#dev 2025-01-17
2025-01-17 UTC
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btrem And /that/'s got me thinking that an appendix section might be a good thing to have in my template, like the acknowledgements, there when I need it. And that the appendix and ack are both postfact, or back matter. But neither of those terms are terribly good in my template as a parent block. Maybe I'll go with backmatter for now, and change it if I think of something better.
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[jeremycherfas] I like Preamble and Appendix
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[KevinMarks] Instead of postface how about sufface? (like prefix and suffix)
# [KevinMarks] Epilogue is another classic term
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# Lars-Christian @[Jo] yes I use httpd on OpenBSD
# Lars-Christian Here's a bit of context if you want to investigate further https://www.openbsdhandbook.com/services/webserver/basic_webserver/
# Lars-Christian It's very simple, very barebones. Even I could set it up ^_^
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# btrem UMass had two servers, one on a unix machine, the other on a vax machine. I still remember the addresses: www-vax.umass.edu and www-unix.umass.edu. The one he loaned me was on the vax machine. Weird that I remember that, yet I can't remember really important stuff like paying my bills on time. :-/
# [Joe_Crawford] Earthlink was an ISP that provided hosting as part of getting an account. `http://home.earthlink.net/~artlung/` - tilde account. AOL users could sign up and got accounts too. I don't think there was a tilde though. `http://members.aol.com/artlung/` I believe.
# [Joe_Crawford] internet archive knows about my earthlink url! but in 1998 I was already doing a redirect - probably with htaccess.
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[tantek] This was a good critical read about challenges with Mastodon instance harassment and needs for better blocking / reporting which IMO could apply to Webmention as well https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2024/07/30/Invisible-Attackers
# carrvo[d] re: webservers when I was researching what to use Apache and Nginx seem to be the two leading choices. I mostly went with Apache because of SVN integration...but Nginx seemed to be more clear that it could handle non-HTTP protocols.
# carrvo[d] MySQL runs its own TCP protocol and I was hoping to expose it through a central point that could apply similar access controls...
# carrvo[d] Basically a gateway for localhost applications that may not have enough security and may not be library-orientated.
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# carrvo[d] tantek++ very interesting article. I would be wary of counter-discrimination making its way into the article though. I would probably be considered overprivileged and have often been treated as "surely you can't be discriminated against" as a result (ironically constituting discrimination).
# carrvo[d] [tantek]++
# carrvo[d] That is why it is nice talking to you! Most of the time I caution about it people dismiss it as not true! And you are right, it does dispute the seriousness of direct discrimination.
# carrvo[d] *does not dispute. DOES NOT. Yikes, missing that word really changes the meaning.
# [Joe_Crawford] The technical, #_dev ish_ point about federated social media having ambiguity about what "everyone" can see is well taken. If I am on an instance, and you are on a different one, the result of "just look at the replies" has good odds we will NOT see the same thing. This is not an intuitive result.
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# carrvo[d] With regards to webmentions, there is a critical moment where a decision is made whether to include the receiving content or not. Would we be addressing this by having a filter step that can block known malicious sites and known malicious words (similar to Loqi telling us to move the conversation) or other filters? Where else in webmentions can we inject protections?
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Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention that can also be used to customize how your site accepts responses from different audiences https://indieweb.org/Vouch
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capjamesg[d] opt-in++
# carrvo[d] I would agree about the design. But I would caution against "care" because I don't think it has that level of intention. Not from what I have seen. It is hard to make the mental connection between what you are doing and all the consequences it has (causing logical bugs, causing harder-to-detect discrimination).
# carrvo[d] tantek, something like Vouch is not obvious for someone beginning with webmentions (first I have come across it). And that might be part of the problem. I could have set up a service based on webmentions, gotten it working, and then focus on improvements; leaving me ignorant until things get bad enough that it overcomes natural invisibility. Exactly the "not caring", even though I do.
# carrvo[d] It might be more empathetic to say "... folks designing ... [focus] more about rapidly scaling such systems, [and are ignorant] about not harming people, not creating harmful experiences for people"
# carrvo[d] And you are definitely right about needing something better than blocking and reporting because historically these have been used for discrimination acts too.
