#dev 2025-04-17

2025-04-17 UTC
rrix and lanodan joined the channel
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osteophage "Since announcing that my solar bots had been threatened by the mas.to adminstrator, there were several private conversations about me, and I know this because they accidentally mentioned me in those conversations. And then quickly deleted the messages to re-hide them from me. This happened a half-dozen times."
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osteophage [KevinMarks]: Reading the Mastodon Exit Interview post, and man....
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IWDiscord <o​steophage>
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IWDiscord <o​steophage>
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osteophage I'd heard the possibility of that mistake floated as a possibility before, but this is wild.
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aaronpk That's so bad lol
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aaronpk I should scan my activity pub inbox to see if there are any DMs accidentally mentioning me 😅
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Loqi totally
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[tantek] Now that's what I call snitchtagging 😂
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aaronpk oof
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aaronpk What is snitch tagging
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Loqi snitch tagging is a special case of explicitly person-mentioning someone in a reply to or quotation of a post which mentions (usually critically) that same someone more obliquely (like plain text or a nickname) as a way of notifying that person of the critique, either as a heads-up, or perhaps in agreement with the critique https://indieweb.org/snitch_tagging
pfych, nemonical, claudinec, duanin2, marc_in_space, RapidRotator, GuestZero_, GuestZero and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
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[jeremycherfas] I read that Mastodon exit post until I really coyuldn’t process it any more and partly in response returned to bluesky, but while I still don’t fully get Mastodon I REALLY don’t get Bluesky. I know I need to make more use of lists on both but I find it hard to get started.
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[tantek] jeremycherfas you've made it father than me. I can't even find the motivation to setup yet another reader that depends on creating yet another account
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[tantek] AFAIK you can't use the bsky "app" without creating a bsky specific account so meh
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[tantek] Not interested until they support Web sign-in 🤷‍♂️
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[tantek] farther* than me
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Lars-Christian Anyone know of any good examples from the indieweb using charts?
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jeremycherfas Not sure what you mean Lars-Christian Presenting charts based on self-hosted packages, or something else?
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Lars-Christian Just presenting data in charts using HTML and CSS!
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Lars-Christian I know I've seen some cool examples around, but can't remember where
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jeremycherfas I make SVGs of charts I generate, but that's something else.
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[tantek] I feel I have seen some clever HTML+CSS experiments to display charts. maybe with tables?
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[tantek] Lars-Christian, do you consider the /cities page graphic at the top a "chart"?
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Lars-Christian Absolutely! Anything that visualises data is what I'm looking for ^_^
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[tantek] what is a chart
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "chart" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "chart is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] huh, maybe we should start collecting examples
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[tantek] what is a graph
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Loqi posting graph is a visualization of post publishing frequency which can be presented in various ways like a calendar heatmap or a sparkline, and also called contributions or a contribution graph by GitHub https://indieweb.org/graph
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[tantek] ^ a few examples there
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[tantek] also on https://indieweb.org/calendar_heatmap
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GWG [tantek]: angelo was talking last night about the W3C and spec maintenance. As a long standing contributor, what falls under the scope of maintenance and what doesn't? I'm confused on the point
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[tantek] GWG, there are levels
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[tantek] here is the link to the 5 kinds of changes that W3C considers distinct in specs: https://www.w3.org/policies/process/#correction-classes
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GWG I was trying to figure out if something I wanted to cover in the micropub spec constitutes a new feature...by that definition it might
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GWG Namely that the Micropub spec could absorb our unofficial methodology on extensions to become a more official one.
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[tantek] another way is to incubate the extensions and propose incorporating into revisions of the spec
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GWG [tantek]: There are a few that I think should, and many that should stay separate. I would love to reopen that discussion.
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[KevinMarks] For graphs see also sparkline
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[KevinMarks] what is sparkline?
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Loqi A sparkline is a small, simple, data-dense graphic with typographic resolution that is shown inline and in-context with relevant text https://indieweb.org/sparkline
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Lars-Christian Thanks @[tantek] and @[KevinMarks] will check out those!
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[KevinMarks] If you want a very flexible charting library I recommend Observable Plot - it's open source and runs either in node or client side
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Lars-Christian I'm gonna try to do it with html and css only, but thanks for the suggestions. That looks awesome
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[KevinMarks] SVG is really useful too - I've done charting with nunjucks templates creating svg from data
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I still prefer simpler approaches. Declarative approaches. I believe there is room for developing more simpler declarative approaches for many uses-cases currently handled by JS libraries.
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[KevinMarks] The Plot syntax is fairly declarative
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[KevinMarks] You call plot with some data and some options https://observablehq.com/plot/features/plots
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I think in the web context, that's a bit of a mis-use of "declarative". Fragile JSON structures, while technically "declarative" are not "web declarative" in that modern expectations for declarative syntax, semantics, features on the web include forgiveness, recovery, and forward/backward compatibility with extensibility.
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[tantek] I.e. not XML fragility, despite XML being technically "declarative"
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[KevinMarks] so SVG isn't declarative enough either?
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[Sophia_wood] ↩️ I found this: https://chartscss.org/examples/chart-builder/
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[Sophia_wood] ↩️ I am really tempted to try to make something
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Lars-Christian That's nice @[Sophia_wood] very easy to tweak to your liking
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] SVG's fragility was "fixed" with the forgiving HTML parser. Other than that SVG is just poor usability declarative
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btrem A somewhat belated thanks for HWC/Pacific last night.
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Loqi benji has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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btrem And special thanks for ideas on setting up a micropub server to benji++
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btrem and also [aciccarello]++
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Loqi [aciccarello] has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (28 in all channels)
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Loqi benji has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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[aciccarello] benji++ had some great micropub code walkthroughs
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btrem (I was going to post this in main channel, but I don't know if Loqi permits "micropub server" in #indieweb!) ;-)
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btrem She can be pretty strict.
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gRegor once or twice maybe, but three times is right out :)
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btrem :-D
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btrem And you have to say that in a Monty Python tone. (Think argument clinic sketch.)
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gRegor haha
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btrem Wait, is that the right sketch? Now I'm doubting myself. In one sketch, one of them (Graham?) screams that something or other is "RIGHT OUT!!"
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[KevinMarks] It also sounds a bit like the Holy Hand Grenade instructions
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Lars-Christian Okay I think I'm happy with my workout log now: https://lars-christian.com/logs/workouts/
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Lars-Christian Used some of the examples you shared for charts / graphs as inspiration, so thanks for that!
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btrem [KevinMarks]: Oops. Yeah, not the argument clinic. It was indeed the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch from _The Holy Grail_. Well done.
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[tantek] Lars-Christian++ nicely done! subtle graphs like that are a great way to start and then build from there!
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Loqi Lars-Christian has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)