek] ooh Bridgy Fed is doing an IndieAuth flow to make sure I'm http://tantek.com
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Loqi [preview] Tantek Çelik
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[tantek] and hey there it is: https://fed.brid.gy/web/tantek.com/following
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gRegor Hm, retried the follow with a new slug, no error in BF but doesn't seem to have worked
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[tantek] new slug? did you post a follow post? I used the Bridgy Fed dashboard UI
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gRegor Yeah, I use follow posts from my site then webmention
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[KevinMarks] I followed you from my indieweb.social account, but I see no posts
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[KevinMarks] xoxo.zone blocks threads
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gRegor Aha. Noticed on tantek's BF following page the trailing slash on "https://www.threads.net/@tantek/". I added the trailing slash in my follow post and it worked!
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gRegor Weird edge case
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gRegor lol "MastoPleroMissCalckey thing" in your Threads bio :D
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[snarfed] the big missing piece here is that Threads (still) doesn't serve AS2 via conneg on profile or post URLs like https://www.threads.net/[tantek]
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[snarfed] to get AP/AS2, you have to start with webfinger, and then follow the separate URL structures from there
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[snarfed] they know about this and I think are planning to add that conneg support, just haven't yet
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aaronpk i can't seem to even hit their webfinger endpoint, unless i'm misremembering how it works
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gRegor never thought I'd see you put "missing piece" and "conneg" in the same sentence :)
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aaronpk haha
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[tantek] lulz
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[tantek] Now that BF can follow your Threads account, it's possible to build an OwnYourThreads relay that follows your Threads account then posts to your site via Micropub
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gRegor Can you cross post IG to Threads? OwnYourGramViaThreads
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jacky you can for some posts
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[KevinMarks] https://indieweb.social/@kevinmarks/112135672428794052
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] no notifications or content (e.g. replies) of any kind from outside of Threads
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[KevinMarks] I thought it passed on liikes?
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] likes are external content, as they are in essence like posts
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[tantek] ok so Threads following has the same cold start problem
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[tantek] "*Older posts from other servers are not displayed.*"
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aaronpk what's the actual source of that problem?
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aaronpk i thought AP defined an outbox as an endpoint that should be able to fetch older posts
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[tantek] aaronpk, I have a feeling it is folks copying Mastodon AP-quirks bc if it's good enough for Masto...
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aaronpk am i remembering right tho?
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[tantek] aaronpk, I think so. however something "being" in an outbox (i.e. older posts) is insufficient
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[tantek] since AP is a push-based protocol, *something* has to trigger the push of posts from the outbox, and the only thing AFAIK is a new "activity" like "create", "update", "delete" from the publisher
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[tantek] nothing "fetches" from the outbox unprompted, that would be polling 🙂
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[tantek] [snarfed] can likely provide some additional details / corrections
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aaronpk i thought activitypub allowed/expected polling the outbox
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aaronpk yep: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#outbox
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aaronpk "If a user submits a request without Authorization the server should respond with all of the Public posts"
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aaronpk "The outbox MUST be an OrderedCollection."
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[schmarty] i think this is one of those "yes the spec has it, but who actually uses it?" questions. i believe most AP implementations don't actually _poll_ an outbox. for example, to backfill posts the first time an instance gets a request to follow a user on another instance.
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[tantek] yep, going to chalk this up to: "if Mastodon didn't implement it, we can skip it too (for now)"
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[snarfed] outbox is part of AP, and some fediverse servers do serve it, but it's not commonly used to fetch remote profiles' posts
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btrem Sorry to interrupt the AP talk. I finished h-feed. Needed a spreadsheet and lots of trial and error. As with h-card, there are very minor differences between my copy and the Indieweb one.
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btrem Link to the PR is in the #meta channel.
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aaronpk please do interrupt the AP talk
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[KevinMarks] well done. Those tinyicons are fiddly but kinda rewarding puzzles
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btrem At first, I missed the "do"; thought it said "do /not/"! :-o
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aaronpk hehe
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btrem [KevinMarks]: yeah, had to much around with the c command points after converting the numbers mathmatically.
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btrem ...mathematically.
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] "People would be able to reply and like those posts using their Mastodon clients, but those replies and likes would not be visible within the Threads application." via Tom Coates's post (link in #indieweb-stream)
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btrem Also fought with git for a bit. I somehow was on the wrong tip when I started my work, leading to what would have been a merge conflict. Had to go back to master the cherry pick my work.
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[tantek] checks #indieweb-meta
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btrem TIL if I double click a post, my chat client -- Thunderbird/Linux -- puts the author of the post in my chat window with a colon, so I can respond with that person mentioned. Neat!
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btrem Also can't figure out how to delete branches that are on origin, but no longer on upstream. All the `git fetch --prune`s in the world did not work. And as I type this, I realize why. --prune removes local refs to deleted branches. It does not remove branches on origin (my copy) that no longer exist on upstream (the one I forked).
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btrem So TIL that `git fetch --prune` does not.... :-D