# carrvo[d] I am glad you like my rephrasing! It takes a lot of dedication to become cautious about strong words like "caring".
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[schmarty] sneezes 😂
# Lars-Christian I finally moved my last site off Wordpress and Cloudways and onto my OpenBSD VM.
# Lars-Christian Saves me $11 per month. Score!
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# jak2k Hi, the IndieAuth specs mentioned a `<link rel"indieauth-metadata" href="...">`. Is there an example for it in the wild? (I'm creating a rust library for logging in using IndieAuth.)
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aaronpk 👋 my site has it, but that's not going to be much help to you since only I can actually log in to my site https://aaronparecki.com
# carrvo[d] jak2k I recently implemented this and you can see both sides here: https://github.com/carrvo/mindie
# carrvo[d] [edit] jak2k I recently implemented this and you can see both sides here: https://github.com/carrvo/mindie
# carrvo[d] Look to the Profile to see what the `<link ...` looks like and to the IdP for what the document looks like on the other side of the link.
# jasonshellen Hope this is a good place to ask about IndieAuth and MicroPub. I implemented IndieAuth (I know the name is going to be deprecated) because I wanted to try the Sparkles MicroPub client. I was using it just fine up until a few weeks ago then IndieAuth started asking for a rel=me link, which seems strange because I was using a signed PGP key prior. My few questions are:
# jasonshellen 1. Which Indie Auth provider is recommended now?
# jasonshellen 2. Is PGP still supported?
# IWDiscord <jasonshellen>
# jasonshellen 3. If you were implementing MicroPub today what tips do you have?
# jasonshellen I'm able to login with an email rel=me but... wasn't what i was hoping for.
# carrvo[d] Technically IndieAuth and RelMeAuth are separate protocols that both use your website. My best guess is that the client changed their implementation (based on it working before) but that would be strange.
# carrvo[d] What is RelMeAuth?
# Loqi RelMeAuth is an authentication method that uses personal URL for identity that rel-me link to established OAuth provider(s) to perform the actual authentication https://indieweb.org/RelMeAuth
# carrvo[d] What is IndieAuth?
# Loqi IndieAuth is a federated login protocol for Web sign-in, enabling users to use their own domain to sign in to other sites and services https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth
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# [tantek] jasonshellen, by "implemented IndieAuth" did you mean specifically using the http://IndieAuth.com website?
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gRegor jak2k, here's my indieauth metadata endpoint: https://gregorlove.com/indieauth-metadata-endpoint/
# Loqi indielogin.com is a service that developers can use to log users in to a website https://indieweb.org/IndieLogin
# jasonshellen yes, indieauth.com.
# [tantek] for (2), it looks like the PGP support is (temporarily?) disabled: https://indielogin.com/setup
# jasonshellen So my main question is, can I drop the rel=me and just use the pgpkey?
# jasonshellen Wonderful, thank you.
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# carrvo[d] I'm in for a rough few days: I am redeploying my self-hosted server and I have gotten "kernel panic" three times...
# jak2k Does IndieAuth.com support returning profile information? And what is the token endpoint used for, when I can verify the code using the auth endpoint?
# carrvo[d] The auth endpoint is likely only verifying an access code for authentication (no authorization). The token endpoint can return an access token that may either have claims embedded or can be traded for claims; that are then used for authorization. Also, the browser retrieves the access code whereas the client retrieves the access token (and relays it to the browser).
# carrvo[d] Maybe I should clarify that on MIndie...feel free to add an issue if I forget.
# carrvo[d] Really? That was not what I traced...
# carrvo[d] I found that the browser was redirected to the IdP who returned the access code during its redirect back to the client. Then the client swapped the access code (given by the browser during redirect) for the access token. At least with SelfAuth and MinToken.
# carrvo[d] I will need to update my self-documentation. The field was probably "access code" in the requests I looked at but I am happy for a better term!
# carrvo[d] The "client" is a combo of PHP pages and mod_oauth2 (the latter serving as both a client and a resource server for itself).
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