#dev 2024-07-10

2024-07-10 UTC
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[0x3b0b] It feels weird to me that the conversation on the fedivers:creator MR dropped off with so little additional commentary after the remark about application/jrd+json versus application/activity+json, and I'm not sure why.
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[tantek] I'll reply that I've deployed a live example of link rel=author type=application/activity+json, and see if that helps
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[0x3b0b] Which reminds me. I think I wrote the modification to do the jrd version, but haven't deployed it yet.
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[tantek] [benatwork] do your posts still accept webmention comments? E.g. on https://werd.io/2024/substack-rival-ghost-federates-its-first-newsletter-techcrunch ?
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[benatwork] Something's currently broken with webmention. Thanks for the prod - I'll take another look at fixing
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[snarfed] I'm looking for an explainer on index-based vs inline markup, ie "characters 27-39 links to http://foo" vs "<a href="http://foo">...</a>"
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aaronpk What are you hoping to have explained?
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[snarfed] I know people here with standards body experience ([tantek]) prefer inline, and I believe them, after having implemented parsing and generating for both, but I don't have good crisp instincts or reasoning for why yet
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[snarfed] also I'm not sure of the standard terms? index-based? faceted? inline? something else?
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[snarfed] yeah I guess specifically an explainer on, if there's been evolution over time on which is preferred and why, ideally from people with experience, maybe standards body oriented or not
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[snarfed] hard to search for, esp when I maybe don't know the common terms for them
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[tantek] [snarfed] I've implemented both, and there are definitely interesting trade-offs. Short answer is that inline markup tends to be more robust & flexible over time which makes it more usable, forgiving, and thus user-friendly (author-friendly).
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[tantek] index or offset based annotation like that has some interesting use-cases like the TSS hackery I did with Rohit at the Twitter Annotations Hackfest which subsequently (AFAIK) scared them into not shipping tweet annotations for open developer use
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[tantek] fairly sure I shared that story with you but perhaps it's been a while
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[tantek] I don't think it's on the wiki
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[tantek] what is TSS
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Loqi TSS is Twitter Style Sheets or Text Style Sheets, a compressed form of CSS applicable to short bits of text, suitable for storing in very small fields like 512 bytes https://indieweb.org/TSS
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[snarfed] oh yeah. and lol that sounds like a downside more than an upside 😆
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[snarfed] do you all know of a longer writeup on this?
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[tantek] lol maybe it is 😂
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[snarfed] ok if not, just curious
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[snarfed] (er sorry, where "this" is comparing the two approaches)
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[tantek] links on that page should provide plenty of 🍿
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[tantek] AFAIK all "longer" writeups/analysis of those approaches are pre-web, back when SGML was one of many approaches to marking up / styling things. I think there were plenty of such analyses but in the 1980s and thus impossible to web search for (since Google killed Netnews search which would likely be a good source)
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[snarfed] oof yeah ok
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[snarfed] thanks!
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[tantek] I miss Deja News
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[tantek] that's one of the more egregious acts of memory-holing by Google 😕
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[tantek] [snarfed] one of the more interesting use-cases back from those days was tables, as an alternative to CSV/TSV, having a side-file indicate which character offset numbers on a line "meant" which columns
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[tantek] since keeping the monospaced tables looking visually correct reinforced preserving the column offsets, that particular use-case was more longterm reliable
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[tantek] and you could "load" the whole thing into a 2d array datastructure (or a 1d array of strings) and quickly do substring lookup for specific fields
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[tantek] worked well as an inspectable/editable read/write data format
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[tantek] much more readable than say, an HTML table, or mediawiki table, or any other "plain"text markup table
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[snarfed] interesting!
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jimwins Bluesky calls them "RichText facets" and Paul Frazee has a blog post explaining why they chose it: https://www.pfrazee.com/blog/why-facets
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[KevinMarks] https://mastodon.social/@Meyerweb/112763172185556955
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Loqi [preview] [Eric A. Meyer] I just saw someone characterize running a Mastodon instance as being “no harder than running your own mail server” and I thought “off, that’s a savage takedown” before grasping that they meant it as a positive.
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jimwins Yeah, it's actually pretty savage. Actually getting a mail server running might be easier, but you'll quickly hit the problem of the big mail providers not wanting to talk to your server.
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jimwins fediverse:creator could be seen a signal of that sort of problem being on the horizon for Mastodon, as well as seeing what Meta/Threads does in the name of the moderation problems.
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[KevinMarks] Google Wave used the offsets thing as a way to make the Operational Transforms more tractable , but that also made interop harder. As the bsky example shows, how you count offsets is hard with the variable size of what is considered a character by different programming languages, and if you get the offset wrong you can break encoding as well as layout
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[tantek] Heads-up to folks here who want to participate in W3C TPAC and could benefit from funding assistance (e.g. if you don't have a company paying for you to go), applications for the Inclusion Fund for TPAC 2024 are now open: https://gzobeteisdd.typeform.com/to/PS8Jz5Rj
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