#dev 2024-09-02
2024-09-02 UTC
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[tantek] yaeh sounds like a bunch of drama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nginx#2020s
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arekenaten Does anyone know if Web Components play nicely with micro-formats? I would assume so, but before I dive into moving away from a frontend framework to enter the indie-web I wanted to make sure 🙂
# arekenaten Admittedly, I don’t know much about what web components render down into, but I figured someone here may have experience enough to let me know if they’ve had any issues
# IWDiscord <arekenaten>
# arekenaten I’ve been lurking for a few days and had just noticed that many people are serving static content via nginx and the culture of the community seems to skew toward standard web tech instead of something like sveltekit / react / etc. I just wanted to make sure if I wasn’t happy just writing raw html without components I wouldn’t be breaking things.
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pcarrier So you'll want to make sure the markup provided by your server contains everything needed to extract the information without js, if you care about tooling other than browsers where JS is supported, enabled and loaded (https://indieweb.org/js;dr)
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# arekenaten This is helpful thanks 🙂 I _hope_ everything eventually renders down into static content and it’ll all be good
# arekenaten Yeah. I’m pretty new to self hosting stuff and want to make sure I won’t make things too complicated for myself at first. I think svelte can interoperate pretty well with web components but again, pretty new to this side
# pcarrier Sveltekit can do either and even both in one project. https://kit.svelte.dev/docs/adapter-static
# arekenaten Yeah I’ve been looking at that, but I figured it’d be closer to culture fit here for using native Web Components so assumed it would be better supported. I’m okay with being proven wrong though 🙂
# pcarrier [tantek]: I just made https://pcarrier.com friendly to non-JS browsers after a few weeks where it was broken for them :D
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# pcarrier I guess anything is possible with asciidoctor.js (eg through 11ty). https://docs.asciidoctor.org/asciidoctor.js/latest/extend/extensions/register/
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# [tantek] Literally picking fights with the first examples on https://docs.asciidoctor.org/asciidoc/latest/syntax-quick-reference/ 🙄
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# catgirlin.space what is there other than asciidoc and markdown? kinda maybe want to change from markdown on my website….
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capjamesg[d] pcarrier++
# capjamesg[d] I like your website layout!
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[jacky] if you're looking to extend it via Markdown itself, perhaps leaning on one that conforms to https://commonmark.org/ could help (found that to be helpful for getting footnotes, pullquotes, etc) all going (from obsidian to the browser)
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[KevinMarks] Have a look at babelmark for consistency issues between markdown implementations if you are moving markdown files between tools.
# [KevinMarks] You may need to set a flag in your markdown renderer to support inline HTML as some are designed for 3rd party rather than 1st party authoring by default. I had to do this for Hugo.
# [KevinMarks] It's usually a good idea to preserve the rendered html as well between versions - ie check in the rendered html into source control as well as markdown sources
# [KevinMarks] On the web components question, one approach that looks promising is what @adactio calls HTML Web Components, where the component looks at the HTML inside it (or rather the DOM at runtime) to augment the default semantic rendering with improved UI. That means that the fallback no js case is still legible in feed readers etc and the components look like extra containing divs
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# [morganm] On Sept 5th I am now giving a 20-30 minute talk on web components, I think Ive found some good icebreaker about the fact that the word component is heavily used and a bit meaningless up front at least
# [morganm] I might share a few snippets here for interest and feedback
# [morganm] The main topic example is the Apple Pay Button, which is a web component, and has a bunch of features/use case observations to it about web components
# [morganm] Trying to make it relevant and interesting for some wider folks
# [KevinMarks] These 2 posts are worth reading https://adactio.com/journal/20618 https://adactio.com/journal/21078
# [morganm] I am familiar with his great works and have read one of those posts, Ill read the other 🙂
# [KevinMarks] [qubyte] it's a bit like the decorator pattern in python
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Loqi web component is a reusable HTML element defined using the Web Components API, and created & used by IndieWeb community members on their own sites https://indieweb.org/web_component
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# [morganm] To try and broaden the appeal I go into a discussion about the Apple Pay Button web component. Which does a lot of heavy lifting in terms of guard rails around styling and also even including embedded license notices in JS and localization and some stuff around tokens for security I dont fully understand yet
# [morganm] but basically if Apple if using it to brand their payment button its important and “scales” or whatever
# [morganm] I dont know how many FTE units go into their web component but its a subject of a whole team I imagine
# [KevinMarks] I just boarded a plane so my wiki editing will be constrained for the next 10 hours or so
# capjamesg[d] [snarfed] I tried to open https://granary.io/url?input=html&output=rss&url=https://jamesg.blog/longform-feed/ but it took several seconds to load.
# capjamesg[d] pcarrier reported a timeout in Miniflux too.
# [tantek] web component << Recommended reading per
{{kevinmarks}}: https://adactio.com/journal/20618 https://adactio.com/journal/21078 (to do: needs article/citation templating)# Loqi ok, I added "Recommended reading per
{{kevinmarks}}: https://adactio.com/journal/20618 https://adactio.com/journal/21078 (to do: needs article/citation templating)" to the "See Also" section of /web_component https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=96739&oldid=96676 # [morganm] [tantek] Im trying to formulate a question. Basically, in a broad stroke, how do I explain that a bunch of web components on the page even with a lot of stuff hidden in their respective shadow doms, could have performance benefits over something like a framework which puts everything into a root element with javascript like react
# [morganm] I want to say that but I dont know if its accurate in my talk
# [morganm] but thats my current understanding of the benefits of in platform stuff thats registered as a custom element and reproduced, its cheaper than some component styles with react
# [morganm] Right on. Ill file that idea away for another day 🙂
# [morganm] Mainly in my talk per comments above I just discuss why the Apple Pay Button uses web component features, because they want to control the branding and behavior, and what that looks like going into the component more. I think there is a broad area to communicate how much more is possible with the platform since many last checked in on it
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# [tantek] catgirlinspace re: "what is there other than asciidoc and markdown" — many more, enjoy this rabbithole! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "redmine" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "redmine is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trac" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trac is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[qubyte] Reading the lightweight markup article, I had to chuckle at seeing “SGML” and “lightweight” together in a sentence. Reminds me of C being a high level language, but the other way around. Also I completely forgot that I wanted to look into djot, since it appears to be how I use markdown (the regular bits that is) anyway.