#dev 2024-10-08

2024-10-08 UTC
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[tantek] GWG, from the last time we discussed what to do with a cheap epaper / eink display at home, some ideas starting here: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2022-12-07#t1670454265793400
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Loqi [preview] [[tantek]] use-case: replace the paper calendar I have hanging on the wall with portrait mode 31" eInk display that auto-updates from my events aggregator of choice
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[tantek] does anyone have an eink / epaper display at home showing some aspect of their personal site? e.g. recent personal site notifications?
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GWG 31 inches seems expensive.
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GWG To save real estate, I might see what I can fit on this. And if I need more... another 7.5 inch
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[tantek] Perhaps I should just blog my eink display ideas to put them out there in a place more finadable (than our IRC logs)
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[tantek] I never see our IRC logs show up in any Google Search results
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[tantek] maybe that's better for #indieweb-meta
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GWG I would read that blog. I will likely blog my experience
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GWG I'm still early days
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[tantek] I mean mine would be fully aspirational. I have zero eink displays myself AFAIK
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GWG [tantek]: I'm simplifying this by trying to have my server push data to it.
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GWG So, it will only get some data and show it ..the logic will be elsewhere
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[tantek] Whoa! .io is going away?!?
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[tantek] OOPS
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[tantek] heads-up [benatwork] who has/uses http://werd.io
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[benatwork] Yeah, I guess I'm thinking about moving back to http://benwerd.com
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[tantek] https://every.to/p/the-disappearance-of-an-internet-domain
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[tantek] CW: js;dr, also ironically on a .to (Tonga) ccTLD 🙄
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[tantek] Jacky++ for the heads-up via #indieweb-stream and also being right about concerns about .io
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Loqi Jacky has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (34 in all channels)
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catgirlin.space wait they're actually killing .io?
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catgirlin.space [woozycat](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1183246214595092561.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=woozycat)
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catgirlin.space [edit] [woozycat](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1183246214595092561.webp?size=48&quality=lossless&name=woozycat)
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[tantek] yes read the blog post
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[Joe_Crawford] The NIC appears to run out of a tiny neighborhood office in London. Let Mauritius run it.
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[Joe_Crawford] The islands still exist. So, the domain still exist.
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catgirlin.space mhm, reading it rn
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[tantek] No the domain is being retired. No more new registrations and existing ones being retired (not renewed).
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[snarfed] hmm. that part of the post sounded like very confident speculation. yes, they cite IANA rules and precedent for it, so it may be likely, but I didn't see a link to an actual announcement from IANA
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[snarfed] so, maybe 90-905% sure, but not 100% just yet?
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[snarfed] from the last section: "The IANA may fudge its own rules and allow .io to continue to exist."
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capjamesg[d] Yeah.
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[schmarty] yeah there's no announcement from IANA about it, yet, as far as i've been able to find.
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capjamesg[d] I haven't heard an official announcement yet.
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[snarfed] oh boy I can buy http://granary.org for just under $5k! 😆 https://www.godaddy.com/forsale/granary.org
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capjamesg[d] I love that the name of the operator of .io is "Internet Computer Bureau" 😄
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capjamesg[d] [snarfed] 😭
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[schmarty] petition to name .lol the default .io migration TLD 😄
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[tantek] I think it's likely enough to start fueling the lifeboats as it were
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[tantek] [benatwork] [snarfed] [cleverdevil] [aaronpk] and anyone else with an active in-use .io domain, please collaborate and come up with guidance that we can publish on the wiki and provide folks a transition recommendation
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/ccTLD#io for reference
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gRegor Make an offer on granary.farm?
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[manton] I will be very, very surprised if they actually prevent existing .io domains from renewing. So many people use it.
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catgirlin.space 🔁
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[manton] Love granary.farm if you can get it. 🙂
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[snarfed] sigh it's taken
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[snarfed] http://granary.net is only $800, what a steal
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[manton] http://granary.cc might be nice too, e.g. “carbon copy” between different web formats. But that’s also another island in the Indian Ocean!
