#dev 2025-07-24

2025-07-24 UTC
grufwub, JadedBlueEyes8, bterry1, gRegor and bugliker022 joined the channel
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[mattl] what is apache
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/apache
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finolex hey folks! i'm new to indieweb, i'm working basic.tech (backends for devs where users own their data)
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finolex would love to get feedback on it!
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[fluffy] @fausphorus By the way, there’s a bunch of comic website builders out there although I haven’t worked with any of them. https://www.comiklex.com/ looks pretty interesting.
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[fluffy] Back in the day there was Grawlix but unfortunately it’s been abandoned for quite some time.
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[artlung] Oh whoa I've not seen this ~ Comiklex looks interesting. Year before last I attended a panel on websites for comics creators and much of it was disused unmaintained libs, wp themes, and wp plugins.
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[artlung] As for me I'm attending SDCC with a accessibility bent but with an eye on other indieweb topics (posse/pesos/sharing/etc)
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[artlung] bookmarking comiclex
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epoch finolex: have you seen this page yet https://indieweb.org/large_language_model ?
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[mattl] [artlung] Go say hi to Effin Birds if he’s there selling stuff again this year.. he always uses alt text on his stuff. I hung out with him for a bit the last couple times I was there.
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[artlung] Effin' is indeed there. https://sdccblog.com/2025/07/exclusive-effin-birds-sdcc-2025-exclusives-plans/
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[mattl] haha i’m glad the coffee thing is mentioned. 2023 I was going back and forth to the professional suite grabbing him cups for a little bit…
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doesnm <@f​ausphorus> Basically any website that relies on credit cards for financing (like say, tumblr), may end up being pressured by credit card companies to change their policy and ban/remove any content that those companies deem inappropriate <- like Steam
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doesnm i see someone posted video about steam being pressured
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[mattl] Yeah, Steam finally caved on that recently.
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epoch and the alternative to credit cards is... cryptocurrency? and then you've got a different group of people giving you crap
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doesnm epoch: fine 1282$ for paying in crypto after 2026
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doesnm + crypto used in payment
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epoch not sure which meaning of "fine" you're using
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epoch is there some law going into effect that will fine peopl $1200 for making cryptocurrency payments?
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doesnm penalty charge
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doesnm epoch: yes
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epoch I wonder who wrote that law. >.<
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doesnm inscreased at 7x for companies
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epoch have a link to what you're talking about so I can read it?
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epoch ah. in russia?
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epoch (that's what I'm finding at the top of search results atm)
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[mattl] cryptocurrency is something pushed by scammers and is the same grift as NFTs, Web3, blockchain and is pushed by the same people who are trying to slap “AI” onto everything.
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epoch and credit cards are something pushed by scammers and is the same grift as the rest of centralized banking, what, whatever
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doesnm epoch: https://iz.ru/en/node/1922846
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epoch just because scammers are using cryptocoins doesn't mean they don't have some value to people that don't want to be pressured by the credit card companies
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[mattl] credit card companies aren’t good, for sure… but you don’t need a credit card to buy things. Use cash.
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epoch if I could pay cash for steam games I would
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[mattl] you can.
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epoch steam cards?
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doesnm via terminals maybe
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[mattl] yep.
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[mattl] just walk into anywhere that sells Steam Gift cards and pay cash.
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epoch ok. that works for steam.
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epoch now I want to give money to random people on the internet. so there should be like, ko-fi cards I can get with cash.
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[mattl] less convenient for sure, but lots of things are less convenient and sometimes advocating for better things means that’s how it is.
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[mattl] there are pre-paid debit cards… you can buy those and either use them on ko-fi or just send the number directly to the person.
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epoch I forgot what my point was I think
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[mattl] some of these cards have ID requirements, they’re not an idea solution but the point is you can buy digital goods with cash.
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[mattl] *ideal
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[mattl] some places will also let you exchange gift cards for cash. for example, California will let you exchange a card with less than $10 on it for cash.
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epoch do the prepaid debit cards work through the same system that credit cards work though?
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epoch like, would a company be able to accept the prepaid debit cards if the credit card companies were witholding whatever services they provide?
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[mattl] yes but a retailer knows they’re prepaid so they might reject them.
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[mattl] no, they’re still issued by visa and mastercard, etc
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[mattl] CashApp lets you send money to people all over the place and you can add money to your CashApp account in cash at a huge number of places, for example: 7-Eleven
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doesnm epoch: real mail can transfer cash
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[mattl] Yep, or you can get a money order and mail that.
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[mattl] what is cash
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Loqi 💳 payment in the context of the indieweb refers to a feature on an indie web site that provides a way for the visitor to that website to pay (credit card, currency, gift card, etc.) the person represented by that indie web site https://indieweb.org/cash
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doesnm how named mails which need to be payed after you receive it?
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[mattl] Not what you mean, sorry?
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epoch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_on_delivery this?
