#dev 2025-06-19
2025-06-19 UTC
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Loqi 🎨 Front End Study Hall (sometimes abbreviated as FrESH) is an HTML and CSS focused IndieWeb popup meeting focused on markup, styling, design, layout, and accessibility in a loose format where participants come to learn and teach https://indieweb.org/FrESH
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# Loqi 🏠 Your homepage represents you on the web, typically at the top of your domain, with your name and an iconic representation, often marked up with h-card, and fairly commonly one or more streams of recent, topical, or most relevant posts marked up with h-entry https://indieweb.org/profile
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[artlung] https://youtu.be/GXQqWpsEgpA?si=AiVd6B9f6y2r5oIh 14 minutes in.
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[social] With WAP in the late ’90s we found simple HTML pages with a WAP declaration in the <head> could render well in WAP only browsers and regular web browsers. Our project was updating a CMS I was building and our notes were in web form, the Executive Director of a large government agency we worked for would read our notes on his phone in the WAP viewer, but his Blackberry would read notes and read the content going in the templates on the dev
# [social] server instance on his trips home to the Mid West for weekends.
# [social] I don’t know if I have an example of the head declaration, but I have a rather robust archive of work from that time.
# [social] Last night’s rabbit hole was trying to get a table width to obey table width
# Kolev I'm trying to maintain a site in manually crafted HTML. Tips? Current site: https://calebh.top/
# Kolev https://calebh.top/2025/06/18/refresh/ are my thoughts.
# Kolev I like capjamesg archive URI scheme, but maintaining a daily archive is too much work. I think maintaining a monthly archive only and dropping the day in the URI makes more sense.
# Kolev so /2025/06/the-quick-brown-fox/
# osteophage Manual HTML is also what I do (it's the only thing I know how to do). What kind of tips are you looking for?
# osteophage Personally I don't put every blogpost on my personal site, so I don't organize posts or URLs by date. I just have a general folder for "essays" and such.
# Kolev I'm worried about collisions without dating things.
# Kolev I post daily.
# [social] I started a long time ago with manually created pages. Then after a while moved to a service for a blog of notes, but moved that to my own crafted CMS, which I still run and maintain (the modernization of the backend is my current personal project focus).
# [social] Kolev, I’m getting a certificate out of date, as expired on June 11th. You may want to look at Let’s Encrypt, if possible, to take the upkeep out of certificate management. I don’t think there is a charge for personal sites. https://letsencrypt.org
# [social] what is Let’s Encrypt
# Loqi Let’s Encrypt is a Certificate Authority intended to be free, automated, and open https://indieweb.org/Let%E2%80%99s_Encrypt
# Kolev [social], I used LE and configured it to auto-renew with certbot but I guess it expired still !
# [social] Oh, that is no fun.
# [social] When I initially setup LE on my http://vanderwal.net site it would expire. It took a few attempts to sort out the auto-renewal. I think I did this in 2017 or so, but not sure I captured how I did it. When I moved hosts around 2020, they offer managing LE as part of their service, which is really helpful.
# [social] The upside of having someone handle it is not having to deal with it, the downside is not easily being able to help others.
# [social] Table layout fixed with `table-layout: fixed;` , `word-wrap: break-word;` , and then using the `th:nth-child(1)
{ width: 60px; }` to set the width for each column. I had forgotten about the `nth-child(#) { }` in CSS to set fixed column widths.# [social] Now I have a table output that is workable for desktop that lists all the comments left on my site, when I had comments turned on. It is in the system management section, to not fully visable.
# [social] I used to be able to bend tables to my will as a regular part of my work many dog years ago. All of my old methods are now deprecated. Features 🙄
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# [social] Yep, it is tabular data of the blog post the comment was added to, date, the comment itself, the email address for the commenter, and their username.
# [social] I also went back and applied nth-child(even) for rows (tr), which made it much easier to read. I stopped dealing with tabular layout on a regular bases about the time CSS3 with selectors came in.
# Kolev Looks like https://calebh.top/ doesn't even load.
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# [social] It will load if you approve the expired certificate.
# [social] First update of site to PHP 8.3, in the system management section. Test blog post was successful. 🎉 🎉
# [social] Now to finish the public facing portion.
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# perryflynn [social]++
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# btrem My urls are yyyy/mm-slug. For example: https://btrem.com/2025/06-eleventy-footnotes
# [social] I’m definitely light more as reading text is easier. There is a lot of research around dark and light mode for reading spead and comprehension and light mode performed much better For coding with color highlighting attributes dark mode and solar light mode are very close and comes down to preference, but both were better than just on a white background but not a lot.
# [social] Coding at night I may flip to dark mode from solar
# btrem re: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2025-06-18/1750216886251400 (my inability to see response headers due to what I thought was redirects)
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[tantek] [timothy_chambe]++ for a very thoughtful critique post (many if not all aspects could apply to various IndieWeb user scenarios too!) https://www.timothychambers.net/2025/06/18/113327.html
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# Kolev btrem, thanks.
# Kolev Is there anybody who can help me with my expired cert?
# [social] [mattl] I have been using VS Code (but I want to take a digital flame thrower to it these days). For PHP I’ve normally been using Panic Software’s Nova (after a long stretch with their Coda), but right now I’m using PHPStory from JetBrains to try it out on [artlung] and [marksuth] recommendations.
# Kolev How am I going to add h-feed to my site? I already have indexes at 2025 and 2025/06.
# Kolev How do you even subscribe to h-feed?
# Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft specification with a top level feed object to contain root class(h-*) objects, usually h-entry posts and optionally a common author, name, and representative photo https://indieweb.org/h-feed
# Kolev ?
# Loqi A social reader is a modern interactive reader that allows you to directly respond to posts (with a like, comment, etc) right there inline with posts as you read them (as people do in social media), in contrast to legacy feed readers which were one-way read-only experiences and provided no mechanisms to interact with or respond to posts https://indieweb.org/social_reader
# Kolev Oh. Sounds too complicated for a hand-crafted HTML site.
# Kolev gRegor, well, I don't really have a stream of posts. I just have index pages at /2025/ and /2025/06/.
# 
gRegor Ah, yeah, a feed that someone subscribes to would usually be at a more "stable" URL. Like I have one at https://gregorlove.com/stream/. Mine isn't hand-written HTML though, so it's a bit easier to loop through and have it add the classes
# gRegor Here's Monocle's preview of subscribing to my h-feed: https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2Fstream%2F
# Kolev What IndieWeb features can/should I do with hand-crafted HTML?
# Kolev If I used Gemini protocol, I wouldn't have to deal with this complexity.
# Loqi Itches, in the context of the indieweb, are individuals's personal sources of annoyances using the web or in particular their own website, that they use to itemize and prioritize what to create, design, build, and improve on their own website, often by first listing such "itches" on a section in their User: page or on their own website https://indieweb.org/itches
# Kolev gRegor, well, first thing: My SSL cert expired. Second, I have to figure out how to index my posts without having too many duplicates. I like having an index at /2025/ and /2025/06/ and /2025/06/19/ but it's too labor-intenseive.
# Kolev I want it to be manual HTML to keep it simple.
# Kolev gRegor, my server is a computer in my house.
# Kolev LE.
# Loqi Let’s Encrypt is a Certificate Authority intended to be free, automated, and open https://indieweb.org/Lets_Encrypt
# Kolev I know...
# Kolev I'm on Ubuntu 22.04.
# Kolev Certbot service failed. Renewal guide on that pages doesn't help: My cert already expired.
# perryflynn The steps for renewal should work anyway.