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[snarfed] hah funny
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[snarfed] can't escape geopolitics
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[snarfed] not a big deal, I don't plan to do anything until ICANN etc actually tell us what's going to happen here
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[manton] Makes sense.
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[manton] Looks like I have 3 .io domains, but they aren’t used much and I could transition away if needed.
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[snarfed] good, glad to hear it
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[snarfed] I also own http://freedom.io, which I've never done anything with but still love
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[snarfed] sad if this means the end of that one. 🤷
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[tantek] I'd say the bottom just fell out so try and sell what you can
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[tantek] for any .io domains anyone might be hanging onto
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[tantek] first step if you haven't already is to register and setup a non-io domain for your project (stage ASAP etc.) and when it looks like it's "working", 308 PERMANENT REDIRECT from your .io to your new domain per https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/308
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[tantek] ^ anyone disagree before I blog something about this?
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[tantek] this feels like a ⚠️ level broadcast event
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[snarfed] I disagree somewhat. technically sure that's all fine, but it feels a bit early to tell people to take big invasive steps like this
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[snarfed] worst case, I fully expect ICANN etc will give a generous grace period before actually shutting anything down, probably measured in years
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[snarfed] it'
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[snarfed] ...it's your site though, of course, you can obviously blog whatever you want 😁
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[tantek] [snarfed] do you think I am exaggerating the urgency?
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[snarfed] yes
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[tantek] so not even "yellow alert" level? (I mean this is why I didn't consider it a "red alert" 🚨 )
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[snarfed] it seems very possible that .io may eventually die. however, it seems very unlikely that that will happen suddenly, or imminently
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[tantek] I am disappointed that Wikipedia does not have a "yellow alert" article. I might be tempted to create one
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[tantek] ok that's more #indieweb-random...
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[tantek] [snarfed] ok, modified suggestion to folks then: Start making a transition plan for any .io domains you own/use to alternatives, rather than "abandon ship!"
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[snarfed] sure!
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[tantek] great!
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[tantek] thanks for the gut-check, appreciated.
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[snarfed] welcome!
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aaronpk There's too much money available to shut it down. I suspect someone will step in to recreate it as a gTLD
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Loqi aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 4 days, 23 hours ago: heads-up: SocialCG/IndieAuth coordination landed into the FedID WG charter: https://github.com/w3c/charter-drafts/pull/587
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Loqi aaronpk has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (125 in all channels)
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[snarfed] aaronpk++
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GuestZero (coming from the main channel, I hope this is the right place) what would you say is the simplest static site CMS out there – in terms of design, not necessarily setup?
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[mattl] PicoCMS
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[mattl] Every other static site CMS seems to require you to use CLI to install things.
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GuestZero thank you! though I wouldn't really mind to do so
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[tantek] you can't create two letter TLDs (no matter how much money you have) because they are all reserved for ccTLDs
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aaronpk well, not until IANA makes an exception for this case
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[tantek] you'd have to engineer a take-over of IANA, and force them to change that policy, and if you're able to do that, there's far more you can do
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[tantek] they have never made a ccTLD exception, extremely unlikely they'd start now
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aaronpk has this situation ever happened before?
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[tantek] yes
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[tantek] maybe not on this scale, but yeah, several other ccTLD have been decommissioned. USSR, Yugoslavia off the top of my head
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[mattl] .cs too
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[tantek] so it's wishful thinking to consider a new exception
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[snarfed] it sounds like .su was an exception. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.su
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[tantek] lol that last sentence in the link preview
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[tantek] "The .su ccTLD is known for usage by cybercriminals."
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[snarfed] sure. still though
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[tantek] also, I'm surprised as that was not the case last time I looked into .su.
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[tantek] time to check citations
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[mattl] Until the deletion of .yu in 2010, .cs was the most heavily used top-level domain ever to be deleted.