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doesnm yeah
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[mattl] okay, almost 3am here i’m going to try and sleep
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epoch gn
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doesnm what time is for mattl
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Loqi In mattl's timezone, America/New_York, it is currently 2:55am on July 24
NaomiAmethyst8, barnaby, vidak, ttybitnik and [social] joined the channel
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[social] [morganm]++ Thank you for sharing the Utopia (fluid responsive design tool) from Clearleft last evening in the IndieWeb Website Club call - [Fluid Responsive Design | Utopia](https://utopia.fyi/)
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[social] I’ve passed it on to a couple people who have been struggling with understanding it and it helped quickly.
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Loqi [morganm] has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (25 in all channels)
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fausphorus >Kicks down door
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fausphorus What's up guys hey remember when I mentioned how Mastercard loves taking down websites that hosts Queer or Adult content? (And how anything remotely LGBTQ is allocated as too adult?)
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fausphorus Itch.io has been pressured to shadowban/remove access to any submissions with the adult tag, removing yet another place for creators to host their own works.
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IWDiscord <f​ausphorus>
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IWDiscord <f​ausphorus>
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IWDiscord <f​ausphorus>
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fausphorus I yell with exhaustion
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[schmarty] it is real exhausting 🫠
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fausphorus Trulyyyyy
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fausphorus Be gay become crime apparently
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[schmarty] since this is dev i will allow myself to indulge in some dev-think. i wonder how this might look different if, instead of marketplace silos like steam and itch, there were equivalently-easy indie toolkits for selling content on your own site. censorious orgs and card processors would still be able to interfere, but would have to do it to thousands of small sites rather than massive central pressure points.
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fausphorus That's one of my motivations for having my own website; I'd like to be able to learn enough over time to be able to host my own small shopfront in some manner. I know anything to do with payment processors is an absolute pain, but surely there must be some way
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fausphorus I mean, hells, I'll accept mail in checks at this point
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[schmarty] (but i recognize these are actually political and power-based problems, not technical ones.)
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fausphorus Also just had a moment wondering who still uses checks nowadays, I can't remember the last time I wrote one
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aaronpk aren't you describing shopify?
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aaronpk it's relatively easy to point a subdomain to a shopify store
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[schmarty] i think shopify is probably a big enough target that it's equivalent to a steam or an itch, tbh.
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aaronpk fair
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[fluffy] The itch and steam situation is super frustrating. At least with itch they're just delisting it and creators can still use their own website to point at their itch products. But like, most of the work I get these days is composing music for games that usually have NSFW aspects to them, and this makes things, y'know, difficult.
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[fluffy] Even when there isn't anything specifically NSFW, this puritanical crowd tends to treat anything trans- or LGBT-related as inherently pornographic, and that covers everything else I work on.
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doesnm [fluffy]: are you like making music?
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[fluffy] yeah
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[fluffy] that's the main thing I do these days, with what little energy I have to work on things with my disability issues
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fausphorus It really is frustrating, and at some point I find myself wondering if I'm going to have to get real vocal and activist-y about it to the point of veering some of my university studies into relevant fields. It's such a pain though, "we could be spending time on more concrete issues like the actual physical environment, but instead we're arguing about the abstract limits of whether or not an actual adult can choose what they co
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gRegor Super frustrating. It looks like we don't have an /itch.io page. Worth setting up with criticism section?
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gRegor Think it's relevant since community members are/were using it
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rubenwardy doesn't seem on topic
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rubenwardy also sounds like their hands were tied with this
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[mattl] Yeah there’s also a number of things on itch useful for the IndieWeb, for example lots of people selling art and design assets as well as development tools
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gRegor We document a variety of platforms that people use POSSE, PESOS, or otherwise
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[mattl] I recently had someone reach out to me about a piece of software they had made and found a post of mine they read and wanted me to try it out. Turns out I already owned it on itch but had no idea because there are these mega bundles that are difficult to explore and the site does a bad job of telling you that you already own something from these packs.
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[mattl] I wonder with these payment providers if someone would have the same issues running their own store with their own PayPal/Stripe accounts vs. using a platform
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gRegor Yeah [schmarty] was wondering about that earlier as well. Seems less likely or at least would take more time to get shut down by them. I think Stripe's terms are a bit more permissive on that, though I don't know specifics.
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[mattl] That’s something I’ve been working on at least… a hosted store but you supply your own payment providers. Instead of paying a fee per sale you just pay a monthly subscription.
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gRegor Nice. I have some experience with https://givebutter.com/ which does a similar thing, you hook it up to your Stripe account and then you can request payouts on-demand. Works pretty nicely.
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[KevinMarks] a whole new way to fail at web design - https://www.yourparty.uk/statement has some kind of embedded document previewer thingy for a 2 page document that should just be a web page
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[mattl] This is a Canva site. I’ve seen a bunch of these for little cafes and stuff.
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[mattl] https://www.canva.com/design/DAGuEK5VnT4/view
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[mattl] This was embedded in the page
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[KevinMarks] This is brilliant https://www.joshwcomeau.com/svg/friendly-introduction-to-svg/
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