#dev 2024-12-20
2024-12-20 UTC
Morganm, alephalpha0, gRegor, gRegorLove_, gRegorLove__, [mmurrah], sebbu2, geoffo, grufwub, doesnm, [jamietanna], [Murray], barnaby, GuestZero, ttybitnik, nemonical and Guest6 joined the channel
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capjamesg[d] Does anyone do an "acknowledgements" section on software they make?
# capjamesg[d] I know that a lot of iOS apps have something that lists the main dependencies they use.
# capjamesg[d] I was thinking about doing something like that for my web reader.
# capjamesg[d] (Granary, sqlite, bs4 being the key dependencies!)
# capjamesg[d] That makes sense.
# capjamesg[d] [mattl] What licenses typically have such clauses (so I know what to look out for in particular)?
# capjamesg[d] I haven't seen many hosted websites list their dependencies.
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[tantek]2 Short version, if the thing you made sends code to run on someone else's computer, then anything in that code you got from elsewhere may have attribution clauses that you are required to somehow make visible to that someone else.
# [tantek]2 [snarfed] obvious example I can think of is JS libs/frameworks which you serve and run on someone else's computer
# [tantek]2 capjamesg[d] IMO a better way to think about it (beyond license requirements, which you should follow), is like a colophon giving credit to the tools you have used
# [tantek]2 What is a colophon
# 
Loqi A colophon is a page or section (typically in a footer) of a site that describes how the site is made, with what tools, supporting what technologies, and often published on personal sites at a top level /colophon page https://indieweb.org/colophon
# [tantek]2 Yeah these GPL variants really made that more confusing for devs IMO. More confusing = reason enough to stay away
# [tantek]2 (As a dev thinking of reusing code)
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] My mindset is definitely to support people who made the useful software on which my project depends.
# [tantek]2 I figured and why I suggested colophon as an approach
# [tantek]2 I like the human appreciate and respect approach above and beyond any minimal legally required approach
# capjamesg[d] ^^
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# Kolev [mattl], AGPLv3 applies when a user interacts with your code over a server. GPLv3 doesn't do that.
# Kolev It's why Google will touch GPLv3 but not AGPLv3.
# Kolev I mean [tantek]2 sorry [mattl]
# Kolev As for public domain, it requires a patent grant alongside the public domain dedication, otherwise the software can be rendered nonfree due to patents.
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[mattl] I believe http://FSF.org has a good example of a colophon that’s been there for a long time. (Plone has one by default so it got purposed here)
# Kolev [mattl], https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#CC0
# Kolev However, jxself made a public domain dedication that is good. https://wpdd.info/
# Kolev [mattl], "I grabbed a copy of CC0 and worked with three different patent attorneys in three different countries to incorporate language to first waive any patents, and then license them if that is not possible for some reason." https://wpdd.info/about.html
# [tantek]2 ^
# Kolev Fedora doesn't touch CC0. Good luck.
# Kolev And a simple public domain notice may not be good enough in all jurisdictions.
# [tantek]2 Sounds like future hypotheticals, not worth spending time on
# Kolev So you're fine with having your public domain dedication on shaky ground, and opening up people to patent treachery. Got it.
# 
gRegor capjamesg, (not a lawyer) I put credits and license sections in the IBC readme: https://github.com/gRegorLove/indiebookclub
# Loqi [preview] [gRegorLove] indiebookclub: indiebookclub is a simple app for tracking books you are reading https://indiebookclub.biz
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# gRegor The credits do appear on https://indiebookclub.biz/about too. Not sure if I should also put licenses there.
# Kolev I was a heavy user of CC0 until Fedora and GNU both said no to it.
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# [tantek]2 nice human-friendly summary gRegor++
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Kupietz Hey, does anyone know if this indiewebchat is open spurce? Is it something I can host my own modified version of? Im finding it nearly imposdible to use on iOS… the text entry runs off the right edge of the screen, you cam even dcroll over to see what you’re tuping. I’m yhing it dhpuldn’t be hard to fix
# [tantek]2 re: putting licenses there, probably depends on the specific open source you used from aaronpk, I'd say check their licenses to see if they require more than just a link
# 
aaronpk is this not what you see? https://media.aaronpk.com/2024/12/20101807-5341.jpg
# aaronpk css fixes are welcome https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org
# Kupietz I see something very similar to that, but my phone screen is much smaller, the text entry box runs off the right edge of the screen and I can’t even scroll over to see the end of it. Thanks for pointing me to the repo, I’ll have a look at it over the weekend and see if I can come up with a fix.
# [tantek]2 yes the phrase "open source" was missing from /discuss. Now added so it's hopefully a bit more findable: https://indieweb.org/discuss#Suggestions
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# carrvo[d] I tend to look at ChooseALicense.com for quick summaries. Looks like https://choosealicense.com/licenses/cc0-1.0/ retains some restrictions, but you could also look at https://choosealicense.com/licenses/unlicense/
# carrvo[d] [edit] I tend to look at ChooseALicense.com for quick summaries. Looks like https://choosealicense.com/licenses/cc0-1.0/ retains some restrictions, but you could also look at https://choosealicense.com/licenses/unlicense/
# carrvo[d] "[CC0] is very similar to the unlicense" huh, never noticed that before.
# [mmurrah] Rave; I have a talk to a group called Bellingham Codes about web components a few months ago now, I gave credit to several people in the preface of the talk as inspiring me. At least 3 of them I have been in contact with since the talk and they are excited and willing to review the slide deck for a proper talk to Linuxfest Northwest talk in April 2025. I feel like I'm learning so much stuff and have mentors
# [mmurrah] Gave a talk*
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# capjamesg[d] [snarfed] How do you keep track of logs for things like Bridgy?
# capjamesg[d] My web reader is presumably polling hundreds of feeds now. All my logs are kept with the Python `logging` library and saved in a single file.
# capjamesg[d] I'm not really sure what the best practices are.
# capjamesg[d] *in Python