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aaronpk there's so much money in this one though. just reading up on IANA rules I can see a clear path to saving it if someone were motivated enough
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[mattl] I'd like to know how many .cs domain names were owned by .http://ac.uk domain name holders, especially computer science depts because of JANET NRS.
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[tantek] [snarfed] the citation doesn't check out
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[mattl] I don't think I've ever seen a .su domain name in use.
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[tantek] the site is down and the Internet Archive copy linked from Wikipedia only says "Domena jest utrzymywana na serwerach premium.pl."
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[tantek] yeah I'm calling BS on .su, will add some citation neededs
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[snarfed] https://ww.su/
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catgirlin.space maybe someone will buy an island and make it a country with the country code io to save the tld? lol
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[tantek] ok well that's at least an existence proof [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 50 karma in this channel over the last year (97 in all channels)
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[snarfed] https://www.nic.ru/
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[snarfed] oh sorry that's .ru, nm
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aaronpk ☝️ c​atgirlin.space
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[snarfed] but http://nic.su/ redirects there
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aaronpk some islands aren't _that_ expensive
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catgirlin.space why the point up emoji,,,, confused.....
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[snarfed] also there are a few exceptions to the rule that only country codes can be two-letter TLDs: .uk, .ac, .eu. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_code_top-level_domain#Latin_Character_ccTLDs
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aaronpk https://www.privateislandsonline.com/search?availability=sale $52 million
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[tantek] [snarfed] still geographic-based political entities?
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[snarfed] ...sure...?
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[snarfed] as was/is .io 😁
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catgirlin.space what if indieweb island
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[mattl] what is sealand?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "sealand" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "sealand is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[mattl] https://sealandgov.org/en-us
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[snarfed] https://www.computerworld.com/article/3552692/is-the-io-top-level-domain-headed-for-extinction.html has a comment from IANA. pretty non-committal, they say "there are multiple potential outcomes depending on the nature of the change...[one such change] may involve ensuring there is an operational nexus with Mauritius to meet certain policy requirements. Should .io no longer be retained as a coding for this territory, it could trigger a
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[snarfed] *five-year retirement process*" (emphasis mine)
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[snarfed] https://www.iana.org/help/cctld-retirement
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[tantek] Great retrieval [snarfed]!
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[tantek] [snarfed]++ and now feeling good about procrastinating (somewhat) posting about this
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Loqi [snarfed] has 51 karma in this channel over the last year (98 in all channels)
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[tantek] topic for forking to #indieweb-meta: this is a hot enough topic for us (with enough "key" IndieWeb and adjacent services) that I think we can make a separate page for .io accordingly
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[mattl] https://domainincite.com/30406-five-times-icann-deleted-a-cctld-and-what-it-means-for-io
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[Joe_Crawford] Learn some Flexbox property values as a game. https://codingfantasy.com/games/flexboxadventure/play
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[Joe_Crawford] Wow `.um` really feels like a lost opportunity.
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[Joe_Crawford] Thanks for sharing that post [mattl]++
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Loqi [mattl] has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (21 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford] I propose a new political entity. Top Level Domain-Sustaining Historico-legal Geographic Entity.
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[tantek] ^ needs a better acronym
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[tantek] Sustaining Patron Empowering Countrycode TLD Registration Entity
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[mattl] Haha
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[aciccarello] I didn't think about the .io change impacting other processes too:
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[aciccarello] > He added, “We cannot comment on what the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency may or may not do in response to this development. It is worth noting that the ISO 3166-1 standard is not just used for domain names, but many other applications. The need to modify or retain the IO encoding may be informed by needs associated with those other purposes, such as for Customs, passports, and banking applications.”
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[tantek] [mattl] the entity should of course itself be headquartered on an island
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[tantek] perhaps on Tuvalu
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[mattl] Sealand feels more appropriate somehow
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